Google plans to start taking it's 30% cut from all in-app purchases

[Tieox]

Simply put -

[CTR640]

You gotta thank Epic for this bullshit. Seriously, fuck Epic.

 

And what does it mean for Netflix users? From €10.99 to €13.99 monthly for the 2nd tier?

[Commodus]

4 minutes ago, CTR640 said:

You gotta thank Epic for this bullshit. Seriously, fuck Epic.

 

And what does it mean for Netflix users? From €10.99 to €13.99 monthly for the 2nd tier?

It might, depending on how Google interprets things... I believe Netflix might be allowed to say "hey, go sign up here," but if you want to sign up in-app it could cost you extra.

[CTR640]

1 minute ago, Commodus said:

It might, depending on how Google interprets things... I believe Netflix might be allowed to say "hey, go sign up here," but if you want to sign up in-app it could cost you extra.

I still don't understand that. What if registred directly from Netflix their website? That's what I did back 4 years ago.

So far I'm curious on the monthly subscription costs.

[PCGuy_5960]

5 hours ago, RedRound2 said:

I get where developers like floatplane comes from. But Epic, even though they went in like a holy angels for this small developer, was never the best giant to poke the bear. What is their argument? They want 100% margin on their profitable V-bucks instead of 70%? And it’s not like Epic doesn’t give their 30% to Sony and Microsoft. They have no precedence and zero sympathy points

 

Like if the argument was that small developers couldn’t make their products competitive due to overhead cause by 30%, it probably fair better in court. 

I just want to point out that epic actually reduced v-bucks prices by 20% (iirc) on all platforms permanently when they started this whole thing, so I don't think they are only doing this for the money.

[lazypc]

4 hours ago, AluminiumTech said:

I can't speak for Android but on IOS that would be cos they literally don't let you sign up for an account except on the website.

None of Netflix's money comes through Google or Apple cos Netflix doesn't do in app payments.

 

Spotify as a matter of principle didn't used to but they started again doing so at one point. So now their IOS subscriptions are less profitable than elsewhere. Which I mean makes sense but it's still stupid that Apple and Google get away with these blatant monopolies.

Testing the theory on Netflix it does appear you can subscribe using in app payments upon account creation, not sure about updating existing accounts if the account was originally created on the website and billing info needed to be updated or the person tried to resub.

 

Also something I didn't know existed was I could not take a screenshot of this due to Android security policy.

 

[Kisai]

3 hours ago, Kierax said:

Simply put -

No, that's the political tab on any forum.

 

Apple/Google/Sony/Nintendo/Microsoft/Tesla/Ford/etc on-device stores vs Epic is just Epic wanting the entire cake for itself. Tencent owns slightly less than half of Epic, and you could be sure that this is a money-chasing move.

 

The consumer doesn't win regardless of the outcome unless some regulation comes into effect that either:

a) caps the commission rate, seeing it similar to credit card commissions, in which case the status quo otherwise remains the same with third party stores not being allowed on these platforms

b) regulation of stores themselves, which means that every IAP has to be approved by government oversight much like rate changes on utilities. If it's secretly-gambling, or secretly money laundering, the app developer gets sued out of existance. 

 

The entire reason why you can't do certain things with credit card payments is because it enables money laundering or gambling. If regulation comes into play, all these per-game premium currencies go away, because they are used for money laundering in any game that has a trading/market-board mechanic. Sometimes it's not very obvious.

 

[Commodus]

3 hours ago, CTR640 said:

I still don't understand that. What if registred directly from Netflix their website? That's what I did back 4 years ago.

So far I'm curious on the monthly subscription costs.

If you signed up on Netflix's site, you'll still pay that rate. You'd only pay more if you signed up through the Android app (or iOS app, for that matter).

[AlTech]

1 hour ago, lazypc said:

snip

Okay. Well on IOS they don't let you do that.

[NotTheFirstDaniel]

Is this a case of Google seeing Epic "losing" the suit and doubling down on their own payment provider? I would assume that this decision probably took some time.

 

Also, why isn't Epic going on Google as hard as they are Apple? I think they have a much easier case against Google. With Apple, not only have they never allowed 3rd party app stores legitimately, they put their own software on their own hardware, and their hardware only, so Apple could justify that iOS users are accustomed to the "walled garden", or even go as far to say that they came to iOS because of it. With Google, they don't disallow 3rd Party app stores, but they tried their damn hardest to get the Epic Games Store off of the Note (? I think it launched on that). Could that not be considered anti-competitive? That they're using their leverage on other OEMs to block app stores they don't like, and then using the advantage they have to force everyone to go through their payment provider? Google looks more like Microsoft's Anti-Trust case than Apple does right now (using that because that's what people are comparing Apple's case to), and I think it would be easier for Epic to call Google Play a monopoly than Apple's App Store.

[SpaceGhostC2C]

16 hours ago, lazypc said:

I forgot to mention that I absolutely love that the title of Google's Blog article announcing this is "Listening to Developer Feedback to Improve Google Play"

- Google, what do you make of the loud clash between Apple and Epic, now joined by an alliance of developers, regarding the app store?

-...

-...

-... that developers want a mandatory 30% cut taken from them on every penny they make? 

[Commodus]

1 hour ago, SpaceGhostC2C said:

- Google, what do you make of the loud clash between Apple and Epic, now joined by an alliance of developers, regarding the app store?

-...

-...

-... that developers want a mandatory 30% cut taken from them on every penny they make? 

I can't help but think this epitomizes the gap between how some Android fans (definitely not all) see Google and how Google actually behaves. They see Google as the champion of choice and openness; Google, meanwhile, isn't much different than Apple in some respects... hell, it reportedly squashed Epic's deals with phone makers to offer Fortnite outside of the Play Store.

[8uhbbhu8]

Yeah Google has every right to do this. Sucks for the small developers where that 30% can actually make a massive difference but thats just the cost of business.

[Mark Kaine]

1 hour ago, Commodus said:

I can't help but think this epitomizes the gap between how some Android fans (definitely not all) see Google and how Google actually behaves. They see Google as the champion of choice and openness; Google, meanwhile, isn't much different than Apple in some respects... hell, it reportedly squashed Epic's deals with phone makers to offer Fortnite outside of the Play Store.

well yeah google is certainly anti competitive in many things, just like any other global multi billion dollar enterprise, however, android is really more open, you can sideload no issues, and "jailbreaking" is often really easy too, you don't even need a google account to use an android phone as far I'm aware. 

 

And you can get fortnite on many stores so I don't think that Iast point is true...

 

Honestly I do think there's good reasons to have an iphone not everyone uses modern devices the same way but I also believe apple overdoes it quite a bit with their rules regarding the app store  Sure their product, their rules... as long it isn't actually against any laws, which is up to debate, and not just by Timmy Sweeney apparently.

[Energycore]

They decided to wait for the perfect time to start taking exactly 30%.

[Bombastinator]

The only way I can see the epic lawsuit making sense for epic is they have a product that has crested.  Fewer and fewer people have been playing fortnight year on year for some time now.  Executives at large companies like this are paid according to whether the stock price goes up or down, which is affected by whether profits are rising or falling. Getting a bump from increased Vbuck revenue could reduce or eliminate the slide.  I think this is even more narrow than epic.  I think this is about executive pay packages at epic. I don’t think there is any sort of white knight behavior here.  It wouldn’t surprise me t all if many small groups are hurt badly.  This isn’t even about if epic does well.  This is about next year’s bonus for like 5 people. 

[Jet_ski]

So Epic not only messed up their own thing, they created a precedent that has emboldened Google to feel it’s safe enough for them to do this in the middle of an antitrust case against them! What an Epic Failure.

 

Phone manufacturers would be wise to form a group and develop their own collective App Store. Otherwise, soon they are all going to be working for Google.

[RejZoR]

10 hours ago, AluminiumTech said:

Okay. Well on IOS they don't let you do that.

It does in some cases. I had Netflix way before iPhone. When I downloaded Netflix on iOS and logged in, Apple gets 0€ from me. Netflix bills me directly every month bypassing Apple entirely. Same with ProtonMail, which I'll talk about a bit later.

 

To make it fair for everyone it should simply be a requirement that apps on whatever store have payment option through their system, but shouldn't be forbidden to pay directly to provider if you choose to do so, but not directly through the app on given app store. You have to go on your own to the vendor and do it there. Some people just can't be bothered and just do it directly through the app. But some would prefer to go through the vendor itself. Not everyone take the cut and have same prices everywhere. ProtonMail for example is more expensive if you buy it on App Store because they can't offset the costs taken by the App Store. I also signed up for it long before I got iPhone, paying directly to ProtonMail.

[Guest]

On 9/29/2020 at 7:51 PM, lewdicrous said:

Oligopoly ftw!

Duopoly. Let’s face it Huawei’s OS is just going to go the same way as Bada. 

[suicidalfranco]

Just now, RorzNZ said:

Duopoly. Let’s face it Huawei’s OS is just going to go the same way as Bada. 

who knows, with the amount of overreach the Chinese government has over their population, might have another KaiOS on their hands: completely unknown to the western audience, vast userbase in the rest of the world (or just China in the case of Harmony)

[Lord Vile]

2 hours ago, Jet_ski said:

So Epic not only messed up their own thing, they created a precedent that has emboldened Google to feel it’s safe enough for them to do this in the middle of an antitrust case against them! What an Epic Failure.

 

Phone manufacturers would be wise to form a group and develop their own collective App Store. Otherwise, soon they are all going to be working for Google.

Phone makers only make money from hardware sales why would they care about what google does with he play store? 

[lazypc]

8 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

Phone makers only make money from hardware sales why would they care about what google does with he play store? 

So they could run Ads or push sponsored Apps to the top of the list for money. Sell your data to marketing. Offer built in payment processing to app developers for the low low price of a 29.99% cut giving the developer a extra penny for every hundred dollars of in app purchases vs Google/Apple.

 

There are opportunities for someone willing to develop an alternative app store, and it has been tried before by even big names like Samsung, but most don't gain much traction.

[Lord Vile]

1 minute ago, lazypc said:

So they could run Ads or push sponsored Apps to the top of the list for money. Sell your data to marketing. Offer built in payment processing to app developers for the low low price of a 29.99% cut giving the developer a extra penny for every hundred dollars of in app purchases vs Google/Apple.

 

There are opportunities for someone willing to develop an alternative app store, and it has been tried before by even big names like Samsung, but most don't gain much traction.

And they're gonna spend the billions it takes to develop, maintain, optimise and moderate an OS that noone will want to use? 

[AlTech]

1 hour ago, RejZoR said:

It does in some cases. I had Netflix way before iPhone. When I downloaded Netflix on iOS and logged in, Apple gets 0€ from me. Netflix bills me directly every month bypassing Apple entirely. Same with ProtonMail, which I'll talk about a bit later.

Yeah I know.

 

I was talking about Netflix not letting you sign up and pay through the IOS app.

1 hour ago, RejZoR said:

To make it fair for everyone it should simply be a requirement that apps on whatever store have payment option through their system, but shouldn't be forbidden to pay directly to provider if you choose to do so, but not directly through the app on given app store. You have to go on your own to the vendor and do it there. Some people just can't be bothered and just do it directly through the app. But some would prefer to go through the vendor itself. Not everyone take the cut and have same prices everywhere. ProtonMail for example is more expensive if you buy it on App Store because they can't offset the costs taken by the App Store. I also signed up for it long before I got iPhone, paying directly to ProtonMail.

I would imagine the 99.9% + would not be bothered.

[lazypc]

2 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

And they're gonna spend the billions it takes to develop, maintain, optimise and moderate an OS that noone will want to use? 

Sorry if I misled, I really wasn't pushing toward phone manufacturers building a new OS. I don't see that being a profitable venture either, at least in Western markets. Especially considering the success of Windows Phones or Linux on phones. I really just meant alternative app stores on Android, or even on iOS which would seem to be something Epic Games may be trying for.

 

Sidenote I did own a Windows Phone 8, that migrated to the "10" version. I actually did like it a lot, stability was great but without developers willing to bring their apps into that ecosystem there was never going to be a chance for it to succeed.