Samsung Committing to Give Devices 3 Generations of Android Updates - But There's a Catch...

[thechinchinsong]

3 hours ago, RedRound2 said:

And i precisely said how that isn't even a relevant metric because the screen varys from person to person and battery gives out usually after 4-5 years of normal use

It's no secret that iPhones last longer. Failing to acknowledge that fact with some dumb passive-agressive tactic by means of a broad general conclusion as to a justification applause Samsung's 3 year commitment (cuz which phones last more than 3 years).

I can agree with the software support for Apple is fantastic, but talking about the physical build of the devices I really can't differentiate between any modern Apple and modern Android flagships. Its just thin metal and glass everywhere. Companies can market "fancy-glass TM" and "smart-duro-AI-titanium ©", but I would be fine with a decent plastic body that lasts with some battery replacement. 99% of people probably are okay with how things are now, but personally I would appreciate user-replaceable batteries more than 0,1 mm less bezels, with a camera bulge that feels thicker than the phone its (looking at samsung). 

[RedRound2]

3 hours ago, thechinchinsong said:

I can agree with the software support for Apple is fantastic, but talking about the physical build of the devices I really can't differentiate between any modern Apple and modern Android flagships. Its just thin metal and glass everywhere. Companies can market "fancy-glass TM" and "smart-duro-AI-titanium ©", but I would be fine with a decent plastic body that lasts with some battery replacement. 99% of people probably are okay with how things are now, but personally I would appreciate user-replaceable batteries more than 0,1 mm less bezels, with a camera bulge that feels thicker than the phone its (looking at samsung). 

I'm not sure what gave you the impression that I claimed that Apple devices are indestructible (or at least can withstand physical absue better than others). Let me clear, it's not. That's why things like screen and battery aren't relevant metric because it's the same for all phones.

 

iPhones do last longer, because of the software support. Because in most general cases, phones these days can handle normal general wear and tear for much longer than the software support (obviously this doesn't apply to careless people who would keep dropping their phones or keep the battery at 100% all the time)

 

A claim that no phones can go beyond 3 years because physical damage *will occur* is a very crude generalization, and it should by no means be used to justify or applaud Samsung's 3 year commitment, when flagships these days should be able to go strong for at least 5-6 years (and I limit at 5-6 years only due to just the rapid pace at which phone processors get more powerful each year)

[suicidalfranco]

4 hours ago, RedRound2 said:

Mr.moose, in some random delusion thought that all iPhone screens break within 3 years

he said all phones, iphones included. Not just iPhones, you're the one who came here trying to turn the thread into "IPhone good, Android bad" shit show

4 hours ago, RedRound2 said:

Yes, I agree. But we're talking about general population and average use where most people do tend to moderately take care of their phones. 

got any numbers to prove that claim

 

4 hours ago, RedRound2 said:

Sure you can probably revive an android phone by flashing custom rom, but that's a very niche thing to do

not a requirement, a phone with Android 5, Lollipop, is still perfectly usable in current year. Apps keep running, It won't miss out on newer apps, if you were smart enough you'd picked a phone with a removable battery back then, making swapping battery a 30 second breeze. 

It will browse the web perfectly fine since the browser isn't a system app that can only be updated with a full OS update, it's just an app, that gets updated by your app store of choice.

The idea that a phone instantly becomes unusable after 2 years simply because it doesn't get an update on the third year is simply a big fat lie that i've seen in this forum for far too long.

[RedRound2]

12 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

he said all phones, iphones included. Not just iPhones, you're the one who came here trying to turn the thread into "IPhone good, Android bad" shit show

Love how you guys just like to rebuttle with a childish tactic. I asked him about iPhones and that's what he replied with.

 

Besides which law dictates that all screens and battery breaks and wears out after 3 years. That's just something factually wrong.

Quote

got any numbers to prove that claim

Do you? I don't see many people with broken screens much and you can quote me on the fact that only maybe 20-30% of smartphone users are careless enough to break their screens all the time. Definitely not majority to arrive at such a conclusion like that. Phone cases are thing, if you didnt know.

Quote

not a requirement, a phone with Android 5, Lollipop, is still perfectly usable in current year. Apps keep running, It won't miss out on newer apps, if you were smart enough you'd picked a phone with a removable battery back then, making swapping battery a 30 second breeze. 

It will browse the web perfectly fine since the browser isn't a system app that can only be updated with a full OS update, it's just an app, that gets updated by your app store of choice.

The idea that a phone instantly becomes unusable after 2 years simply because it doesn't get an update on the third year is simply a big fat lie that i've seen in this forum for far too long.

Theoretically it's possible. But it'll be slow, laggy and will have a bunch of known security exploits, and no new software features and creature comforts offered by Android and iOS currently. That's the reason why you dont actually find many people running Android 5 Lollipop (or phones from that era) today, but still find plenty of iPhone 6s or 7 users (which actually came out around the same time ironically - after considering the fact that it used to be the case where major android release used to hit mainstream only 6-8 months after google released the final ersion)

[suicidalfranco]

1 minute ago, RedRound2 said:

But it'll be slow

not, it will feel slow compared to newer devices

1 minute ago, RedRound2 said:

bunch of known security exploits

overblown, and most of them get patched by updating play services, which gets updated by the store, not the OS.

3 minutes ago, RedRound2 said:

no new software features and creature comforts offered by Android

things that unless you go stock android, were "gimmicks" every other OEM had introduced, years before Google takes notice and decides to add it too. Plus if you actually decided to pick a phone that had stock android, for every new feature that gets pushed out with a new OS version, there's an app for that.

16 minutes ago, RedRound2 said:

That's the reason why you dont actually find many people running Android 5 Lollipop today

https://www.statista.com/statistics/271774/share-of-android-platforms-on-mobile-devices-with-android-os/

or you don't find many people with because phone are a commodity, very fragile devices, and get swapped for newer ones more often than there needs to be because of a very competitive market place that's capable of catering every possible price bracket.

On this forum alone i've seen people advising to pick a 200$ phone every year instead of keeping a 800 one for 4 years.

 

 

 

 

[Belgarathian]

19 hours ago, mr moose said:

 

Are we going to argue the definition of quality?

 

To be clear, specs have improved no end, durability (quality of build) has fallen to the shit house.

 

 

No... I can't be bothered, and I suspect that you can't be either. 

 

Yeah, I'd agree with that statement. 

[mr moose]

8 hours ago, RedRound2 said:

And i precisely said how that isn't even a relevant metric because the screen varys from person to person and battery gives out usually after 4-5 years of normal use

It's no secret that iPhones last longer. Failing to acknowledge that fact with some dumb passive-agressive tactic by means of a broad general conclusion as to a justification applause Samsung's 3 year commitment (cuz which phones last more than 3 years).

I'm not arguing with you,  I've said what I've said and you can pretend it's not true for the rest of this thread.

 

6 hours ago, DrMacintosh said:

Define modern? My iPhone 8 Plus is going nowhere anytime soon. I could still be using my 6s Plus from 2015 tbh. Nothing was wrong with it and I had just replaced the battery. 

 

Anything in the last 10 years is modern.  That;s when there was a sudden uptick in the number of screen replacement services and phone repair shops.   Now I don;t believe in planned obsolescence (well I do but not in the same way most people consider it), but when you have an observable number of devices that break or need battery replacement (ask any repair service who been in the business since before 2010) .

[RedRound2]

9 hours ago, suicidalfranco said:

not, it will feel slow compared to newer devices

No, newer devices don't feel all that different from each other (ignoring the high refresh rate displays)

Older android devices, especially android gets super slow over time. Samsung, Pixel phones and most chinese brands with exception of OnePlus (due to their reasonably good support) gets super slow after a year or two

9 hours ago, suicidalfranco said:

overblown, and most of them get patched by updating play services, which gets updated by the store, not the OS.

Bullshit. Some might, not all. And along with previous issue, it's not worth it.

9 hours ago, suicidalfranco said:

things that unless you go stock android, were "gimmicks" every other OEM had introduced, years before Google takes notice and decides to add it too. Plus if you actually decided to pick a phone that had stock android, for every new feature that gets pushed out with a new OS version, there's an app for that.

What about privacy controls? Better notification systems? Better app/ram management? These are usually the frameworks that get significantly updated in android with each version. OEMs don't give a shit about any of this but wourl rather focus on useless bloatware, which is not what im talking about

9 hours ago, suicidalfranco said:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/271774/share-of-android-platforms-on-mobile-devices-with-android-os/

or you don't find many people with because phone are a commodity, very fragile devices, and get swapped for newer ones more often than there needs to be because of a very competitive market place that's capable of catering every possible price bracket.

On this forum alone i've seen people advising to pick a 200$ phone every year instead of keeping a 800 one for 4 years.

So, according to your conclusion, this is true for android, not iOS. Plenty of Apple users rock iPhone 6s and 7 today. SOme even older like the 5S and the original SE.

 

It's a crude generalization at best to conclude that everyone replaces phones when they break. No, many people also replace their phones when it gets unusable and starts crashing often, And that happens with even flagship android phones after 3-4 years. So in those caes, it is better to pick up a $200 phone and upgrade it every year or so. But with iPhones, you can go for the best and expect it to be supported for a long time (also explains why Apple has a commanding lead in marketshare when it comes to flagship products)

[Mihle]

On 8/19/2020 at 1:54 AM, mr moose said:

Physically, before the battery shits, the screen breaks, something in an update causes it to shit the bed.

 

Apple or google decide the app you're using and paid for no longer conforms to "their" policy so is terminated.

 

I have usually switched out phones at the end of 3 or start of 4 year mark, at that point the battery is poor tho. It has not been a conscious decision, its just what have happened.

[Mihle]

19 minutes ago, RedRound2 said:

No, newer devices don't feel all that different from each other (ignoring the high refresh rate displays)

Older android devices, especially android gets super slow over time. Samsung, Pixel phones and most chinese brands with exception of OnePlus (due to their reasonably good support) gets super slow after a year or two

Bullshit. Some might, not all. And along with previous issue, it's not worth it.

What about privacy controls? Better notification systems? Better app/ram management? These are usually the frameworks that get significantly updated in android with each version. OEMs don't give a shit about any of this but wourl rather focus on useless bloatware, which is not what im talking about

So, according to your conclusion, this is true for android, not iOS. Plenty of Apple users rock iPhone 6s and 7 today. SOme even older like the 5S and the original SE.

 

It's a crude generalization at best to conclude that everyone replaces phones when they break. No, many people also replace their phones when it gets unusable and starts crashing often, And that happens with even flagship android phones after 3-4 years. So in those caes, it is better to pick up a $200 phone and upgrade it every year or so. But with iPhones, you can go for the best and expect it to be supported for a long time (also explains why Apple has a commanding lead in marketshare when it comes to flagship products)

I have never had an Android phone that "starts crashing" neither have my parents or my brother. Wonder where you get that from...

We all usually replace phones when screen break or the battery get to a point where we don't want to live with that anymore, around the 3 year mark usually.

 

Also, Even if some have S6 for example, I think it's a very very small group of people in many countries, but more people in countries where salaries is lower.

[suicidalfranco]

26 minutes ago, RedRound2 said:

No, newer devices don't feel all that different from each other (ignoring the high refresh rate displays)

Older android devices, especially android gets super slow over time. Samsung, Pixel phones and most chinese brands with exception of OnePlus (due to their reasonably good support) gets super slow after a year or two

having a hard time believing that and i'm, due to lack of an actual upgrade that feels like an upgrade and not just paying more for less features, on a phone about to it it's 6th year, and yet here it is running fine, letting me enjoy those 5 minutes of archero i put every day, reading, repplying to this post. Anecdotal i know, but it doesn't feel more sluggish compared to when I first unboxed it 5 years ago. Now sure if i put it next to my friends Mi 9T, i can definitely see that it takes longer to load the page or to open an app but that's expected out of a phone 5 years younger.

 

33 minutes ago, RedRound2 said:

No, newer devices don't feel all that different from each other (ignoring the high refresh rate displays)

Older android devices, especially android gets super slow over time. Samsung, Pixel phones and most chinese brands with exception of OnePlus (due to their reasonably good support) gets super slow after a year or two

I call bullshit on your bullshit, if there is one thing i can give google praise is how much they are trying to modulize the OS and turn them into components upgradeable through the play store.

 

37 minutes ago, RedRound2 said:

What about privacy controls? Better notification systems? Better app/ram management?

yep, there's an app for that. And you don't even need root.

[GreatnessRD]

I spent almost a stack on the Note 8 at launch. I'm going to run this bitch into the ground. I won't ever spend anywhere near close to that amount on a phone again. I'll go buy a Walmart trap phone before I ever consider doing that again. But I guess the news of Samsung supporting a phone for 3 generations is cool. Just kinda lame support for these phones go so quick, lol

[RedRound2]

7 hours ago, Mihle said:

I have never had an Android phone that "starts crashing" neither have my parents or my brother. Wonder where you get that from...

I have personal experiance on my mom's galaxaxy S4 and S6. Samsung phones age very badly and she changed to OnePlus and never looked back (although that looks like to change in their new OS)

7 hours ago, Mihle said:

We all usually replace phones when screen break or the battery get to a point where we don't want to live with that anymore, around the 3 year mark usually.

Where did you get this metric from? Again it's a very crude generalization as most people I know including myself dont drop our phones often. PLus many who do uses those ultra thick cases to prevent anything from happeneing.

7 hours ago, Mihle said:

Also, Even if some have S6 for example, I think it's a very very small group of people in many countries, but more people in countries where salaries is lower.

I'm not sure what this is a reply to. Point was a lot of people have older iPhones like 6s and 7 while you generally dont see phones like Samsung Galaxy Note 5, Nexus 6P, HTC One A9, LG G4.

 

All these android phones ive mentioned are wiped out of existance at this point

7 hours ago, suicidalfranco said:

having a hard time believing that and i'm, due to lack of an actual upgrade that feels like an upgrade and not just paying more for less features, on a phone about to it it's 6th year, and yet here it is running fine, letting me enjoy those 5 minutes of archero i put every day, reading, repplying to this post. Anecdotal i know, but it doesn't feel more sluggish compared to when I first unboxed it 5 years ago. Now sure if i put it next to my friends Mi 9T, i can definitely see that it takes longer to load the page or to open an app but that's expected out of a phone 5 years younger.

So you havent used a modern phone. Okay, then you probably dont know the difference. "Doesn't feel" is subjective term, and anecdotal. Instead of talking personal experiances, you should really see the mass. None of the android phones from 2015 I mentioned above is as nearly as popular as the iPhone 6s. And this is the same case with every year.

7 hours ago, suicidalfranco said:

I call bullshit on your bullshit, if there is one thing i can give google praise is how much they are trying to modulize the OS and turn them into components upgradeable through the play store.

It si bullshit. Google is trying. But they can only do so much with play store update. System level vulnerabilities wont be patched, and it were the case where they could patch via a play store install, that itself is a huge vulnerability. No critical updates should ever be delivered in the same channel that is accessible to any third party apps

7 hours ago, suicidalfranco said:

yep, there's an app for that. And you don't even need root.

Where? How do i imporve notification system? How does my phone suddenly have better battery or ram management? Where's the privacy features and controls? I'm not going to use some rando shady thrid party app with ads to try and add half baked funtionality to my phone. I'd rather have the manufacturers support the device through timely updates for years. You're justifying unacceptable after sale service for 600-1500 dollar phones. Give me a break

[ConfusedGamer]

They should stop selling inferior exynos variants first..it's highly disappointing that they claim that performance of both chips are the "same".

[thechinchinsong]

22 hours ago, RedRound2 said:

I'm not sure what gave you the impression that I claimed that Apple devices are indestructible (or at least can withstand physical absue better than others). Let me clear, it's not. That's why things like screen and battery aren't relevant metric because it's the same for all phones.

 

iPhones do last longer, because of the software support. Because in most general cases, phones these days can handle normal general wear and tear for much longer than the software support (obviously this doesn't apply to careless people who would keep dropping their phones or keep the battery at 100% all the time)

 

A claim that no phones can go beyond 3 years because physical damage *will occur* is a very crude generalization, and it should by no means be used to justify or applaud Samsung's 3 year commitment, when flagships these days should be able to go strong for at least 5-6 years (and I limit at 5-6 years only due to just the rapid pace at which phone processors get more powerful each year)

Well you didn't really make a distinction between physical damage vs software support in the comment I quoted before, but I guess you clarify it here. I agree that Apple software support is superior and really all Samsung is doing here is catch-up in terms of software (even then still falling behind Apple's track record).

 

Also I don't think I ever claimed or suggested that that no phones go beyond 3 years due to physical damage. Maybe you were addressing some other comment? Still, I don't know where you get the data for flagships being able to physically go strong for at least 5-6 years. I would argue that most people would be categorized as "careless" under what you're saying since from what I know most people drop their phone and most people I know are fine with charging/keeping their battery at 100%.

[Mihle]

4 hours ago, RedRound2 said:

I have personal experiance on my mom's galaxaxy S4 and S6. Samsung phones age very badly and she changed to OnePlus and never looked back (although that looks like to change in their new OS)

My mums Galaxy S7 Edge that she just changed now was 4 ish years and didn't crash any.

4 hours ago, RedRound2 said:

Where did you get this metric from? Again it's a very crude generalization as most people I know including myself dont drop our phones often. PLus many who do uses those ultra thick cases to prevent anything from happeneing.

I was talking about my family? And I drop my phone very  rare. As I said the phones is usually 3 years or little bit more when they get changed.

4 hours ago, RedRound2 said:

I'm not sure what this is a reply to. Point was a lot of people have older iPhones like 6s and 7 while you generally dont see phones like Samsung Galaxy Note 5, Nexus 6P, HTC One A9, LG G4.

 

All these android phones ive mentioned are wiped out of existance at this point

"A lot" there is where you are wrong, you call a minority of people a lot. 

The only countries where it's probably more than a small minority is countries with lower salary. 

I see people with  older ish Android phones now and then too, it's Def not non existent tho it might be rarer.

I switched away from Nexus 6P last year.

[Dabombinable]

13 hours ago, RedRound2 said:

No, newer devices don't feel all that different from each other (ignoring the high refresh rate displays)

Older android devices, especially android gets super slow over time. Samsung, Pixel phones and most chinese brands with exception of OnePlus (due to their reasonably good support) gets super slow after a year or two

^A factory reset fixes the bad performance. Did that to my Mum's S5 before she gave it to my sister (as a replacement for her dying MotoG). 6 years of operation (text messages went back that far) was what it took to slow down substantially. Battery is still good as well (definitely worn but lasts a couple of days).

[mr moose]

1 hour ago, thechinchinsong said:

I would argue that most people would be categorized as "careless" under what you're saying since from what I know most people drop their phone nd most people I know are fine with charging/keeping their battery at 100%.

 

The thing is people aren't suddenly more clumsy now than they were 10 years ago,  phones just don't survive the fall like they used too.

[RedRound2]

1 hour ago, thechinchinsong said:

Well you didn't really make a distinction between physical damage vs software support in the comment I quoted before, but I guess you clarify it here. I agree that Apple software support is superior and really all Samsung is doing here is catch-up in terms of software (even then still falling behind Apple's track record).

I thought it was a well known fact that Apple devices have good software support. Afterall thats the topic of this thread.

Quote

Also I don't think I ever claimed or suggested that that no phones go beyond 3 years due to physical damage. Maybe you were addressing some other comment? Still, I don't know where you get the data for flagships being able to physically go strong for at least 5-6 years. I would argue that most people would be categorized as "careless" under what you're saying since from what I know most people drop their phone and most people I know are fine with charging/keeping their battery at 100%.

You replied in line with the previous thread. That's why I brought up the 3 year period. Why wouldn't flagships be able to last 5-6 years. iPhones get software support for 4, and if you're lucky 5 years. Android phones have impressive specs. Like what is all that 8-12GB RAM for? If Windows 10 can run on ancient laptops, modern phones should also be able to (but the software part screws things up - and battery can be replaced)

1 hour ago, Mihle said:

My mums Galaxy S7 Edge that she just changed now was 4 ish years and didn't crash any.

Probably didn't notice. My mom also used to think it was normal, until i noticed it. And im talking about apps crashing, not the whole phone. The phone just used to get stuck sometimes (which in it for itself is unacceptable to me)

Quote

I was talking about my family? And I drop my phone very  rare. As I said the phones is usually 3 years or little bit more when they get changed.

Again, just because you change it every 3 years, doesnt mean everyone does. I would've still rocked my older OnePlus 3T today if die a horrible death with saltwater 8 months ago

Quote

"A lot" there is where you are wrong, you call a minority of people a lot. 

The only countries where it's probably more than a small minority is countries with lower salary. 

I see people with  older ish Android phones now and then too, it's Def not non existent tho it might be rarer.

I switched away from Nexus 6P last year.

Nope. I don't think UAE and western European countries are considered poor. These are people who really dont care too much about a phone and uses it till it actually dies on them completely

45 minutes ago, Dabombinable said:

^A factory reset fixes the bad performance. Did that to my Mum's S5 before she gave it to my sister (as a replacement for her dying MotoG). 6 years of operation (text messages went back that far) was what it took to slow down substantially. Battery is still good as well (definitely worn but lasts a couple of days).

It does to a limit, I agree. But it's still annoying to do. Super basic tasks will still be possible on older phones, but my parents in general do actually use quite a few apps and features of a phone to do their normal routine tasks

[mr moose]

1 minute ago, RedRound2 said:

I thought it was a well known fact that Apple devices have good software support. Afterall thats the topic of this thread.

No it isn't, it's nothing to do with apple.  You made it about apple.

Thread is about samsung (not apple) moving to a 3 gen support structure for andoid (not ios)

 

[Blademaster91]

3 hours ago, RedRound2 said:

I thought it was a well known fact that Apple devices have good software support. Afterall thats the topic of this thread.

You replied in line with the previous thread. That's why I brought up the 3 year period. Why wouldn't flagships be able to last 5-6 years. iPhones get software support for 4, and if you're lucky 5 years. Android phones have impressive specs. Like what is all that 8-12GB RAM for? If Windows 10 can run on ancient laptops, modern phones should also be able to (but the software part screws things up - and battery can be replaced)

Probably didn't notice. My mom also used to think it was normal, until i noticed it. And im talking about apps crashing, not the whole phone. The phone just used to get stuck sometimes (which in it for itself is unacceptable to me)

Again, just because you change it every 3 years, doesnt mean everyone does. I would've still rocked my older OnePlus 3T today if die a horrible death with saltwater 8 months ago

Nope. I don't think UAE and western European countries are considered poor. These are people who really dont care too much about a phone and uses it till it actually dies on them completely

It does to a limit, I agree. But it's still annoying to do. Super basic tasks will still be possible on older phones, but my parents in general do actually use quite a few apps and features of a phone to do their normal routine tasks

No this got turned into a "but muh iphone" thread.

This is about Samsung giving their phones 3 OS updates, Samsung already gives their phones another year of security updates on top of OS updates. It was already mentioned but, since Android doesn't need an OS update to update apps the phone can be used longer, it's great that Samsung devices are getting more updates though the average users probably don't care about having the newest OS.

Why not have more RAM? If i'm paying for a flagship the extra ram is nice for example to keep apps running.

And really no phone lasts more than 3 years anymore, most people don't do battery replacements because it either involves going to a store and waiting with no phone or mailing it in, because not everyone has a store they can take their phone to. And at least in North America people usually replace their phone with a trade in deal after the contract expires.

I rarely see any older iphones so people that still hang on to those either can't afford to upgrade or don't do much with their phone besides basic calls and texting.

 

[Trik'Stari]

On 8/18/2020 at 7:46 PM, mr moose said:

Does any modern phone even last 3 generations anymore? 

 

 

Better question: Can someone please make one that does?

 

And has an absurd amount of battery life? And a removable battery? and a $@#$ing headphone jack?

[mr moose]

8 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

Better question: Can someone please make one that does?

 

And has an absurd amount of battery life? And a removable battery? and a $@#$ing headphone jack?

I will happily pay $100 more for a thicker  more robust phone with a replaceable battery.  Hell I will clip it on my belt beside my multitool,

[Trik'Stari]

10 minutes ago, mr moose said:

I will happily pay $100 more for a thicker  more robust phone with a replaceable battery.  Hell I will clip it on my belt beside my multitool,

Make it a little more durable and I'd pay $150.

[Rohith_Kumar_Sp]

On 8/19/2020 at 5:16 AM, mr moose said:

Does any modern phone even last 3 generations anymore? 

depends on what do you mean by lasts, my S7 edge is 4 years old now, coming up on 5th next year Q1