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TSMC to stop supplying Huawei with chips

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By ThePointblank
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From the  Nikkei Asian Review:

https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Huawei-crackdown/TSMC-plans-to-halt-chip-supplies-to-Huawei-in-2-months

 

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TAIPEI -- Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Co. on Thursday confirmed it has suspended processing new orders from key customer Huawei Technologies to comply with U.S. export regulations, but said it can still achieve more than 20% revenue growth this year thanks to strong demand for 5G smartphones, infrastructure and high-performance computing applications.

 

The world's biggest contract chipmaker also said it is ramping up capital spending for 2020, despite the ongoing coronavirus pandemic.

 

This would be a big blow to Huawei, as TSMC is the primary manufacturer for Huawei's HiSilicon division. And since TSMC has 50% of the world's semiconductor market, it would be very hard for Huawei to find a new partner with the capacity of of TSMC. 

 

Huawei accounts for about 20% of TSMC's revenue, but TSMC expects to easily make up the loss with new business from other companies. 

 

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Has there ever been any credible proof as to not trust Huawei any less than I trust the US government anyways? 

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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Posted
15 minutes ago, ThePointblank said:

This would be a big blow to Huawei, as TSMC is the primary manufacturer for Huawei's HiSilicon division.

Looks like china is going to build it's own fabs. (or expand them)

12 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

Has there ever been any credible proof as to not trust Huawei any less than I trust the US government anyways? 

I see no difference between the 2, both want to spy on people.

Please quote or tag me @Void Master,so i can see your reply.

 

Everyone was a noob at the beginning, don't be discouraged by toxic trolls even if u lose 15 times in a row. Keep training and pushing yourself further and further, so u can show those sorry lots how it's done !

Be a supportive player, and make sure to reflect a good image of the game community you are a part of. 

Don't kick a player unless they willingly want to ruin your experience.

We are the gamer community, we should take care of each other !

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14 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

Has there ever been any credible proof as to not trust Huawei any less than I trust the US government anyways? 

None has far I have seen. Probably not a great idea to annoy the government that supplies most of your things. 

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Posted

So TSMC could apply for a license to still make products for Huawei, but they don't seems to want to... Is the license so ridiculously expensive that it isn't worth it? 

 

 

11 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

Has there ever been any credible proof as to not trust Huawei any less than I trust the US government anyways? 

AFAIK, none. It's all part of Trump's "efforts" to get concessions from China during "trade negotiations". (With Canada stuck in between with Meng)

I think it all started after Huawei supposedly made deals with Iran, when there were US sanctions prohibiting them from doing so. Which escalated to where we are right now with Trump dangling the possibility of dropping the charges against Huawei if...

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1 hour ago, BuckGup said:

Has there ever been any credible proof as to not trust Huawei any less than I trust the US government anyways? 

Not really. They (the Chinese government) both do ostensibly the same things as far as undermining security and spying on their own citizens goes.

The difference is that China actually uses the information they glean to hurt citizens of their own country en masse. The US may or may not do that, we can't tell yet. If the US is doing it, they are doing it much more covertly than China is.

 

 

30 minutes ago, TetraSky said:

Is the license so ridiculously expensive that it isn't worth it? 

If the new regulations fall under ITAR (I think they might, but I'm not 100% sure), then no, it's probably not worth compliance for them.

Not necessarily because of sheer expense, but because it's just a whole lot of trouble.

ENCRYPTION IS NOT A CRIME

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28 minutes ago, TetraSky said:

 

AFAIK, none. It's all part of Trump's "efforts" to get concessions from China during "trade negotiations". (With Canada stuck in between with Meng)

I think it all started after Huawei supposedly made deals with Iran, when there were US sanctions prohibiting them from doing so. Which escalated to where we are right now with Trump dangling the possibility of dropping the charges against Huawei if...

 

44 minutes ago, vorticalbox said:

None has far I have seen. Probably not a great idea to annoy the government that supplies most of your things. 

 

46 minutes ago, Void Master said:

Looks like china is going to build it's own fabs. (or expand them)

I see no difference between the 2, both want to spy on people.

Well nice.... I remember in 2011 I think the NSA released their findings after deeply spying on Huawei for 6 years and they found nothing. 

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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Just now, straight_stewie said:

The US may or may not do that, we can't tell yet. If the US is doing it, they are doing it much more covertly than China is.

 

100% are doing it but aren't nearly as vocal like China with the whole human credit system. 

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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2 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

Well nice.... I remember in 2011 I think the NSA released their findings after deeply spying on Huawei for 6 years and they found nothing. 

At the time the hate for Huawei started, most of the board members were known to be actively involved with a department in a Chinese college known to be a hardware and software development group for 3PLA. I forget all the details, like names.

 

Since that time, however, Huawei has ousted nearly all of those people.

ENCRYPTION IS NOT A CRIME

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I see SMIC and MediaTek's sales to take a leap.

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Taiwan is paying very close attention to what's going on with HK. They know HK is effectively done for, and they don't want to suffer the same fate.

 

It's not a coincidence that global enterprises are divesting from China and into other nations around the Pacific.

 

On the flip side, this could accelerate China's ambitions to create their own home-grown chip fabrication. They can do it, they certainly have the resources. But, there's also a whole lot of geopolitical uncertainty now that's changing the risk calculus with regard to investments.

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2 hours ago, BuckGup said:

Has there ever been any credible proof as to not trust Huawei any less than I trust the US government anyways? 

Honestly, this is enough for me not to buy their products:

Quote

In September 2019 Huawei filed a defamation lawsuit against a French researcher and a television show which had hosted her.[77] The researcher, with the Foundation for Strategic Research, had noted that Ren Zhengfei was a former PLA member and that Huawei functions as an arm of the Chinese government.[78] This was the first time Huawei had sued a researcher for defamation for stating common opinions and recognized facts.[79]

For those that don't know, PLA means People's Liberation Army and it was the name of the communist army that was directed by Mao and beat the ROC (Republic of China, now mostly known as Taiwan) out of the mainland China.

Source: Wikipedia

There are so many alternatives nowadays, why bother with them?

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2 hours ago, BuckGup said:

Has there ever been any credible proof as to not trust Huawei any less than I trust the US government anyways? 

The way I see it, do you want your data with China, or the U.S. I choose the latter, but the U.S is still really bad

Either @piratemonkey or quote me when responding to me. I won't see otherwise

Put a reaction on my post if I helped

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What I say is from experience and the internet, and may not be 100% correct

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2 hours ago, TetraSky said:

So TSMC could apply for a license to still make products for Huawei, but they don't seems to want to... Is the license so ridiculously expensive that it isn't worth it? 

 

 

AFAIK, none. It's all part of Trump's "efforts" to get concessions from China during "trade negotiations". (With Canada stuck in between with Meng)

I think it all started after Huawei supposedly made deals with Iran, when there were US sanctions prohibiting them from doing so. Which escalated to where we are right now with Trump dangling the possibility of dropping the charges against Huawei if...

It's not about the current Administration. The Huawei issue is more agreed upon in DC than the sky is blue. They did something that pissed off every faction in DC. All of them. Even as an American, I've never seen this level of agreement on something technical like this. Which is why: this is happening, and the US Government will stomp over people on this. 

 

The best guess I've seen is this started with the OPM hack, but they found some penetration into systems that cost the power players a lot. Likely some major financial network system. Also very possible that top-level executives were used as delivery methods during high-level talks. That would explain the very specific targeting, beyond just CCCP & PLA ties. 

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55 minutes ago, Morgan MLGman said:

There are so many alternatives nowadays, why bother with them?

I don't think it's a brand or product loyalty thing but the fact people in the US go crazy about evil China and ban all of their spyware. Yet we are over here planting malware in Iranian Nuclear facilities and spying on every country we can. It's very hypocritical 

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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Posted
42 minutes ago, piratemonkey said:

The way I see it, do you want your data with China, or the U.S. I choose the latter, but the U.S is still really bad

I think your data is going to be with both regardless of what phone, laptop, or networking equipment you use. 

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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10 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

I don't think it's a brand or product loyalty thing but the fact people in the US go crazy about evil China and ban all of their spyware. Yet we are over here planting malware in Iranian Nuclear facilities and spying on every country we can. It's very hypocritical 

I agree. Well, you can't do much about that... You're going to get spied on - one way or another in the modern world.

I want to note that I also own a chinese phone (OnePlus 7 Pro) and I don't mind. I just don't like Huawei because of its ties with all that ugly stuff, and with the recent forced switch away from Google services it's even less tempting to buy their phones compared to the competition in the same price range.

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6 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

I think your data is going to be with both regardless of what phone, laptop, or networking equipment you use. 

Eventually it would, but I don't really worry about it

Either @piratemonkey or quote me when responding to me. I won't see otherwise

Put a reaction on my post if I helped

My privacy guide | Why my name is piratemonkey | PSU Tier List | Motherboard VRM Tier List

What I say is from experience and the internet, and may not be 100% correct

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Posted

Christ, can you imagine the backlash if a non-US-based company was trying to cut off every single supplier of a US-based company?

 

The US is doing everything it can to try and destroy Huawei.

🌲🌲🌲

 

 

 

◒ ◒ 

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Posted

with the new presidential order, investing in huawei might also count as indirect aid to Chinese oppression of hong kong, so they are toasted.

this new law is pretty far reaching, wonder how it will all play out in the end

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7 hours ago, BuckGup said:

Has there ever been any credible proof as to not trust Huawei any less than I trust the US government anyways? 

yeaf there is no difference between the US and the compnany aiding the chinese government which has forced millions of people in labour camps, illegally occupying Hong Kong, murdering dissenters 🙄

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8 hours ago, Void Master said:

Looks like china is going to build it's own fabs. (or expand them)

Problem is that everyone's fabs are made in the US or use US technology, and the Americans can cut off support for those manufacturers.

 

Also, since TSMC is by far the biggest player and one of the most advanced in the semi-conductor chip manufacturing arena. If Huawei is forced to shop elsewhere with companies that are willing to do business with them, or rely on domestic Chinese companies, they will take a big hit regardless because TSMC has some of the most advanced fabs in the world, capable of 5nm and 7nm chip processes.

 

If Huawei is forced to only work with domestic manufacturers that don't have the level of advancement of TSMC, they may be forced to make their chips on much older and less capable 12nm and 14nm processes, with the resulting hit on both performance and thermals, which would make them far less competitive than other companies that have access to the more advanced manufacturing processes.

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36 minutes ago, ThePointblank said:

Problem is that everyone's fabs are made in the US or use US technology, and the Americans can cut off support for those manufacturers.

 

Also, since TSMC is by far the biggest player and one of the most advanced in the semi-conductor chip manufacturing arena. If Huawei is forced to shop elsewhere with companies that are willing to do business with them, or rely on domestic Chinese companies, they will take a big hit regardless because TSMC has some of the most advanced fabs in the world, capable of 5nm and 7nm chip processes.

 

If Huawei is forced to only work with domestic manufacturers that don't have the level of advancement of TSMC, they may be forced to make their chips on much older and less capable 12nm and 14nm processes, with the resulting hit on both performance and thermals, which would make them far less competitive than other companies that have access to the more advanced manufacturing processes.

I wouldn't dismiss the capability of the Chinese to build fabs of equivalent capability. We have been accustomed to Chinese stuff being cheap and of low quality, but that is by design.  It would be foolish to think they lack the skills and knowledge to compete in any given field.

Grammar and spelling is not indicative of intelligence/knowledge.  Not having the same opinion does not always mean lack of understanding.  

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2 minutes ago, mr moose said:

It would be foolish to think they lack the skills and knowledge to compete in any given field.

I agree. In many fields "the Chinese" (for lack of a more all encompassing descriptor) are well known for superb craftsmanship and technical prowess.

China is one of the three most advanced and powerful countries in the world. It would be wildly erroneous to think that they are technologically weak.

ENCRYPTION IS NOT A CRIME

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23 minutes ago, mr moose said:

I wouldn't dismiss the capability of the Chinese to build fabs of equivalent capability. We have been accustomed to Chinese stuff being cheap and of low quality, but that is by design.  It would be foolish to think they lack the skills and knowledge to compete in any given field.

Timing is the issue (as always)... may still very well be a few years for them to develop (and build at scale...) the tech to match current day Tier 1 semiconductors.

 

Quote

It's not about the current Administration. The Huawei issue is more agreed upon in DC than the sky is blue. They did something that pissed off every faction in DC. All of them. Even as an American, I've never seen this level of agreement on something technical like this. Which is why: this is happening, and the US Government will stomp over people on this. 

Kind of interesting how Trump is now among the more pro-China / pro-trade / pro-internationalist people in D.C... the last time America looked inwards to sort out its internal shit, the world outside the Americas were more-or-less left to their own devices for the better part of a couple decades (and we all know how that worked out).

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