A new version of windows is coming!!!

[Giganthrax]

Wasnt MS working on a chromeOS-like operating system because chromebooks are actually taking a part of their market share? Maybe this new OS is it?

[GoodBytes]

16 minutes ago, Giganthrax said:

Wasnt MS working on a chromeOS-like operating system because chromebooks are actually taking a part of their market share? Maybe this new OS is it?

No. What you are referring is Windows 10X (not official name, just internal name), which was a new OS all together based off Windows 10 (the new technologies introduced in Windows 10. Had 0 legacy support). Microsoft aim was to have a new OS that is adaptable to new form factor systems, like dual screen devices and foldable screen devices. It just happened that the OS was very lean as a result, and made Microsoft also use it as an OS to compete against ChromeOS.

 

This "new version of Windows" is not a new version of Windows. It is project Sun Valley. It is updated version of Windows 10, which aims to introduce the full implementation of Fluent Design across the board (well the most the can, as... well... legacy stuff is in the way, ensuring that full implementation would be impossible). This project was already executed in Windows 10X. So now it is coming to Windows 10.

 

Now, if Microsoft wants to call it Windows 11, or Windows 10 21H2 Update, or Windows 10 October 2021 Update... that is their call.

Some suspect that they will call it Windows 11, because it will bring a lot of front-end GUI changes, and sees it as an opportunity to "turn the page on Windows 10", and generate hype on Windows branding. Which is not wrong... I mean look at the reactions here.
 

[WolframaticAlpha]

5 hours ago, Chunchunmaru_ said:

Why should they switch to an old school monolithic kernel? That's so 80's
Their kernel architecture is let's say "modern" and fine as it is, and a sudden change would require a massive rewrite of all the drivers and basically making a new OS, I would concentrate making a finally stable update architecture which doesn't messes up something every ******* time and maybe more filesystem compatibility and WSL integration

 

hey, hey. Microlithic kernels have their disadvantages. Don't trash on monolithic kernels.

[GoodBytes]

If someone wants an early sneak peek:

Spoiler

Today:
*.msi setup file icons. Only avail in 32x32 in size.

Coming up version:


Today:


Coming up:

(Work still in progress. )

 

[SolarNova]

One can dream of a new Windows OS that doesnt include exorbitant amounts of telemetry / data gathering, reduced user control, apps, adds, and 'features' so interwoven into the OS that removing them breaks everything........ but this is 'now' ..and im not naive enough to think thats actually coming anytime soon.

[GoodBytes]

18 minutes ago, SolarNova said:

One can dream of a new Windows OS that doesnt include exorbitant amounts of telemetry / data gathering, reduced user control, apps, adds, and 'features' so interwoven into the OS that removing them breaks everything........ but this is 'now' ..and im not naive enough to think thats actually coming anytime soon.

Yea. We have that already. You have many Linux distros that offer this. 

[Quackers101]

1 hour ago, GoodBytes said:

If someone wants an early sneak peek:

-snip-

Icons be, eeh??? *points to the more confusing ones*

oh well, windows pinball is what they should add back.

[LAwLz]

2 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

If someone wants an early sneak peek:

  Reveal hidden contents

Today:
*.msi setup file icons. Only avail in 32x32 in size.

Coming up version:


Today:


Coming up:

(Work still in progress. )

 

The icons looks nice. Slightly flatter and more modern versions of what's already there.

[Nowak]

5 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

It will be called Windows 10 Series Home and Windows 10 Series Pro

Or just simply "Windows"

[soldier_ph]

On 5/25/2021 at 7:28 PM, Bratstech said:

Next generation of Data collection

FTFY

[Donut417]

11 hours ago, Chunchunmaru_ said:

Their kernel architecture is let's say "modern"

The NT Kernel was released in 1993, I wouldn’t say it’s modern. Yeah they have done work to modernize it but it’s still based on a kernel from 1993. 

[GoodBytes]

2 hours ago, LAwLz said:

The icons looks nice. Slightly flatter and more modern versions of what's already there.

I agree. What also got my interest is that Microsoft seem to do a lot of effort this time around to really update old icons that were never touched since Windows 2000 or XP.  I mean they have a lot of work today; we can see still some old icons, but so far so good. I hope it won't just magically stop there but rather really continue to really dive in and update every single old icon.

[GoodBytes]

1 hour ago, Donut417 said:

The NT Kernel was released in 1993, I wouldn’t say it’s modern. Yeah they have done work to modernize it but it’s still based on a kernel from 1993. 

Nah. It has completely changed since. It still follows many of Windows's philosophies/school of thought, but it is really different under. 

I mean Microsoft evolution of NT is like rebuilding a home while you still live in it.

The foundation has drastically changed, and nearly everything on top.

 

So, I guess... you can say "Oh it has only been renovated"... all depending where you draw the line between renovation and rebuilding. Does one really need to demolish and restart from scratch to be considered a new kernel...? or reworking parts over time covering everything can be considered new?

[Donut417]

2 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

Does one really need to demolish and restart from scratch to be considered a new kernel...? o

In my opinion yes. Granted you might loose legacy support. But continuing to "Renovate" code that has its origins in the early 90s, some times that might we a waste of time. Some times you just need to bulldoze and start over. 

[GoodBytes]

59 minutes ago, Donut417 said:

In my opinion yes. Granted you might loose legacy support. But continuing to "Renovate" code that has its origins in the early 90s, some times that might we a waste of time. Some times you just need to bulldoze and start over. 

Well, you choose. Do you want your programs and games working or not? The market, at multiple times, indicated, that they want that support, and not willing to change.

[Donut417]

3 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Well, you choose. Do you want your programs and games working or not? The market, at multiple times, indicated, that they want that support, and not willing to change.

 

Which is why the experience of Windows 10 has been shitty. Botched installations. Horrid driver support. Updates that continually break shit. I only use Windows for gaming, I wont day any-other activities on my Windows machine. If it wasn't for my Steam library Id probably go back to consoles. 

[Beerzerker]

8 hours ago, SolarNova said:

One can dream of a new Windows OS that doesnt include exorbitant amounts of telemetry / data gathering, reduced user control, apps, adds, and 'features' so interwoven into the OS that removing them breaks everything........ but this is 'now' ..and im not naive enough to think thats actually coming anytime soon.

And all that's why I'm sticking with Linux.
Didn't go for it when Win 10 appeared and I'm glad I didn't. Kept Win 7 around for a few years and finally made the move to Linux and it's been great. There are a few things I still use windows for but it's all on Win 7 and that's fine by me.

One thing I refused about Win 10 was to be a BETA tester for the OS and it's been said before if you use Win 10, that's exactly what you are.
Broken stuff with updates and everytime an update came out there was a surge in reported problems on what and how it broke stuff that did work before, resetting preferences, settings and so on......

Control over updates that was diminished and even eliminated at one point, to the tune of it becoming an IT guy's nightmare because it was always breaking stuff with each update. I can't count the number of times the IT guys were sweating it when update time came around, wondering if and what would be broken and the boss doesn't want to hear about all that you know.
And that annoying as hell "Cortana Thing" you just coudn't seem to get rid of.
I can only see more of the same with it when the new version comes out - Maybe even worse but lets hope not.

I mean if you're happy with it, good for you and enjoy but I'm sticking with Linux here.

[Master Delta Chief]

55 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Well, you choose. Do you want your programs and games working or not? The market, at multiple times, indicated, that they want that support, and not willing to change.

You'd expect that the market calls for innovation rather than continuously regressing in terms of software. Like it's very important that backwards compatibility exists on operating systems (for like games or professional software), but it's also important that you don't stay behind when improvements are possible. Just got to take it easy and make sure that transitions are possible for customers. 

[Kisai]

5 hours ago, Donut417 said:

 

Which is why the experience of Windows 10 has been shitty. Botched installations. Horrid driver support. Updates that continually break shit. I only use Windows for gaming, I wont day any-other activities on my Windows machine. If it wasn't for my Steam library Id probably go back to consoles. 

It's the mindset that Windows should work like Linux, breaking things with every update for no benefit, which is why people still use Windows or Mac OS X.

 

Look at the outrage every time something people use breaks on Windows. Even though it's clearly legacy "crap" like printers that results in the howling for fixes from businesses.

 

What I would like from Windows, is for things to stop changing. Why are .NET frameworks being patched every two weeks. Like it's ultimately frustrating when I see 16 iOS software programs needing an update every 2-3 days, and it's like "is software really this awful today, or did previous generations of software just sold us 'patches' as new versions before?" 

 

I'd like for most software to not push more than one update per month unless there is a critical security 0-day fix. I don't want new, untested, functionality that results in hundreds of updates in a year. It's going to suck for the flash memory wear to keep updating things this frequently.

 

 

[Mihle]

15 minutes ago, Kisai said:

It's the mindset that Windows should work like Linux, breaking things with every update for no benefit, which is why people still use Windows or Mac OS X.

 

Look at the outrage every time something people use breaks on Windows. Even though it's clearly legacy "crap" like printers that results in the howling for fixes from businesses.

 

What I would like from Windows, is for things to stop changing. Why are .NET frameworks being patched every two weeks. Like it's ultimately frustrating when I see 16 iOS software programs needing an update every 2-3 days, and it's like "is software really this awful today, or did previous generations of software just sold us 'patches' as new versions before?" 

 

I'd like for most software to not push more than one update per month unless there is a critical security 0-day fix. I don't want new, untested, functionality that results in hundreds of updates in a year. It's going to suck for the flash memory wear to keep updating things this frequently.

 

Software have to move forward too, you can't stay stuck forever. 

[Kisai]

1 minute ago, Mihle said:

 

Software have to move forward too, you can't stay stuck forever. 

Tell me, what reason Microsoft could needed to come out with Vista, 7, 8, and 10 for when they could have just "patched" XP

 

There is "this is a necessary security improvement" and then there is "this is just UI vomit"

 

[jagdtigger]

22 hours ago, Chunchunmaru_ said:

Why should they switch to an old school monolithic kernel?

Linux monolithic, thats rich.... 

[Mihle]

1 hour ago, Kisai said:

Tell me, what reason Microsoft could needed to come out with Vista, 7, 8, and 10 for when they could have just "patched" XP

 

There is "this is a necessary security improvement" and then there is "this is just UI vomit"

 

I would not have liked to live in a world where windows still worked like Windows XP, or worse, windows 98. (with security updates)

 

Not saying windows 10 is ideal by any means tho... I don't think windows 10 is the best it could be by any means.

[GoodBytes]

On 5/28/2021 at 2:54 AM, Mihle said:

I would not have liked to live in a world where windows still worked like Windows XP, or worse, windows 98. (with security updates)

I agree. My productivity would be drastically reduced. I think people have selective memory of XP (and older version of Windows... or any other OS), and they forget how limited or bad things where in comparison. 

 

Looking at XP:

• No search & launch a program (can't do, say: [Win]+fi+[Enter], to run Firefox).
• Horrible high-DPI support (even icons were limited to 48x48 in size)
• No video codecs. Had to resort to sketchy, system breaking codec packs
• Can't move items on the task bar
• No task bar item pinning
• No task bar quick jump shortcut (W+#)
• No jump list
• No Location aware printing
• Task bar items can't be regrouped
• No Aero snap
• No Aero peek
• No automatic phone and camera recognotion
• No WSL
• Horrible and limited Command Prompt console/terminal
• Horrible 64-bit CPU support (a good first try... but needed some serious work)
• CPU rendered graphical user interface
• Single core based OS
• No native support of PCI-E (until later and even then, it was iffy)
• No support for NVMe
• No native support for AHCI
• No support for TRIM
• No USB 3.0 and up native support
• No per app volume control
• Limited support for hardware power states
• CPU power state was based on CPU best guess, and no communication between OS and CPU
• Limited Task Manager
• Slow search
• File Explorer had IE integrated and brougth all associated security issues
• No UAC
• Improper "Run As" feature
• No instant sync with Active Directory server for file sync of documents. It happens on login and out, providing a slow login/out experience in a company environment (more files, or larger files that occurred changes the slower it gets)
• Horrible memory management system, pagefiling everything even if you have plenty of free RAM
• Slower program startup
• Chicken wire has less holes than the security holes of Windows XP, requiring a full rework of the OS (which Microsoft knew, and is what kicked off the Longhorn project in the first place)
• Takes ages to install even on the latest XP supported hardware
• Slows down after 6 or so month, requiring a re-install, due to having no auto-maintenance mechanism in place
• Horrible, always breaking Windows Update system (was using this hacked up IE integrated monstrosity thing)
• Moronic update system ("Let me download this update.... let me now install it... oh, this account is not administrator, and not on an enterprise environment... update failed! Cancelling. Oh look! A new update... let me download it.... "... was fun time getting those ISP bills. Thanks XP!)
• Networking worked when it wanted to work
• Map Drive would always try to connect
• Horrible wireless network manager, complete with needing to enter wireless password twice
• No touch support (mouse emulator with touch doesn't count, and it didn't even have a proper on-screen keyboard)
• No pen support (again, mouse emulation with pen doesn't count)
• No BitLocker
• No Task Preview
• Useless Alt+Tab panel
• Didn't have the capability to reconnect on a VPN if the connection is momentarily lost.

I think you get the point...

 

[LAwLz]

7 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

I agree. My productivity would be drastically reduced. I think people have selective memory of XP (and older version of Windows... or any other OS), and they forget how limited or bad things where in comparison. 

 

Looking at XP:

-snip-

I think you get the point... but I can go on.

 

I'm surprised you didn't mention one of the biggest drawbacks of Windows XP.

No (decent) 64bit version.

 

The 64bit version they did release was awful. Anandtech had a review of it if anyone is interested.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/1235/

 

Check out that gaming performance.

Compared to the 32bit version of Windows XP:

51% lower performance in Quake 3.

30% lower performance in Spliter Cell.

19-21% lower performance in Unreal Tournament 2003.

19% lower performance in Halo.

Although as Anandtech wrote at the time, a lot of that probably had to do with poor driver support.