Windows 11 - Here is everything you need to know - OUT NOW!!!

[LAwLz]

Details like this would drive me nuts:

 

 

The reason seems to be that a lot of Windows apps/programs don't use the acrylic function/look for Fluent Design. Instead they use what's called "mica", which snapshots your wallpaper, applies a blur filter to it and then applies that as an underlay to windows with the "mica material". Personally, I think it looks cheap and I honestly though it was a bug or something first, not an intentional design decision.

[RejZoR]

2 hours ago, LAwLz said:

Details like this would drive me nuts:

 

 

The reason seems to be that a lot of Windows apps/programs don't use the acrylic function/look for Fluent Design. Instead they use what's called "mica", which snapshots your wallpaper, applies a blur filter to it and then applies that as an underlay to windows with the "mica material". Personally, I think it looks cheap and I honestly though it was a bug or something first, not an intentional design decision.

Windows Vista, some 15 years ago had real-time ray traced 4K ultra definition transparency on windows. And now with all the uber hardware we have now, we're returning back to this screen space fakery? LOL? It's especially hilarious since all the low end systems are excluded from being able to even install Windows 11, so what the F Microsoft!?

 

I loved transparency in Vista and Windows 7. It made desktop feel premium. Now we're back to opaque windows and it just feels so dull again.

[suicidalfranco]

2 hours ago, LAwLz said:

Details like this would drive me nuts:

 

 

The reason seems to be that a lot of Windows apps/programs don't use the acrylic function/look for Fluent Design. Instead they use what's called "mica", which snapshots your wallpaper, applies a blur filter to it and then applies that as an underlay to windows with the "mica material". Personally, I think it looks cheap and I honestly though it was a bug or something first, not an intentional design decision.

Inb4 excuses like:

Ms huge metadata collection showed them that the majority of users can't see the difference between real transparency effect and a fake one

[GoodBytes]

Here is the doc of all materials of Win11 https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/apps/design/style/mica

 

I kinda thought you all knew this from MS Win11 announcement video that did. I guess I should have talk about it in the original post.

[Kilrah]

38 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

I loved transparency in Vista and Windows 7. It made desktop feel premium. Now we're back to opaque windows and it just feels so dull again.

The fashion company called Apple decided a decade ago that glass and transparency were ugly and outdated, so everyone had to follow suit... that's "design™" for you

[LAwLz]

24 minutes ago, Kilrah said:

The fashion company called Apple decided a decade ago that glass and transparency were ugly and outdated, so everyone had to follow suit... that's "design™" for you

But this is clearly Microsoft trying to replicate transparency, but doing it poorly.

It's not that Microsoft don't want things to be transparency. They are just doing it in what seems to be a stupid and bad way. I honestly thought it was a glitch until I found on that it's suppose to look that shitty.

[Radium_Angel]

So the current consensus is that WIn11 is still in Beta status, like when Win10 was released, or is it worse than that? Not that I have any intention to run Win11 ever (my CPU is "unsupported" and IMO win10 is rubbish) but I should keep up on the current OS world.

[GoodBytes]

1 hour ago, LAwLz said:

But this is clearly Microsoft trying to replicate transparency, but doing it poorly.

It's not that Microsoft don't want things to be transparency. They are just doing it in what seems to be a stupid and bad way. I honestly thought it was a glitch until I found on that it's suppose to look that shitty.

If they wanted actual transparency then there is acrylic (which some elements in the OS are using it, like the right-click menu). They decides that for window borders, they wanted 'mica' material. So, it was a stylistic choice in that regard. It was to give a subtle color to window borders and backgrounds.

 

Performance concerns by Microsoft are also at play, from my findings. In fact, several times, I recall, Microsoft saying, basically, "don't worry" rounded corners and mica effect don't consume performance... seems that they think that users still remember Vista concerns. Similarly, I recall, but can't find quickly, Microsoft reducing concerns of acrylic effect on performance.

 

So to me, they are avoiding Vista/Win7 Aero design (which many concerned about performance, including gamers, disabled it), and focus on battery life and ensure the least amount of performance impact from those features. This is why the "resolution" of the acrylic transparency and blur effect effect are low (not talking about the texture added to it), and pick the design choice for title bars to follow the mica material.

 

In the documentation, mica material is considered "opaque"

Quote

Mica is a new opaque material introduced in Windows 11

Source: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/apps/design/signature-experiences/materials

[Master Delta Chief]

4 hours ago, LAwLz said:

Details like this would drive me nuts:

 

 

The reason seems to be that a lot of Windows apps/programs don't use the acrylic function/look for Fluent Design. Instead they use what's called "mica", which snapshots your wallpaper, applies a blur filter to it and then applies that as an underlay to windows with the "mica material". Personally, I think it looks cheap and I honestly though it was a bug or something first, not an intentional design decision.

This honestly is one of the least important things to worry about. It should be more about whether the OS is stable and more performant. Design choices like these can be solved, but I wouldn't say this bothers me or anyone else for that matter by a lot.

[Forbidden Wafer]

4 hours ago, LAwLz said:

Details like this would drive me nuts:

 

 

The reason seems to be that a lot of Windows apps/programs don't use the acrylic function/look for Fluent Design. Instead they use what's called "mica", which snapshots your wallpaper, applies a blur filter to it and then applies that as an underlay to windows with the "mica material". Personally, I think it looks cheap and I honestly though it was a bug or something first, not an intentional design decision.

It looks like crap. Jesus, who invents this kind of stuff?

[Sarra]

3 minutes ago, Master Delta Chief said:

This honestly is one of the least important things to worry about. It should be more about whether the OS is stable and more performant. Design choices like these can be solved, but I wouldn't say this bothers me or anyone else for that matter by a lot.

Well, you aren't getting a stable, more performant OS, so people would hope for QOL improvements, which also are too much to ask for.

 

Windows 11 looks like an unholy trainwreck. ME/Vista 3.0?

 

The "security" in Windows 10 is such a joke, you basically have to tell Microsoft Defender to go f*** itself just to do bitcoin mining on your own hardware. I get that predatory mining is a problem, but not being able to 'click through' an exception, and have to go in and straight up disable Defender is a joke. Something tells me that it's going to be even more difficult to do this in Windows 11.

 

Then there's the absolute nightmare that is the Windows Settings, and from everything I've seen so far, it's even worse in Windows 11.

 

So, Microsoft basically took Windows 10, which they swore would be the 'final version of Windows', had a few unpaid interns tinker with it for a few months, had a Marketing manager decide how they could get the most money from it, put Advertisements in the Start menu, and are shipping it for... $140?

 

"Free upgrade" is so unfree, it's not even funny. EVERYTHING that Windows 10 did terribly, Windows 11 does worse. Best part is, Microsoft is probably still trying to figure out how to make Windows 11 a service, so you'll have to pay a monthly fee to use Notepad, or something. >_>

[RejZoR]

1 hour ago, LAwLz said:

But this is clearly Microsoft trying to replicate transparency, but doing it poorly.

It's not that Microsoft don't want things to be transparency. They are just doing it in what seems to be a stupid and bad way. I honestly thought it was a glitch until I found on that it's suppose to look that shitty.

On Linux, KDE in particular I love the Wobbly Windows effect. It's the best shit I've seen. If that was part of Windows, I'd forgive the lack of transparency. Instead, only wobbly thing Microsoft delivered is hardware support and quality of Windows 11 lol

[WolframaticAlpha]

21 hours ago, RejZoR said:

only wobbly thing Microsoft delivered is hardware support and quality of Windows 11 lol

don't mind me. I am just sharing that joke with everyone I know

[Kid.Lazer]

On 10/11/2021 at 4:48 PM, GoodBytes said:

• Ctrl + Shit + Esc
• Right-click on Start button > Task Manager
• Start > type: Task Manager (can show up by just typing "task" depends on your prior searches and selection) > Enter

Does WIN + X still work to bring up the right-click start menu? That's the method I use on Windows 10 (WIN + X > T for task manager, specifically)

  

On 10/12/2021 at 3:18 PM, linkboy said:

Microsoft has released the first cumulative update for Windows 11. Build 22000.258 has been released.

 

Not much was changed, but unsupported systems are receiving the update via Windows Update (installing it on my ThinkPad P50 right now).

 

Edit

Everything went smoothly and the update installed perfectly fine. My computer didn't blow up.

Interesting. I wonder if the officially-unsupported-systems-won't-get-updates stance was just a scare tactic to keep people from circumventing the security checks at initial install.

[GoodBytes]

22 minutes ago, Kid.Lazer said:

Does WIN + X still work to bring up the right-click start menu? That's the method I use on Windows 10 (WIN + X > T for task manager, specifically)

  

Yes, and menu item is selectable with keyboard arrow key / Enter

 

 

Quote

Interesting. I wonder if the officially-unsupported-systems-won't-get-updates stance was just a scare tactic to keep people from circumventing the security checks at initial install.

Microsoft never said that you won't have updates. They said that you are not entitled to update. In other words, legal wording to essentially say:

• Microsoft won't test the update with your unsupported hardware
• Microsoft Windows dev team won't be considering your unsupported CPU, so if an update causes to BSOD, then well, too bad.
• Microsoft Windows team may choose to not deliver the update (of any kind) if it was identified that whatever they did, they know before hand that it will cause compatibility issue (example: uses a CPU feature that only more modern CPUs have that yours doesn't, they know it won't work). So you have no right to ask for it.
• You have no right to ask for support for your issue or ask for update.
• If you have data loss, breaks your system, well, technically, by license, you have forfeited the permission to get any updates, so if you install it, have one of the mentioned issues, then you are on your own.

In other words: Use at your own risk.

[LAwLz]

25 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

• Microsoft Windows team may choose to not deliver the update (of any kind) if it was identified that whatever they did, they know before hand that it will cause compatibility issue (example: uses a CPU feature that only more modern CPUs have that yours doesn't, they know it won't work). So you have no right to ask for it.

Or if they just feel like it as well. Doesn't have to be that there is some particular issue they want to avoid or that they want to implement a new feature. They might just go "fuck it, let's screw over everyone who has a 1800X today" and then block the update for those particular people.

Not saying they will do that, but they have given themselves the leeway to do it if they want to.

[Radium_Angel]

2 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Not saying they will do that, but they have given themselves the leeway to do it if they want to.

Which I find extremely weird, given their huge push under Win10 to force updates on everyone i the name of security.

Now they are backtracking on that idea. I can't wait to see some massive botnet on officially not supported win11 boxes, all because MS did an about face on security updates.

[GoodBytes]

27 minutes ago, Radium_Angel said:

Which I find extremely weird, given their huge push under Win10 to force updates on everyone i the name of security.

Now they are backtracking on that idea. I can't wait to see some massive botnet on officially not supported win11 boxes, all because MS did an about face on security updates.

Different goals.

Windows 10 push was really because of the Store. Microsoft was aiming to make the OS free, and have this continuous app store revenue, mixed with UWP app support growth to help push Windows 10 Mobile. Sadly, for Microsoft, that has fallen flat in their face. 10 Mobile flopped, UWP didn't catch on, Store didn't get the required numbers by a long shot

 

Windows 11 goal is on security, user experiences and reliability. This is why the focus of the OS is more the interface, security features, requires modern CPUs who has many security flaws fixed, and systems supported by OEMs (for the UEFI updates and CPU microcode updates delivered via the UEFI updates). The goal is to compete against Google and Apple who both pushes the image that Windows is this insecure mess and provides this unreliable experience, and has this unwelcoming interface (due to the mess GUI it had: Age old Windows + Windows 7 + Windows 8 + Windows 10 Fluent Design). Windows 11 brings this unify interface, the problem is that because a good portion is unified, it makes the rest appear as a sore thumb. But anyways, that is a different topic, hopefully it puts pressure on MS to continue with their effort in finishing everything.

[Helpful Tech Witch]

On 10/5/2021 at 1:12 AM, bejamartins said:

Moore's law is dead for a while now and even though I overkilled with the graphics card I doubt I'll need a CPU upgrade until then, I didn't even overclocked it yet. If I do, ok, one machine.

mores law has nothing to do with performance.

Mores law has everything to do with transistor count. Transistor count and performance are not directly related. 

More transistors is more performance on the same arcetecture and cores, but thats not the same thing as mores law.

High end cpu performance will grow by 10% a year probably

On 10/4/2021 at 6:42 PM, StDragon said:

Direct ISO download - FINALLY!! I loathed using the Media Creation Tool. They should be providing ISO images for Windows 10 as well.

They do, you just have to use the setting to make the website thing your using a phone

[Radium_Angel]

2 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

Windows 11 goal is on security

Does not compute.

Either have a hard lock out on CPUs that don't meet their requirements, or let everyone play and keep everything patched.

By saying "no patches for you!" because your CPU is "too old" you make security *worse*

[Kilrah]

3 minutes ago, Radium_Angel said:

Does not compute.

Either have a hard lock out on CPUs that don't meet their requirements, or let everyone play and keep everything patched.

By saying "no patches for you!" because your CPU is "too old" you make security *worse*

I'd reckon it's pretty unlikely "no patch for you" will actually happen, it's just legalese preparation so that in case there really was a reason to they could, as well as likely some fearmongering to push that hardware upgrade a bit more... 

[Master Delta Chief]

4 minutes ago, Kilrah said:

I'd reckon it's pretty unlikely "no patch for you" will actually happen, it's just legalese preparation so that in case there really was a reason to they could, as well as likely some fearmongering to push that hardware upgrade a bit more... 

Not exactly a great time to 'push' people to get new hardware with all these shortages right now. And no, before someone says they didn't know this was going to happen, you are wrong. They had plenty of time to figure that part out.

[Radium_Angel]

6 minutes ago, Kilrah said:

I'd reckon it's pretty unlikely "no patch for you" will actually happen, it's just legalese preparation so that in case there really was a reason to they could, as well as likely some fearmongering to push that hardware upgrade a bit more... 

Fair point, but it's a rather curious they'd even bring this up...

Also, pushing hardware sales in the current economic climate is really tone deaf.

[GoodBytes]

17 minutes ago, Master Delta Chief said:

Not exactly a great time to 'push' people to get new hardware with all these shortages right now. And no, before someone says they didn't know this was going to happen, you are wrong. They had plenty of time to figure that part out.

Windows doesn't push hardware purchases. Most people don't even know Windows 11. They get the OS that came with their new PC.

[atxcyclist]

Reading about how badly Win 11 destroys Ryzen performance, I have gone into the UEFI in my 2700X system and disabled TPM. I don't want to be automatically upgraded to it. If I can find a way to disable it on my Ryzen 4800 laptop, I will do so as well.