New Intel CPUs

[Zodiark1593]

13 minutes ago, GDRRiley said:

the second though windows update hits good luck. the 2/4 make a lot more sense

For IT managed systems or those owned by hobbyists that know what they’re doing, this isn’t a problem. These are the sort of folk that can squeeze usable value out Atoms and miserly quantities of RAM if necessary. So long as admins keep a tight ship, user experience should be fine. 

 

However, there’s a reason I didn’t include Mom, Dad and Grandma as good candidates for a Celeron. These are the folk that are likely to clutter things up with lots of junk and bring weaker systems to their knees. For a family PC with no technically inclined person to look after it, I’m very much inclined toward a high clocked 4/8 CPU with robust SSD to ensure responsiveness years down the road.

[mr moose]

44 minutes ago, Zodiark1593 said:

For IT managed systems or those owned by hobbyists that know what they’re doing, this isn’t a problem. These are the sort of folk that can squeeze usable value out Atoms and miserly quantities of RAM if necessary. So long as admins keep a tight ship, user experience should be fine. 

 

However, there’s a reason I didn’t include Mom, Dad and Grandma as good candidates for a Celeron. These are the folk that are likely to clutter things up with lots of junk and bring weaker systems to their knees. For a family PC with no technically inclined person to look after it, I’m very much inclined toward a high clocked 4/8 CPU with robust SSD to ensure responsiveness years down the road.

 

I think it is pretty important we remember that there is also a place for these CPU's with school kids that just can't afford anything better.  Sure the experience is going to be rough, but if it means the difference between being 50% in the race and not even making it to the start line then I am all for it.

 

 

[Lord Vile]

5 hours ago, piratemonkey said:

It's by 10-20 dollars depending on where you get it. Along with that extra few dollars (as high as 15, or low as 5) you get overclocking support, and a better upgrade path (in respect to price, and some mobos will be able to run 4th gen ryzen I believe).

Not on the A series boards you don't and for what these CPUs are aimed at I don't think people will be shoving anything higher in them. 

 

The £200 X570 boards will and so will the B550, the B450 board can if the manufacturer allows and if you jump through all the hoops. But why would you pair a £50 CPU with a £150 board? 

[5x5]

6 hours ago, piratemonkey said:

For me, I think that's AMD's biggest problem (and also taking the Intel route to knee cap their high end SKUs). With Intel, they have a rock steady base. They don't rely so much on memory speeds (for better or worse) and there isn't much trouble with memory, at least with their consumer chips.

That's not to say Intel is what people should choose. Besides having a basic build (like what you're saying), there isn't really a good reason to go Intel sadly.

That's not true. Intel also benefit hugely from fast memory with low timings. Slow RAM isn't okay with anything anymore. Memory is, I'd argue, almost as important as on AMD.

 

4 hours ago, Zodiark1593 said:

Honestly, two big cores are plenty for a lot of basics. A bunch of school PCs with celerons and SSDs would probably be plenty fine for most elementary-level academic needs. It isn’t as though (most) third graders are rendering projects on Blender.

 

Not really. Our uni had an i3 4130 setup for mass use several years ago. It was pretty slow once you actually had to do work. When you have 10 browser tabs, a 50 page paper, several internal programmes and an AV running, the i3s would start chugging hard.

 

Same reason we moved to quad cores standard at work. Even for the secretaries. Dual cores are REALLY shit for any environment starting 2016

[5x5]

12 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

Not on the A series boards you don't and for what these CPUs are aimed at I don't think people will be shoving anything higher in them. 

 

The £200 X570 boards will and so will the B550, the B450 board can if the manufacturer allows and if you jump through all the hoops. But why would you pair a £50 CPU with a £150 board? 

A320 overclocking is possible on Athlons.

[Lord Vile]

4 minutes ago, 5x5 said:

A320 overclocking is possible on Athlons.

A320 boards do not have overclocking support, if you can do it it's either a board with an incorrect BIOS or you have to tanper with it yourself. On top of that they all have bad VRMs which are not built for overclocking. 

[Kisai]

7 hours ago, Lord Vile said:

Celerons are fine for office work or just a streaming box. 

 

It's what intel gets for shipping chips that are red lining out of box. Suppose why sell them as a 10700K when you can squeeze out an extra $150

Celeron's are essentially useless except for signage and kiosk systems. Businesses hurt their own productivity by using these weak parts in office equipment since you need 8GB RAM just to open Office 365 and 16GB to do anything productive in Excel.

 

AMD's A-series APU parts are at least not rubbish.

 

Do you know how long it takes to apply Windows Updates just to a U-series part? on the average of 10x longer than the high end H series part. The same applies to desktops using Celerons vs i5/i7 parts.

[5x5]

12 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

A320 boards do not have overclocking support, if you can do it it's either a board with an incorrect BIOS or you have to tanper with it yourself. On top of that they all have bad VRMs which are not built for overclocking. 

You've never looked at an Athlon or A320 board I see. Good to know. There are A320 boards with better VRM solutions than entry level B350

[Master Disaster]

8 hours ago, GDRRiley said:

meh. seems like intel can't get enough dies to meet 10900k requirements so they made a step down.

those celeron should die

Then what would OEM builders uses in all those office PCS?

[GDRRiley]

17 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

Then what would OEM builders uses in all those office PCS?

because their cost is like 10-20$ and intel wants to move any die they can

[Helpful Tech Witch]

35 minutes ago, Kisai said:

8GB RAM just to open Office 365 and 16GB to do anything productive in Excel.

Bull. My grandfather does everything on a a 6gb ram laptop. I've seen him work. Office and Excel work fine. The cpu is a 5 year old dual core athlon if I remember right.

[piratemonkey]

1 hour ago, Lord Vile said:

Not on the A series boards you don't and for what these CPUs are aimed at I don't think people will be shoving anything higher in them. 

 

The £200 X570 boards will and so will the B550, the B450 board can if the manufacturer allows and if you jump through all the hoops. But why would you pair a £50 CPU with a £150 board? 

I was talking/thinking about me more than anything else. For upgrading tho, it'll be easy. From what I've heard, as long as you can get the bios, you'll be able to flash it normally. 

 

55 minutes ago, 5x5 said:

That's not true. Intel also benefit hugely from fast memory with low timings. Slow RAM isn't okay with anything anymore. Memory is, I'd argue, almost as important as on AMD

Really? That's interesting. I mean, you learn something new everyday

[5x5]

6 minutes ago, piratemonkey said:

I was talking/thinking about me more than anything else. For upgrading tho, it'll be easy. From what I've heard, as long as you can get the bios, you'll be able to flash it normally. 

 

Really? That's interesting. I mean, you learn something new everyday

That's why Linus was that angry at the chipset limiting a few days ago. Because it's essentially the same as limiting Ryzen to 2666. You take a 5-10% performance hit.

[5x5]

30 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

Then what would OEM builders uses in all those office PCS?

They should consider fighting against cancer instead of selling it in a box.

[Lord Vile]

4 hours ago, 5x5 said:

You've never looked at an Athlon or A320 board I see. Good to know. There are A320 boards with better VRM solutions than entry level B350

B350 boards are ancient now and please show me which A320 board officially supports overclocking. 

[porina]

12 hours ago, zeusthemoose said:

 Ive noticed these articles are a couple of days old yet werent posted here yet, am I the only that hasnt heard of these processors before now or have they just not gotten alot of attention/coverage?

I think there's two reasons it didn't get attention:

1, it's Intel

2, it is (mostly) low end

 

4 hours ago, 5x5 said:

Intel also benefit hugely from fast memory with low timings. Slow RAM isn't okay with anything anymore. Memory is, I'd argue, almost as important as on AMD.

It depends so much on the specific CPU model and use case, this can't be used as a general statement.

A large proportion of software doesn't really care about ram performance e.g. Cinebench.

A proportion of software see modest gains with ram performance e.g. some games

A small proportion of software is easily ram bandwidth limited e.g. Prime95 large FFT if you're running more than 2 cores per channel on fast AVX CPUs

 

The increase in core counts since Ryzen era has been a driver for more ram bandwidth, with the complication that historically the ram speed was tied to IF speed on Zen. For my personal interests, I simply can't get enough ram bandwidth on any system I'd want to pay for, but for a lot of more casual tasks, it really doesn't make a noticeable difference. That's not no difference, just not enough to make or break a use case.

 

4 hours ago, Kisai said:

Celeron's are essentially useless except for signage and kiosk systems. Businesses hurt their own productivity by using these weak parts in office equipment since you need 8GB RAM just to open Office 365 and 16GB to do anything productive in Excel.

I don't doubt a heavy power user of Excel with very large data sets might need more ram, but for typical office base needs 8GB is fine.

 

Can't check the CPUs in this thread since they're not on Intel ARK yet, but in the past Intel have enabled ECC support in some lower end CPUs. This makes them very attractive for low cost non-CPU intensive server roles e.g. file servers. I have two systems form HPE that use whatever is the Intel dual core CPU of the era and pair it with a smidge of ECC, install your chosen OS and away you go.

[Sauron]

12 hours ago, Lord Vile said:

Lol but it'll be cheap which is what matters for that product  If i was building a streaming PC just for storing films and watching stuff from netflix etc i'd probably get these if they support wifi 6. 

Or you could get a raspberry pi for the price of just the CPU of a celeron build.

[thechinchinsong]

11 hours ago, Lord Vile said:

But a celeron + budget ram is cheaper than an Athlon 

I see. If it's cheaper, then I could see a reason for celeron. But at that level, i would be tempted to buy used for even cheaper. At that point, a windows license would be more expensive than the build and I could see something like a cheap thin client or uber budget prebuilt being just as reasonable.

[5x5]

38 minutes ago, thechinchinsong said:

I see. If it's cheaper, then I could see a reason for celeron. But at that level, i would be tempted to buy used for even cheaper. At that point, a windows license would be more expensive than the build and I could see something like a cheap thin client or uber budget prebuilt being just as reasonable.

You could also buy a used Athlon for pennies on the dime.

[TVwazhere]

The 3000G goes for the same price, has multi thread and Overclockable.

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/664BD3/amd-athlon-3000g-35-ghz-dual-core-processor-yd3000c6fhbox

Unless these celerons can OC, they're DOA. 

[Zodiark1593]

1 hour ago, Sauron said:

Or you could get a raspberry pi for the price of just the CPU of a celeron build.

I do support use of Raspberry Pis for school PCs. Quad Cortex A72s hold their own pretty well. 

[GOTSpectrum]

10 hours ago, thorhammerz said:

I rather doubt most buyers of the low-end boxed-PCs (particularly the office / educational / grandma space) care about "overclocking support" and upgrade paths. Especially if the process of getting a new piece of gear involves going through IT.

Okay then, how about the athlon 200ge, 40GBP here and still 2/4 rather than 2/2.

 

I don't know the mobo cost difference for low end intel vs amd though. Are the lowest end intel boards cheaper, more expensive or the same as very low end AM4 boards, do you know? 

[RejZoR]

Dual cores in 2020 shouldn't be a thing anymore. Quad core was a thing back in 2007 with quite popular Q6600. 13 years ago... Quad core should really be the bottom these days.

[aisle9]

For all the pissing and moaning, I'd like to point out that all of the socketed Celeron prebuilts tend to be cheap af when they hit clearance, and they can all take much higher end chips, limited only by TDP and PSU wattage. I picked a Skylake one up several years ago with a G3900 (?) for $70 on clearance at Walmart, dropped in a sub-$150 i5-6400, then flipped the thing as a home office/media center PC for $400.

 

As an enthusiast and as the "tech guy" for the entire family, I hate that socketed Celerons are still a thing, and I wish Celerons would be relegated to the world of BGA with Pentiums as the entry-level socketed chip. I know there's the whole, "How many cores do you need to read email?", argument, but if there's one thing I know about beginner PC users, it's that they don't just read email. They don't close things, they just open new windows. 14 Chrome tabs, six Outlook windows and three YouTube videos running simultaneously later, and you've long since left bottleneck territory and entered the realm of glue traps.

 

As a former flipper? I loved being able to go look at someone's old desktop that's listed for $200, cut the price by more than half just by saying, "Yeah, but it's a Celeron," then pop in a compatible CPU, remove the case badge and resell it for $350.

[aisle9]

4 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

Dual cores in 2020 shouldn't be a thing anymore. Quad core was a thing back in 2007 with quite popular Q6600. 13 years ago... Quad core should really be the bottom these days.

2/4 works fine for most basic computing. 2/2 is only good for Linux these days.