Silicon Lottery... cashes out? Goes bust? Help me think of a play on words here, I don't gamble. Point is, they're done.

[SteveGrabowski0]

9 minutes ago, Zodiark1593 said:

I thought about grabbing a 4790K to drop in. Even on a locked board, 4.4 GHz Turbo is still mighty tasty. It’s not as though overclocking gave super high gains on the average chip anyway. Though it’s much too expensive and much too late in the game to touch now. 

You'd still need a board that supported multicore enhancement, which isn't a given even on Z97. For instance, I have an MSI Z97S Krait and it won't do multicore enhancement unless I roll back to an early BIOS. Without MCE I think a 4790k at stock will run 4.2 GHz on quad-core loads.

[Zodiark1593]

3 minutes ago, SteveGrabowski0 said:

You'd still need a board that supported multicore enhancement, which isn't a given even on Z97. For instance, I have an MSI Z97S Krait and it won't do multicore enhancement unless I roll back to an early BIOS. Without MCE I think a 4790k at stock will run 4.2 GHz on quad-core loads.

My Asus board supports MCE. So not a problem. Kind of a pointless feature on a board that can outright support overclockng though. Just peg the multiplier to the turbo speeds, and forget about it. 

[PianoPlayer88Key]

I remember a while ago I was thinking about using SL to delid my 4790K in my desktop, but I was waiting for Intel's warranty to expire (just in case something went wrong, I was guessing that if something did go awry, Intel wouldn't honor the warranty if their CPU had been "tampered with".)  But, when I saw that SL wasn't binning older CPUs like they did with newer ones, that put the kibosh on that plan.  

 

Hey I wonder if Herr Hartung has a delidding / binning service..... (and how much it would cost, although I'm guessing shipping my CPU to Deutschland would be both expensive and take quite a while.)

 

Also yeah, it's looking like there isn't as much overclocking headroom these days as there used to be a long time ago (although I wasn't really into it much if at all before 2015 when I got my 4790K - that's the first CPU I tried to overclock).  Yes, sometimes things can be helped with undervolting - for example I have my laptop's 6700K undervolted with an offset of about -140 or -150 mV or so, brings the power consumption down to about 65-70 W and temps down to about 65-70° under load.

 

BTW I don't start counting overclock percentage / headroom based on how far above base clock you're pushing it (which, for example, on an 11900K would be 3.5 GHz, and on a Ryzen 9 5950X would be 3.4 GHz).

For me, overclocking percentage STARTS once you've gotten the all-core frequency past where the official / automatic turbo modes max out the single-core frequency, when you're running an AVX load on the FPU, like Prime95.  So using the two aforementioned recent CPUs as an example, I don't consider an 11900K to be overclocked unless it's at 5.4 GHz with AVX on all cores (which would be a ~1.9% OC, and the 5950X needs to be 5.0 GHz with AVX on all cores to be any overclock at all, which is about 2% or so.  (Or does AMD allow internals smaller than 100 MHz - I thought I saw something like 25 MHz increments, in which case the threshold would be 4925 MHz or about 0.5% or so.)

 

As I hinted earlier, I wasn't involved with overclocking back in the Sandy Bridge / Core 2 Duo/Quad / Pentium 4 / III / Celeron 300A / 486 DX2 / earlier days, but... I think I have the idea based on stories I've heard, that many CPUs then could do what we today would call absolutely insane overclocks even for LN2, but for those were totally routine?
For example, I'm thinking that

• about 90-95% of samples of "good overclocker SKU CPUs" could
• push all cores (for CPUs that had more than 1 core) at least 100% above the maximum single-core frequency (for example if a chip ran at 2.2 GHz it could be pushed to 4.4 GHz)
• using only the stock cooler (or none at all if it was back in the 486 and earlier days when it didn't need one)
• without raising the voltage at all above stock (which I think would be 1.2V on a modern CPU, not sure what it was before Sandy Bridge; and btw if auto voltage was used, I'm thinking capping it at an absolute maximum of 1.2V or whatever was considered normal/stock for its generation)

And even the absolute worst duds could still push over 50% above stock.

 

But for those of you who actually did OC back then, what was it actually like?  (And especially if any of you helped your children or grandchildren with overclocking around the 486 DX2 (or were there also pencil overclocking or other mods before that?) to Celeron 300A or Core 2 Duo days ... what were things like when YOU got started? ) 

[Guest]

Fashions come and fashions go. Trend lines go up then they go down. It's an ever changing world. 

 

Silicon Lottery preyed on people that wanted that extra 36mhz faster chip lol. 

OK ok, Intel chip 5 ghz.. 5.1ghz not a lot of difference, lets just face it. We don't need to bin chips to find the average clocks when we all gather in the overclock forums. 

 

Overclocking (Manually) is an hobby for some. 

Others do it for gaming performance gains. 

 

The great thing about overclocking today.... Is EVERYONE is doing it!!! 

See where it says "base clock"? Do you see where your Cpu is actually running?

 

Yep you're over clocked. 

You and you and you and you and even you!

Well maybe not you. Probably should consider upgrading lol.

 

Not a first enthusiast site to go down. Won't be the last. 

 

RIP Silicon Lottery.

[Elisis]

3 minutes ago, ShrimpBrime said:

See where it says "base clock"? Do you see where your Cpu is actually running?

 

Yep you're over clocked. 

That's not an overclock. That's your CPU boosting, often fully within spec

[Guest]

Just now, Elisis said:

That's not an overclock. That's your CPU boosting fully within spec

I remember when base clock was the FSB and then you had a fixed multiplier and none of that boosting stuff happened. You actually had to buy an after market board and manually input all the settings to "Boost" performance. Some guys liked to run C-states/P-states enabled in conjunction with their overclock, essentially creating a "boosted" cpu performance that saves energy.

 

Well todays processor just do all that for you. Lazy bastards. 

Make OC great again! Ditch the boost crap and let me have my 500-1000mhz OC headroom again please!

[Mark Kaine]

1 hour ago, Elisis said:

That's not an overclock.

I think boost = oc, because you usually aren't guaranteed that "boost", its an "up to deal"

 

Nvidia does it, for GPUs, and they set the bar really low 

 

 

On the other hand 

1 hour ago, ShrimpBrime said:

let me have my 500-1000mhz OC headroom again please!

can't you oc most intels (amd probably not so much?) to like 1ghz above their boost clock though? Its just not as easy as it used to (i think), and *maybe* needs exotic cooling ... i still dont understand why they don't make liquid nitrogen AIOs btw... its simple,  its how rocket engines get cooled, how hard could it be for a tiny weeny 1.5v micro chip lol... (maybe the re-cooling is too difficult?)

 

Edit: "Using easily obtained materials you can liquefy nitrogen or air. The unit cools to -320F in under 50 minutes. The production rate is about 350 cc/hr."

 

So, yeah... is 350cc enough for 50 minutes of cpu cooling? 

[Derangel]

20 hours ago, HenrySalayne said:

Once these horribly tempered glass side panels are out of style, CableMods business model will crumble. But we are not there yet.

 

Dude, cases have had windows for something like two decades now, ever since the shift from desktop to tower cases happened and companies started selling more than giant beige rectangles. Tempered glass is a million times better than the acrylic that used to be all the rage. Windows will never go out of style, as long as there have been enthusiasts there have been people wanted to show off their hardware. Just because YOU don't personally like something does not make that something bad or mean that it should go away.

[porina]

AMD since around Zen+ killed worthwhile overclocking. Thank them for it.

 

Note my definition of overclocking follows Intel's. If you're operating the CPU as manufacturer intends, it is NOT overclocking. Intel do not consider turbo or power limit adjustment as overclocking. Tinkering with multipliers and/or voltages is overclocking. AMD are more restrictive, in that they don't even let you increase power limit without calling it overclocking.

 

IMO if you're not getting a demonstrable 10% increase in performance, why waste that time and effort where the likely result is lower power efficiency and stability?

 

The only reasons for CPU OC to me are if you only run one workload and don't mind optimising for that even if you become unstable in other use cases, or for competitive reasons. Still, I don't bother with hwbot these days since I was never a fan of pay2win.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Mark Kaine said:

I think boost = oc, because you usually aren't guaranteed that "boost", its an "up to deal"

 

Nvidia does it, for GPUs, and they set the bar really low 

 

 

On the other hand 

can't you oc most intels (amd probably not so much?) to like 1ghz above their boost clock though? Its just not as easy as it used to (i think), and *maybe* needs exotic cooling ... i still dont understand why they don't make liquid nitrogen AIOs btw... its simple,  its how rocket engines get cooled, how hard could it be for a tiny weeny 1.5v micro chip lol... (maybe the re-cooling is too difficult?)

 

Edit: "Using easily obtained materials you can liquefy nitrogen or air. The unit cools to -320F in under 50 minutes. The production rate is about 350 cc/hr."

 

So, yeah... is 350cc enough for 50 minutes of cpu cooling? 

1ghz? No, I cannot hit 5.7ghz (1000mhz over max boost of 4.7ghz) on any ambient cooling. Best I can do is 5.1ghz. 5.4ghz on the Geothermal and LN2 got me to 6ghz. 8700K

 

If OC from the "base clock" and not over the boost clock, then yes. That much head room is there.

 

Not sure. My dewar holds 22L. So I've never taken the measurement of how much LN2 it takes to keep a cpu at -175c for 50 minutes. Interesting question though.

[Mark Kaine]

8 hours ago, James Evens said:

No?

That's just 350 mL per hour or in other words a small dewer.

Yeah, that doesn't seem enough but I was just wondering... i think if someone really wanted they could make this, depends on the size needed, and I also guess "1 liter" or so would be enough, I guess the "cooler" would probably be about as big of a box like a pc... or a fridge...  and you'd also probably get a lot of exhaust gas... it would be glorious!  But they probably think it's too dangerous/ no market (which might be true!)

 

 

3 hours ago, ShrimpBrime said:

1ghz? No, I cannot hit 5.7ghz (1000mhz over max boost of 4.7ghz) on any ambient cooling. Best I can do is 5.1ghz. 5.4ghz on the Geothermal and LN2 got me to 6ghz. 8700K

Ah, yeah, I was just going from top of my head what I remembered... seems above 6.0 only with *exotic* cooling ie ln2 then.

 

But it *is* possible.  : p

 

 

 

btw, whats "cascade" cooling? 

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

Yeah, that doesn't seem enough but I was just wondering... i think if someone really wanted they could make this, depends on the size needed, and I also guess "1 liter" or so would be enough, I guess the "cooler" would probably be about as big of a box like a pc... or a fridge...  and you'd also probably get a lot of exhaust gas... it would be glorious!  But they probably think it's too dangerous/ no market (which might be true!)

 

 

Ah, yeah, I was just going from top of my head what I remembered... seems above 6.0 only with *exotic* cooling ie ln2 then.

 

But it *is* possible.  : p

 

 

 

 

btw, whats "cascade" cooling? 

Cascade cooling is using 2 single stage units.

One unit chills the other's condensor to lower the temps at the evap side. 

 

It takes quite a bit of power. DryIce is cheaper.

 

[_crazy_crazy_]

Cascade cooling...... that brings back memories xD long nights around my p4c800 deluxe + p4 3.0 sl6wk and the  replacement a8n32-dlx and opteron 185 ... fun times

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, _crazy_crazy_ said:

Cascade cooling...... that brings back memories xD long nights around my p4c800 deluxe + p4 3.0 sl6wk and the  replacement a8n32-dlx and opteron 185 ... fun times

I rocked the a8n32 sli Deluxe and opty 165. Good stuff.

[Mark Kaine]

59 minutes ago, ShrimpBrime said:

Cascade cooling

I just looked it up, the single stage thing looks pretty much like a  DIY version of the LN2 AIO I envisioned.  just put an LN2 from air extractor on it, make it as small as possible, put lots of flashy LEDs on it for show = $$$

 

xP 

[jasonvp]

20 hours ago, HenrySalayne said:

They commercialized the process of getting a whole lot of CPUs and testing the overclock capabilities of every single one of them. It's not a rip-off. If you don't have a gigantic stash of cash, you cannot do it by yourself. 

Yep.  I still have one of their 7900X chips from 4+ years ago.  In fact I bought it directly through them vs another retailer.  They'd already de-lidded it, and certified it to 4.7GHz on all cores.  I never once had an issue with it.  I just had to feed it their prescribed core voltage, and keep it cool.

It was a nice "lazy man's" way to get a binned CPU.

 

[AnonymousGuy]

Pepperidge Farm remembers the E8400 legend Core2 that was 3.0Ghz base clock (boost didn't exist) and you could easily OC it to 4.2Ghz or more.  

 

Those days are long behind us.  I think I have my 10850K "only" 5.1Ghz which is just about where the boost clock is anyways and my 3090 I only can do like +75 on the core because it already boosts so high.  

 

Oh and their entire business model was doomed to begin with.  You can't sell binned CPUs at a high enough cost to recover the volume that you need to process to find the good ones.  I've bought 25 of them at a time and only 1 was truly special low leakage high silicon speed.  Because Intel already pre-bins shit and uses the low leakage stuff in laptops and whatnot.