The Curious Case of the 12-pin Power Connector: It's Real and Coming with NVIDIA Ampere GPUs

[Tan3l6]

Just now, cj09beira said:

or they will simply supply an adaptor for a while its not that complicated 

Yup, just an idiotic new adapter from 2 six-pins to one 12-pin connector. Who needs it besides nVidia?

[pas008]

35 minutes ago, Tan3l6 said:

Yup, just an idiotic new adapter from 2 six-pins to one 12-pin connector. Who needs it besides nVidia?

itd be 4x 8pin

this new plug is 600w rated

after looking at Hopper

this is most likely needed for hopper with MCM design

we will prolly see 2x chips like back in the day but probaby without sli cons like vram pooling, scaling, etc

 

[X-System]

46 minutes ago, pas008 said:

itd be 4x 8pin

this new plug is 600w rated

My Seasonic Prime Ultra 850 Titanium has 3x 8-Pin GPU. It means I will to use 3x 8-pin + 2x molex/SATA to 8-pin if it requires 4x 8-pin for 12-pin adapter... That's a lot of cables for 12-pin adapter

[pas008]

2 minutes ago, X-System said:

My Seasonic Prime Ultra 850 Titanium has 3x 8-Pin GPU. It means I will to use 3x 8-pin + 2x molex/SATA if it requires 4x 8-pin for 12-pin adapter... That's a lot of cables for 12-pin adapter

well what would you do if you were running kingpin gpus in sli?

or many other top tier enthusiast grade cards in sli

 

supposedly hopper is MCM design so how would you approach powering them enthusiast grade cards that have 2x of those chips and rt chip on it

 

[porina]

1 hour ago, pas008 said:

itd be 4x 8pin

this new plug is 600w rated

I still doubt that 1, consumer cards will go up that much in power consumption, and 2, because the connector's maximum rating is that high, doesn't mean they'll rate the usage of the connector that high. I think even if they did adopt it on consumer level cards, they could do a "lite" version of it with a lower power cap for the transition period. Two 8 pins plus the slot is already 375W potential, and I can't see regular consumer cards exceeding that. Specific exception for extreme overclocking cards.

[SADS]

This isn't as mad as everyone seems to think.

Graphics cards came with molex>6/8pin adapters when PCI-E started to come around... or something like that.

Same with molex to Sata power adapters.

 

I'm kinda on the fence, personally, i don't really care too much with having to plug in a couple of power cables... but might look a bit better have a single connector.

Though I do agree with what others are saying about the power demands of the card... I also thought that things were supposed to be getting more efficient!?

[pas008]

16 minutes ago, porina said:

I still doubt that 1, consumer cards will go up that much in power consumption, and 2, because the connector's maximum rating is that high, doesn't mean they'll rate the usage of the connector that high. I think even if they did adopt it on consumer level cards, they could do a "lite" version of it with a lower power cap for the transition period. Two 8 pins plus the slot is already 375W potential, and I can't see regular consumer cards exceeding that. Specific exception for extreme overclocking cards.

i'm sure 90% of consumer cards will not need it either but then again with mcm on the way we might see some variants in enthusiast area with 2x-4x hopper chips with a rt chip

[cj09beira]

3 hours ago, pas008 said:

itd be 4x 8pin

this new plug is 600w rated

after looking at Hopper

this is most likely needed for hopper with MCM design

we will prolly see 2x chips like back in the day but probaby without sli cons like vram pooling, scaling, etc

 

i bet it will be 2 8 pins to 1 12 pin 

[BabaGanuche]

To me it would just make more sense to just use the EPS-12 style of pinout. An 8+4 is good for 576 W

[pas008]

49 minutes ago, cj09beira said:

i bet it will be 2 8 pins to 1 12 pin 

probably at first and only use half or something

I'm still wondering if aib will be forced to use them

they might be able to go their own route on their custom pcbs until hopper or bigger hopper cards

but this is all speculations atm until we see this arrive on psus then we will know if this is going to happen

[thedangerine]

I hate it. I got a pretty decent power supply two years ago that had really good reviews and is 80+ gold and should be plenty of watts for the hardware I usually run for years to come, also it came with a 12 year warranty so I thought sweet I won't need a new psu for a long time and I really don't want to get a new one or have to use adapters for the next 10 years until my warranty runs out and I consider a new psu. I really don't see the benefit of changing something that has been the same this long, I fail to see how this actually benefits anyone. Dual 8 pins plus the pcie slot can do up to 375 watts, I don't want a gpu that sucks anything over that, thats insane. I get that if you want a faster card it usually takes more power but considering the gtx 1080 in all its glory uses one 8 pin they really can't keep the new 3000 cards down to two 8 pins. I get that one big power connector would be nice instead of multiple but making a new power connector that no one else has seen or worked on in the industry just seems stupid and Nvidia is doing it because they  can. I really just don't see why it is such a big deal to run two power cables to a gpu

[mr moose]

15 hours ago, pas008 said:

itd be 4x 8pin

 

14 hours ago, X-System said:

 It means I will to use 3x 8-pin + 2x molex/SATA to 8-pin if it requires 4x 8-pin for 12-pin adapter...

 

11 hours ago, cj09beira said:

i bet it will be 2 8 pins to 1 12 pin 

 

I'm lost.  

[thorhammerz]

21 hours ago, porina said:

Where did 650W come from? There's some inflation in the thread, OP says 600W.

The PSU be going brrrrrr...?

[Guest]

29 minutes ago, Escanor said:

Does this mean i have to replace my evga 1300 g2 psu with ampere

No

[Spotty]

 

4:51 mark

Gamer's Nexus is confirming it, expecting to be OEM cards only. AIB partner cards expected to come with normal 2x8 PCIe pin connectors.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Escanor said:

So i can keep using the same power cables ?

Yes. From what Gamers Nexus was saying after speaking with graphic card manufacturers, most Ampere cards will still come with normal 6-pin and 8-pin connectors. 
And even if you'll find a card with the 12-pin, it will most likely also have adaptors for it.

[Spotty]

1 hour ago, Escanor said:

 

Just would suck if those adapters did not come with proper one's and look ugly  would want my sleeved cables to still match

If they do sell founders edition cards with a different connector that requires an adapter it doesn't have to be a crappy ketchup coloured cable adapter. It could be something more aesthetically pleasing like the EVGA powerlink adapter.

 

[pas008]

8 hours ago, mr moose said:

 

 

 

I'm lost.  

connector is supposedly 600w, probably for 4x big hopper chips for very highend and hpc area

5 hours ago, Spotty said:

 

4:51 mark

Gamer's Nexus is confirming it, expecting to be OEM cards only. AIB partner cards expected to come with normal 2x8 PCIe pin connectors.

thats what I was wondering, solved that concern

 

[D13H4RD]

Exactly what I've been thinking all along. 

 

All the websites saying that it may "require users to rip out their PCs guts for a PSU swap" has just been spreading utter FUD... 

[Snadzies]

On 7/21/2020 at 11:15 PM, D13H4RD said:

Exactly what I've been thinking all along. 

 

All the websites saying that it may "require users to rip out their PCs guts for a PSU swap" has just been spreading utter FUD... 

 

Websites pushing out articles about Nvidia requiring a new power connector are nothing but click bait bullcrap.

Nvidia many have made some boneheaded moves from time to time but to require a new power connector without any sort of advanced warning would be going full

 

retard

.

[Bumblebeepee]

It reminds me of this XKCD, https://xkcd.com/927/ 

But realisticly, how much more power can they draw through a new connector?

 

The current ATX power delivery standards for PCIe cards are, 

• A 12V supply +/- 5% (11.4V to 12.6V)
• 6 pin 75W supply, 2 or 3 wires will supply 12V, giving us 2A or 3.1A per wire. 
• 8 pin 150W supply, 3 wires supply 12V, giving us 4.2A per wire. (2 pins of the 8 pin connector will be used to sense that a 8 pin cable is connected)

These connectors have a rating of 5.5A per 18AWG copper wire in a 12 pin connector, so the 8 pin standard using 4.2A per wire is already close to the rated spec.
The ratings for these connectors are based of the maximum current that can be passed without the connector or wire reaching 30C above the ambient temperature.

If the maximum number of wires are used to supply +12v (6 of the 12 wires), almost 400w could be achievable from this connector if it meets the defined spec, 
5.5A x 12V = 66W per wire, x6 = 396W

This excludes the voltage drop due to the wires internal resistance, and also that the ATX specification does not specify the wire material, it is only assumed to be copper. A shoddy PSU manufacturer may substitute Aluminium wire as its cheaper.

 

Footnotes;
AWG - (American Wire Gauge); the lower the number, the thicker the wire is. 18AWG is thicker than 20AWG.
For current ratings of Aluminium wire, take 2 from the AWG of copper wire to get the AWG for Aluminium, e.g. 20AWG copper wire will carry as much current as 18AWG Aluminium wire.
If a PSU supplies 12V, the voltage drop for an 18AWG copper wire at 5.5A over a distance of 1m (3.3ft full circuit distance, 50cm each way), is 0.24V or 2%.

Sources;
Intel ATX specification https://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/guides/power-supply-design-guide-june.pdf 
Molex connector specification https://www.molex.com/pdm_docs/ps/PS-43045-001.pdf (page 8, see 12-circuit column for W-W amps at 18AWG)
The Amps per wire goes down for connectors with more wires, because there a more wires to cool in a confined space.
Really, two 6-circuit connectors next to each other should meet the specification for a 12-circuit connector (and currently do so).