WHY do I pay Adobe $10K a YEAR!?

[GDRRiley]

12 minutes ago, SenKa said:

MBP is MUCH easier to use IMO. The majority of what I do could be uploaded on YT, though it is more prerecorded newscasting type stuff. I would 100% reccomend something like a 14" MBP (if its any good when it comes out), or a 16" if you have dough to spend. The current 13" isnt worth much salt, especially with a refresh any week now and the 14" in a couple months.

 

FCPX is much more newbie friendly than DaVinci or Premier in my opinion, coming from a certification in FCPX and Premier and lots of years of using DaVinci,

Reslove is way easier than PP and I perfer it to FCPX

 

I'd go PC or maybe a mac mini maybe a 2013 mac pro. reslove on a 1500PC will wipe the floor of a mac book. or you could spend even less and get a better camera, lights or other gear.

@dizmo want help mac a post under camera stuff

Edited May 3, 2020 by GDRRiley

[jasonvp]

I'm pretty enthused about this topic and have written mini-tomes on it.

 

First and foremost: I understand the challenge facing LMG editors when it comes to switching to new apps to do their work.  Time is money, and spending time learning is always good time/money spent so that you can expand your horizons.  But if it comes at the immediate cost to the bottom line, then you have to take care with that.  So: yep, I get it.

 

With that, I've been using Adobe's environment since long before the Creative Cloud.  I despised the SaaS idea when they launched it, and I despise it even further today.  But I just kept using it because it's what I knew.  I've tried, on multiple occasions to do things in FCPX.  Its UI is just not friendly to folks accustomed to traditional NLEs.  FCPX is fast.  Stupid fast.  It's very efficient within MacOS and with the hardware that's thrown at it.  But the UI is just... ugh.  No thanks.

 

Resolve, on the other hand is "the way".  At least it is for me.  After getting my Mac Pro and migrating any/all editing stuff to it, I finally made the full transition to Resolve.  I hadn't previously on my PC, because of their sticky issues with NVidia GPU drivers.  They really want you to use the slightly older Studio drivers.  If you're crashing a lot and running the GeForce drivers, they'll punt on support.  Even with the commercial version.  That's no bueno in my opinion, but I understand their stance.  I don't agree with it.  Since my PC is primarily my gaming rig, I need to keep its drivers up to date regularly, and that means not running the Studio drivers.

 

Anyway, that aside: Adobe painted themself into a nasty corner without realizing they were doing it, I suspect.  Here's what I mean by that: Premiere's an AE's code is cruft.  Awful, awful, old cruft.  It needs to be sent to /dev/null and never looked at again.  Both applications need to be rewritten entirely from the ground up.  And I do mean entirely; no copying old cruft over for "features".  Rebuild it all.  However, that's a lot of work.  And developers working on that couldn't also work on new features for the existing Premiere and AE, which is one of the things that keeps suck...err... customers paying the sub prices.  Given that, I doubt we'll ever see Adobe completely re-write either app, regardless of how badly they both need it.

 

Resolve?  Hardware decoding of h.264/h.265 files included in the paid-for version.  Hardware encoding for both as well.  That means the app snorfles in those unwieldy long-GOP files in no time flat and you're editing in a flash.  And when you're ready to export, the GPU's hardware encoder does all the work.  The only way to sort of get the same effect in Premiere is if you have an iGPU and it's currently active.  Adobe refuses, for some oddball reason, to add GPU decoding for AMD and NVidia to Premiere.  It finally took them to beta version 14.2 to add hardware encoding!  How long have I been pestering them about that?  Um... since NVidia introduced us to NVENC, that's how long.

 

Resolve can inhale the very fat Canon RAW Lite (HA!) files from my C500 Mark II with literally no issue whatsoever.  Just bam the files are in and I'm editing in real time.  Premiere?  All CPU cores go right to 100% the moment I try to put one of those RAW files on my timeline and play it.  Heh.  Fail.

 

Are there things I'm going to miss when my CC sub runs out next month?  Yep.  Audition.  Audition is... just awesome.  I generally refer to it more as an "audio editor" and less a full-blown DAW.  Though others may disagree.  I do like how simple it is to do things in Audition.  But I don't want to be beholden to Adobe any longer, not even $22/month for a single app.  So I've moved audio editing to Apple's Logic Pro X.  Which... is still challenging for me to grok because of how different it is.  It is, after all, a real DAW.

 

 

 

[AnonymousGuy]

You wanna know what my gigantic employer would do?  Make everyone 20% more inefficient to save 5% of cost.  5% cost savings shows up in excel easily....everyone's output dropping by 20% isn't quantified the same way.  By the time that penalty actually shows up on the books, they've already been promoted to senior ultimate VP where they're above getting punished for it anyways and instead can decide to just lay off some people to save the 20% again.  Cycle repeats over and over.

/rant.

 

[Jet_ski]

Adobe is gonna see this video and think “wow our software is worth $42,000 to media businesses like LTT and we’re only getting $10,000?!” Then they’ll jack up the price to $38,000 ish.

[Deli]

So glad I find alternatives that are "good enough" for my work flow. There is zero Adobe software in my PC, except the PDF reader.

[EddiesTech]

Quote

or even some of the awesome free editing tools out there like HitFilm Express - Linus

What about FXhome HitFilm Pro? I was disappointed that it wasn't included in your roundup. It basically looks the exact same as Premiere and After Effects in one software. It has undockable windows and you can change the layout as much as you want! Why did you not consider it an option? It has amazing compositing tools and simple editing tools. It has audio effects, etc. (This isn't an ad btw!)

[Egg-Roll]

2 hours ago, Deli said:

So glad I find alternatives that are "good enough" for my work flow. There is zero Adobe software in my PC, except the PDF reader.

Depending on your use you could just use chrome like me.

 

6 hours ago, comander said:

Yep. I don't get why some people pooh Pooh that amount. 

 

Even when I lived in LA, as a single for with a roommate, $10ish/hr would've been enough to make ends meet (though I would've had a very low savings rate). 

 

If you're meticulously calculated with your spending you can have a pretty high quality of life on the cheap. Think 1-3 nice vacations a year, decent computer, reliable car, largish room to yourself in a reasonably nice area for not that much cash. 

Poor money management. Almost everyone has it, those who can control it are the ones that keep money. The worst offenders imo are the ones who start saving with massive CC debt and call it saving. If you have 10k in debt on CCs and 10k in a savings account, you are losing the difference in interest, not saving.

 

Personally I wouldn't like to live in that payrange, but I think most of us have at least at some point in our lives.

 

Depending on your future wants/needs skipping those vacations every year and push them to 2 years or 3 could drastically increase savings, instead stay home do work around there or play games on the computer on your time off. Cars are another thing one can toss possibly. If you live and work where transit exists it could (should) be cheaper than owning a car, and might not be much slower esp if you live/work near a train station or subway like me (before the pandemic, now everything is chaos, the bad type)

[AngryBeaver]

SaaS has it's place in a fair amount of circumstances, but apple being apply likes to charge the most they can get away with. I personally don't use their products anytime I have the option and I think if you did some digging you would find a ton of their products are pirated in the private sectors.

 

So there is another downside to a pricing model like this. You drive people to looking for ways to obtain your software for free instead of paying for the subscription service.

[Kilrah]

1 minute ago, AngryBeaver said:

but apple being apply

You must be mixing up with Adobe, right?

[Sean de Swardt]

18 hours ago, GDRRiley said:

no adobe has put a lot of work into making new ones more multicore and use GPUs better.

I think you should check your facts on puget systems. After effects is still a single core program so it only cares about turbo clock speeds not multi core workflow. Only a handful of codecs use use the full core count.

 

The fact is if the effects and software you use are parts of the same program itis faster then having to go to another program and wait for it to load.

 

Linus tech tips is supposed to be about the hardware will support software.

 

In short Da Vinci Resolve scales where premier Pro simple can not.

 

UpBut I found this video deceptive they mentioned how it's gpu heavy like it's a bad thing you can you can not use premier Pro hardware for resolve check Puget systems for that. What they forgot to mention is the difference in proxy media worklfow, in premier you are forced to use proxy media for anything bigger then 4k. But in Da Vinci you also have this avaible as an option but it will render in out at the same time so those fusion tracking points play in real time. It all comes down to hardware support and this is where Adobe fails you can play 8k footage in real time resolve in premier your forced to use proxy media.

 

However both programs struggle with anything bigger then 1080p I do feel  Vinci resolve has a slight edge 

[chnill]

So, while watching yesterday's video i for some reason had subtitles on and got this "amazing" text during Linus sponsor read. Don't know if this just happens for me but figured some one might be interested in knowing about it.

[GDRRiley]

1 hour ago, Sean de Swardt said:

I think you should check your facts on puget systems. After effects is still a single core program so it only cares about turbo clock speeds not multi core workflow. Only a handful of codecs use use the full core count.

 

The fact is if the effects and software you use are parts of the same program itis faster then having to go to another program and wait for it to load.

 

Linus tech tips is supposed to be about the hardware will support software.

 

In short Da Vinci Resolve scales where premier Pro simple can not.

 

UpBut I found this video deceptive they mentioned how it's gpu heavy like it's a bad thing you can you can not use premier Pro hardware for resolve check Puget systems for that. What they forgot to mention is the difference in proxy media worklfow, in premier you are forced to use proxy media for anything bigger then 4k. But in Da Vinci you also have this avaible as an option but it will render in out at the same time so those fusion tracking points play in real time. It all comes down to hardware support and this is where Adobe fails you can play 8k footage in real time resolve in premier your forced to use proxy media.

 

However both programs struggle with anything bigger then 1080p I do feel  Vinci resolve has a slight edge 

my point was 2015 was even worst then now.

 

I know I use resolve daily

 

Resolve doesn't struggle with higher res. I'm usually editing 60-100mbs 1440p h.265 and it does fine on the free version that is without using hardware encode/decode.(580 8gb and a 2700)

It does love GPU memory which is why the Radeon VII is so strong in it.

[TetraSky]

Community edited. Some troll got rid of the real message and put this meme raid garbage instead.

[jasonvp]

17 minutes ago, GDRRiley said:

It does love GPU memory which is why the Radeon VII is so strong in it.

Yep.  It makes me glad I got the Vega II with my Mac versus waiting for the W5700X (eventual) release.  The latter has a faster h.265 hardware encoder, but the former has twice the available memory as the W5700X, and it's HBM2 to boot.

[GDRRiley]

1 minute ago, jasonvp said:

Yep.  It makes me glad I got the Vega II with my Mac versus waiting for the W5700X (eventual) release.  The latter has a faster h.265 hardware encoder, but the former has twice the available memory as the W5700X, and it's HBM2 to boot.

the W5700x just needs to become the standard GPU.

16gb is usually good enough for 4k work but I'd expect 6k and 8k to want that 32.

[jasonvp]

4 minutes ago, GDRRiley said:

the W5700x just needs to become the standard GPU.

16gb is usually good enough for 4k work but I'd expect 6k and 8k to want that 32.

As much a fan of Apple as I am, I know full well their love of money won't allow them to make the 5700 the standard GPU.  It's an "easy" box to tick, and it's not hugely expensive compared to the rest of the machine.  I'm sure that's Apple's line of thinking.

[GDRRiley]

1 minute ago, jasonvp said:

As much a fan of Apple as I am, I know full well their love of money won't allow them to make the 5700 the standard GPU.  It's an "easy" box to tick, and it's not hugely expensive compared to the rest of the machine.  I'm sure that's Apple's line of thinking.

the entire machine is too much for the performance because apple went intel. I wish they would make a mac pro mini. I don't know what most schools who are running 2010 or 2012 mac pros will move to.

iMacs have the performance but good luck getting them to last 8 years without overheating and the risk of some kid breaking one is high.

 

[Kilrah]

Apple wants kids and schools to use iPads now. Remember, it's the computer of the future... 

[Sean de Swardt]

1 hour ago, GDRRiley said:

my point was 2015 was even worst then now.

 

I know I use resolve daily

 

Resolve doesn't struggle with higher res. I'm usually editing 60-100mbs 1440p h.265 and it does fine on the free version that is without using hardware encode/decode.(580 8gb and a 2700)

It does love GPU memory which is why the Radeon VII is so strong in it.

I agree fully but NVENC is pritty big deal on the latestest version on resolve studio on rtx it's a 90 percent faster encode which is not even mentioned. I am not against Adobe but I am against people slating blackmagic because of what it represents a new affordable platform for sound engineers colorists and compositors to have a streamlined workflow and we have the lion King to show it is possible all with decent hardware ( which is not the enemy) that's were the money should be spent. The fact is resolve will use the hardware you give it I am not convinced Adobe can is it is partial use. 

 

But at the end of the day it comes down to work flow 

[dizmo]

1 hour ago, comander said:

My pay went up over $100,000/year when I changed jobs. 

 

My living expenses are only a few thousand more. 

Yes, but you likely would have made significantly more if you lived somewhere cheaper as well.

[dizmo]

On 5/2/2020 at 6:48 PM, SenKa said:

MBP is MUCH easier to use IMO. The majority of what I do could be uploaded on YT, though it is more prerecorded newscasting type stuff. I would 100% reccomend something like a 14" MBP (if its any good when it comes out), or a 16" if you have dough to spend. The current 13" isnt worth much salt, especially with a refresh any week now and the 14" in a couple months.

 

FCPX is much more newbie friendly than DaVinci or Premier in my opinion, coming from a certification in FCPX and Premier and lots of years of using DaVinci,

I think the 14" would be a little too...small. When unsure, go big or go home right? I was thinking the 16" with the i9, 5500M, and 1TB SSD seemed like the smartest option in terms of price and componentry. If the 14" compares in pricing with the 13" currently, the 16" is a considerably better deal; the 13" now is $29 more, but doesn't come with a dedicated GPU.

On 5/2/2020 at 7:01 PM, GDRRiley said:

Reslove is way easier than PP and I perfer it to FCPX

 

I'd go PC or maybe a mac mini maybe a 2013 mac pro. reslove on a 1500PC will wipe the floor of a mac book. or you could spend even less and get a better camera, lights or other gear.

@dizmo want help mac a post under camera stuff

I don't think a Mac Mini is going to have anywhere near the power of a Macbook Pro. Probably, but Final Cut runs insanely efficiently on a Mac. Beating most programs for render times etc. She already has one of my old cameras, and she doesn't really need lights as she does mostly car stuff.

[caincha]

On 5/3/2020 at 12:28 PM, GDRRiley said:

Guess what, it can happen on mac. Resolve has 0 issues crashing on windows or Mac.

only with background render on.

But that's my point. They made a video that was sort of Final Cut vs Adobe Premiere (it was more like blonde apple girl vs nerdy whiny LMG guy) and didn't mention how much would it cost to have a software that crashes on a system that hangs/crashes/updates and reboot at will and so on…

Not saying that Premiere wouldn't crash on the Mac (though I would think it happens less often) but that having a truly stable system (even Linux but then I don't know what software could be used) would end up 'saving' money by saving time and frustration.

 

I do have to say though that I don't know how much does macro keys help speed up the process on Premiere (and I assume it can't be done natively on Mac - but there's probably an app for that) but at the end of the day I'm pretty sure is childish pettiness (the whole Mac is not for gamers - or whatever) combined with unwillingness to learn so… meh…

[caincha]

1 hour ago, dizmo said:

I think the 14" would be a little too...small. When unsure, go big or go home right? I was thinking the 16" with the i9, 5500M, and 1TB SSD seemed like the smartest option in terms of price and componentry. If the 14" compares in pricing with the 13" currently, the 16" is a considerably better deal; the 13" now is $29 more, but doesn't come with a dedicated GPU.

I don't think a Mac Mini is going to have anywhere near the power of a Macbook Pro. Probably, but Final Cut runs insanely efficiently on a Mac. Beating most programs for render times etc. She already has one of my old cameras, and she doesn't really need lights as she does mostly car stuff.

Firstly there is no such thing as MacBook Pro 13". They do call it like that but with no dedicated graphics it is NOT a pro so go for the 15" or the 16" if you can afford it.

That being said I do think the MacMini can have some pretty beefy specs plus a bit better cooling however you'll have mobility with the MacBook and not with the mini and its peripherals.

 

A compromise would be the iMac 27" - better specs than a MacBook, huge high-def screen, can be upgraded (RAM is easy, CPU and drives are for advanced users) and if you want to take it with you just put it back in the original box and off you go. (unless you wanna do your work in a cafe place like a hipster then please by all means do buy a MacBook Air 11" and go embarrass yourself  )

[jasonvp]

2 hours ago, caincha said:

Not saying that Premiere wouldn't crash on the Mac (though I would think it happens less often) but that having a truly stable system (even Linux but then I don't know what software could be used) would end up 'saving' money by saving time and frustration.

I'm going to continue with my mini-tome, per my first post in this thread.  And it centers specifically around Adobe and Macs.  Premiere Pro runs like absolute dog shit on a Mac in comparison to a Windows rig.  There was once a time when Adobe's software soared to great heights on a Mac, but we're way, way past that.  At this point, the majority of Adobe's development cycles are spent on feature-itis, and making sure everything works (FSVO: "works") on Windows.  MacOS is seemingly an after thought for them.

 

And it sort of makes sense (cents?) for them to do that.  The majority of their customer base is running Windows.  Why bother focusing serious development cycles to optimize their software for a fraction of the user base?  It's a sucky way to go for us Mac users, but it makes way more sense for Adobe.

 

The result is that while you can run Premiere Pro, AE, etc on a Mac, you'll likely be having a not-very-fun time.  Adobe app performance on Macs has been on a pretty steady decline for 7 or so years.  One of the real killers was Apple trying to move away from NVidia and to AMD with OpenCL vs NVidia's CUDA.  That threw Adobe for a loop.  Then Apple switched again, favoring their internal Metal API over OpenCL.  Smaller development houses like BMD could keep up with Apple and migrate quickly.  Adobe?  Well, they can (and have, I think) migrate as well, but the results aren't great.

 

Aside from the rendering API (eg: CUDA vs Metal vs OpenCL), the rest of the software is just ... sluggish.  For folks using Macs specifically, the continued reliance on Adobe is going to eventually start costing you real time, which translates into real money.  You're going to be spending more and more money for increasingly powerful Macs in the future, and you're going to be waiting and waiting and... waiting.. for Adobe's software to complete a task.  This is the whole CapEx/OpEx debate, and it's not an easy one to have.  Is "waiting" actually a costly thing for the company?  That's the question each company has to answer.

 

But then that has to be weighed against the costs of either A) transitioning to a different NLE/application set, or B) transitioning away from MacOS to Windows.  Neither is easy to do.  Option B is easier if your primary concern is staying within a certain application set (eg: the Creative Cloud).  Your keybindings will be a little different (ALT vs CMD, etc) but for the most part, you'll be back up and running within your apps very quickly.  Option A is harder and will take more OpEx, but it allows you to avoid the CapEx of replacing all your expensive Macs with PCs.

 

My ultimate recommendation, for what little I matter, is that folks should spend the time to migrate as much as they can away from Adobe.  Definitely more so if you're on a Mac, but even if you're on Windows.  As NLEs go, Resolve is just superb.  Its vastly more efficient in every measurable manner than Premiere Pro is (or ever likely will be).  Audio editors, effects editors, and page layout editors are a bit harder to settle on, and going back and forth between those apps versus using Adobe's dynamic linking is a time sink.  But I'll wager that once you get a process and workflow set up, you'll be able to overcome that hurdle.

 

I think LMG should set it as a long-term corporate goal to be Adobe-free.  Perhaps by the end of 2020, or sometime into 2021.

[dizmo]

5 hours ago, caincha said:

Firstly there is no such thing as MacBook Pro 13". They do call it like that but with no dedicated graphics it is NOT a pro so go for the 15" or the 16" if you can afford it.

That being said I do think the MacMini can have some pretty beefy specs plus a bit better cooling however you'll have mobility with the MacBook and not with the mini and its peripherals.

 

A compromise would be the iMac 27" - better specs than a MacBook, huge high-def screen, can be upgraded (RAM is easy, CPU and drives are for advanced users) and if you want to take it with you just put it back in the original box and off you go. (unless you wanna do your work in a cafe place like a hipster then please by all means do buy a MacBook Air 11" and go embarrass yourself  )

I took a look into it, and the Mac Mini is...all right, but it only comes out to about $500 cheaper than a 16" MBP.

The iMac comes in considerably more expensive at $600 more.