Can AMD compete?

[DeagleMaster]

Is there any way AMD can compete with the upcoming RTX 3000 series. I know that the rumored Big Navi card will be competitive in price and performance, but  Amd seems to lack behind in technologies. Dlss and RTX seems like huge selling points for Nvidia and Amd doesn't seem to have an answer for this. It would be great if Amd could be competitive, but is this a possible reality?

[GDRRiley]

AMD will have its version or RTX.

they will be

[Letgomyleghoe]

I don’t think it will compete, but i think it will serve the purpose of a lower cost mid tier card, kinda like the 5700xt was, a 2070 super tier card at a much cheaper price.

 

anyways I am excited to get myself a 6900xt

[Prodigy_Smit]

1 minute ago, Letgomyleghoe said:

6900xt

I don't have a system that I can put it in but if that is a card's name you damn well know I am buying it.

[DeagleMaster]

6 minutes ago, GDRRiley said:

AMD will have its version or RTX.

they will be

Hopefully soon. Maybe even an answer to DLSS

[Drama Lama]

Just wait and see 

 

 

5 minutes ago, DeagleMaster said:

Amd seems to lack behind in technologies.

They seem a bit to me ( if anyone knows better than me please quote and correct )

 

while AMD is a bit struggling to develop high end cards that are more powerful than those by Nvidia. And even stable drivers for their cards, Nvidia is researching things like AI upscaling

,  tensor cores and have their own programming language with cuda.

but a reason for that is probably that Nvidia has a lot more budget 

[DeagleMaster]

1 minute ago, Smit Devrukhkar said:

I don't have a system that I can put it in but if that is a card's name you damn well know I am buying it.

A touch of marketing genius

[Entropy.]

9 minutes ago, DeagleMaster said:

Is there any way AMD can compete with the upcoming RTX 3000 series. I know that the rumored Big Navi card will be competitive in price and performance, but  Amd seems to lack behind in technologies. Dlss and RTX seems like huge selling points for Nvidia and Amd doesn't seem to have an answer for this. It would be great if Amd could be competitive, but is this a possible reality?

AMD claims that big navi will have Ray tracing, and the current rumors state their flagship card will compete with the (also rumored) 3070S/ti with about 16gb of vram. It's price is rumored to be $549-$599, and performance between the 3070 and 3080. Obviously, this is totally subjective to change as these are just rumors. 

[DeagleMaster]

1 minute ago, Drama Lama said:

Just wait and see 

 

 

They seem a bit to me ( if anyone knows better than me please quote and correct )

 

while AMD is a bit struggling to develop high end cards that are more powerful than those by Nvidia. And even stable drivers for their cards, Nvidia is researching things like AI upscaling

,  tensor cores and have their own programming language with cuda.

but a reason for that is probably that Nvidia has a lot more budget 

It honestly seems like normal GPU performance is a bit less important now. The 3000 series has more than a healthy performance jump compered to last gen, but I am honestly most exited to play around with RTX and DLSS. 

[DeagleMaster]

2 minutes ago, Brok3n But who cares? said:

AMD claims that big navi will have Ray tracing, and the current rumors state their flagship card will compete with the (also rumored) 3070S/ti with about 16gb of vram. It's price is rumored to be $549-$599, and performance between the 3070 and 3080. Obviously, this is totally subjective to change as these are just rumors. 

How will AMDs ray tracing differ from RTX. Will game devs have to develop for both or is it all one unified thing?

[Cs342]

The real question is whether Cyberpunk 2077 will support AMD's version of raytracing

[PriitM]

1 hour ago, DeagleMaster said:

Is there any way AMD can compete with the upcoming RTX 3000 series. I know that the rumored Big Navi card will be competitive in price and performance, but  Amd seems to lack behind in technologies. Dlss and RTX seems like huge selling points for Nvidia and Amd doesn't seem to have an answer for this. It would be great if Amd could be competitive, but is this a possible reality?

AMD proved you dont need dedicated silicon to do ray tracing. Dont forget that RTX 2000 series did not spark a ray tracing craze among game devs. So in that regard, ray tracing is not a real selling point.

DLSS is just a natural evolution of anti-aliasing which has always been a software implementation. AMD has had dedicated anti-aliasing software layer for along time. Only difference the option to turn it on and off is not baked into game options like DLSS is. So again, not a real selling point

 

In that regard AMD is competing by offering a different approach to the same problem. Ray tracing may become an industry standard, but what approach will be good: Nvidias dedicated silicon or AMD Infinity Fabric? Only one way to find out... try them both...

 

[dizmo]

AMD can absolutely compete with the mid range, just like last year. Everything seems to be pointing towards a card that's 15%ish more powerful than an RTX 2080Ti. So, probably a little faster than the 3070, with twice the VRAM, at a slight price increase. Worth it? Only you can decide that. I'd personally go for the card with stronger drivers.

 

I don't see RTX IO as being a selling point for this gen of cards, and a lot of the other implementations still need time to be added. So, it's more of an impressive rasterization feat.

 

AMD hasn't competed in the high end for ages, and it doesn't look like this launch will be any different.

 

1 hour ago, DeagleMaster said:

Hopefully soon. Maybe even an answer to DLSS

They have something similar to DLSS IIRC, it's just nowhere near as good.

7 minutes ago, PriitM said:

AMD proved you dont need dedicated silicon to do ray tracing. Dont forget that RTX 2000 series did not spark a ray tracing craze among game devs. So in that regard, ray tracing is not a real selling point.

DLSS is just a natural evolution of anti-aliasing which has always been a software implementation. AMD has had dedicated anti-aliasing software layer for along time. Only difference the option to turn it on and off is not baked into game options like DLSS is. So again, not a real selling point

 

In that regard AMD is competing by offering a different approach to the same problem. Ray tracing may become an industry standard, but what approach will be good: Nvidias dedicated silicon or AMD Infinity Fabric? Only one way to find out... try them both...

 

To be fair, first gen tech is rarely ever widespread. 5 years from now, when games being produced now are actually out, it'll be in virtually everything.

[it_dont_work]

2 hours ago, DeagleMaster said:

Is there any way AMD can compete with the upcoming RTX 3000 series

Dunno, how many people are going to buy next gen consoles with pc hardware getting so obscenely expensive. I'd put my bet on amd making a healthy profit on the console market  

[Drama Lama]

37 minutes ago, dizmo said:

don't see RTX IO as being a selling point for this gen of cards, and a lot of the other implementations still need time to be added

Yup

 

 

but next gen consoles , especially the PS5, show that AMD has the tech and knowledge for something like RTX IO

rumors about something like this actually came first up for AMD cards

[code99]

From what i've read, seen and just from my opinion I think AMD has a good chance to compete up to an "entry" level 3080 at a slight lower price than the 3080 msrp. Thats my prediction at least.

 

Would I go for a cheaper but same power card as a 3080? No. 

 

The reason for that is mostly drivers. Nvidia's drivers are just more stable than AMD, there is no way around that. Sure AMD's drivers are not as bad as they used to but they are still a step down from what Nvidia has.

 

That and because i have a Gsync monitor so for me the choice is simple

[Mark Kaine]

1 hour ago, code99 said:

AMD's drivers are not as bad as they used to

On the contrary when they were called ATi the drivers were rock solid. 

 

Now they're just always lagging behind on features, copy everything nv does and that then either works poorly or not at all. It's an embarrassing shit show (excuse my french)

3 hours ago, Drama Lama said:

 next gen consoles ,

AMD seems to have less of an issue with fixed hardware, their (undeniable) issues seem to stem from missing or lacking low level implementation in windows and dealing with the plethora of different hardware configurations.

 

Nv drivers are kinda 'baked' into the OS as are intel drivers btw, but the AMD drivers seem to be more a basic app on a level with manufacture's fan control apps etc, and we all know with how many issues those often come.

 

I do not believe AMD can ever overcome these hurdles on non fixed hardware but hope dies last as they say...

[FaxedForward]

A few points that seem to be misunderstood by a few:

• Ray tracing is a standard feature in the DirectX12 API and AMD has confirmed hardware support with the upcoming cards. "RTX" is a Nvidia marketing term. So any game that supports DirectX 12 ray tracing will support AMD as well as Nvidia.
• The upcoming Microsoft DirectStorage API is the basis of Nvidia's "RTX IO." The API isn't even entering developer preview status until mid-2021; there will likely be broad support when it is ultimately available, as it is derived from the Xbox Series X architecture (which uses AMD graphics). So expect a similar implementation from AMD. Nvidia is seemingly just taking a marketing win for announcing support for a Microsoft API that's ~9 months out.

I'm not sure AMD will be competitive at the top of the product stack this generation but I think they are at least learning from their missteps over the past decade. Nvidia's ray tracing is not the killer feature people think it is, but they have made a major marketing win with the "RTX" branding. Ultimately their AI upscaling implementation is far more impressive, and why I will be buying Nvidia this generation.

 

Quote

On the contrary when they were called ATi the drivers were rock solid. 

I don't know that I'd agree with that. Remember Omega Drivers? As someone who bought a Radeon 9700 Pro brand new it was nothing special at the time to install third-party drivers to get substantially better performance and more granular settings.

 

In ATi's defense though, MOST drivers were terrible back then. Going back a few years, the first card I ever bought new with my own money when I was a budding PC enthusiast was a 3dfx Voodoo 5 5500...on one hand I'm nostalgic for the excitement of those days, but on the other hand, it SUCKED when your fancy new video card would play some games extremely well and others like total garbage because of the dozen different graphics APIs implemented to varying degrees before DirectX was truly viable 

[RejZoR]

You people think ATi drivers from Radeon era were bad? Boy, you people haven't used ATi Rage cards and stuff. Those had almost constant problems with bunch of stuff. I had Radeon 9600 Pro and I don't even recall any issues with it.

[FaxedForward]

13 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

You people think ATi drivers from Radeon era were bad? Boy, you people haven't used ATi Rage cards and stuff. Those had almost constant problems with bunch of stuff. I had Radeon 9600 Pro and I don't even recall any issues with it.

Still better than anything made by S3, who basically gave up on the graphics business because they couldn’t be bothered to write functional drivers!

[SolarNova]

8 hours ago, DeagleMaster said:

Is there any way AMD can compete with the upcoming RTX 3000 series. I know that the rumored Big Navi card will be competitive in price and performance, but  Amd seems to lack behind in technologies. Dlss and RTX seems like huge selling points for Nvidia and Amd doesn't seem to have an answer for this. It would be great if Amd could be competitive, but is this a possible reality?

At the very least AMD will be within striking distance of a 3080.

At the very best they will be at 3090 level for a good deal less cost.

 

Either way its good news for consumers as it will push Nvidia on pricing.

[RejZoR]

1 hour ago, FaxedForward said:

Still better than anything made by S3, who basically gave up on the graphics business because they couldn’t be bothered to write functional drivers!

Maybe that was the case for S3 Savage 2000 cards that were plagued by T&L issues and everyone made drama around it. I had S3 Savage3D 8MB and that thing was spectacular and problem free. And boy their S3 Metal API made it something special. Basically all Unreal Engine games (and there were a lot at that time) could use S3 Metal and it not only brought S3TC support for amazing sharp textures, it also boosted performance to insane levels.

[Mark Kaine]

3 hours ago, FaxedForward said:

A few points that seem to be misunderstood by a few:

• Ray tracing is a standard feature in the DirectX12 API and AMD has confirmed hardware support with the upcoming cards. "RTX" is a Nvidia marketing term. So any game that supports DirectX 12 ray tracing will support AMD as well as Nvidia.
• The upcoming Microsoft DirectStorage API is the basis of Nvidia's "RTX IO." The API isn't even entering developer preview status until mid-2021; there will likely be broad support when it is ultimately available, as it is derived from the Xbox Series X architecture (which uses AMD graphics). So expect a similar implementation from AMD. Nvidia is seemingly just taking a marketing win for announcing support for a Microsoft API that's ~9 months out.

I'm not sure AMD will be competitive at the top of the product stack this generation but I think they are at least learning from their missteps over the past decade. Nvidia's ray tracing is not the killer feature people think it is, but they have made a major marketing win with the "RTX" branding. Ultimately their AI upscaling implementation is far more impressive, and why I will be buying Nvidia this generation.

 

I don't know that I'd agree with that. Remember Omega Drivers? As someone who bought a Radeon 9700 Pro brand new it was nothing special at the time to install third-party drivers to get substantially better performance and more granular settings.

 

In ATi's defense though, MOST drivers were terrible back then. Going back a few years, the first card I ever bought new with my own money when I was a budding PC enthusiast was a 3dfx Voodoo 5 5500...on one hand I'm nostalgic for the excitement of those days, but on the other hand, it SUCKED when your fancy new video card would play some games extremely well and others like total garbage because of the dozen different graphics APIs implemented to varying degrees before DirectX was truly viable 

I can just speak from own experience, never had a crash or anything and drivers were no different to nv. I had a 'Saphire x1950gt' btw. OC to maximum, passive cooling and definitely had more power than a PS3, lasted 10+ years too. 

 

My msi 1060 feels similarly solid, something I cannot say about recent amd cards truth to be told.

 

 

[SolarNova]

AMDs twitter tease turned out to just be an announcement that there will be an announcement on the 28th of oct .

 

"AMD #RDNA2 architecture and Radeon RX 6000 Series graphics cards will bring the best of Radeon to gamers worldwide. Learn more October 28."

 

They love to disappoint it seems.

[FaxedForward]

17 minutes ago, SolarNova said:

AMDs twitter tease turned out to just be an announcement that there will be an announcement on the 28th of oct .

 

"AMD #RDNA2 architecture and Radeon RX 6000 Series graphics cards will bring the best of Radeon to gamers worldwide. Learn more October 28."

 

They love to disappoint it seems.

What a huge missed opportunity.

 

If the cards can't release until well after RTX 3000, okay, so be it. If they can't compete with Nvidia at the top of the product stack, it is what it is. But I'm stunned that they are going to let consumers buy out the available stock of RTX 3000 cards for a month before even announcing anything.

 

It seems like a massive tactical blunder for AMD to just let Nvidia win the day. All they have to do is put some kind of doubt in consumer minds that says "hmm, maybe I'll wait for RDNA 2 before making a decision."

 

Does anyone remember the stunning moment at E3 many years ago when Sega announced the Saturn pricing and surprise shipments to retailers, and then a Sony rep went up on stage and totally stole Sega's thunder by announcing that the PlayStation was $100 cheaper before walking off the stage?

 

Obviously times are different now but it's sad to see AMD is not even making an attempt to turn the tables.