Is mainland Africa an island?

[TVwazhere]

25 minutes ago, minibois said:

- (If answered yes to the previous question) Can a mainland be an island??

Perhaps a mainland could be an Island, but that would mean "The mainland of Africa is an island" rather than "Africa is an Island". 

 

WHY IS THIS DEBATE SO INTERESTING TO ME, FUCK

[minibois]

1 minute ago, TVwazhere said:

Perhaps a mainland could be an Island, but that would mean "The mainland of Africa is an island" rather than "Africa is an Island". 

Yea, for sure!
Africa the continent in its entierity is definitely not a continent! It is a continent that exists of a couple islands, including:

- Madagascar

- The mainland

- The other islands (Gran Canaria and such).

4 minutes ago, TVwazhere said:

WHY IS THIS DEBATE SO INTERESTING TO ME, FUCK

I'm hoping others have enjoyed it as much as I have and you apparently too so far.

Of course I started this thread to try and settle an argument with some other people (which is gonna be super awkward when I am going to have to present the poll numbers), but at least I can argue my point a little better this time.

[TVwazhere]

Ironically, I thought by this crazy definition, the only continent that could not be classified as an Island is Antarctica, because on every other Continent you could stand on a land mass that's part of a given continent (lets say for example the UK), and look across a body of water and see another piece of what is considers to be that same continent. 

 

With Antarctica, you cannot stand on another piece of the Continental Antarctica that is in of itself, separate from the main land (Ice does not count as land) 

 

Now I'm looking at photos of Antarctica, and I'm SEEING ISLANDS. SHIT. 

 

[minibois]

1 hour ago, TVwazhere said:

Ironically, I thought by this crazy definition, the only continent that could not be classified as an Island is Antarctica, because on every other Continent you could stand on a land mass that's part of a given continent (lets say for example the UK), and look across a body of water and see another piece of what is considers to be that same continent. 

 

With Antarctica, you cannot stand on another piece of the Continental Antarctica that is in of itself, separate from the main land (Ice does not count as land) 

 

Now I'm looking at photos of Antarctica, and I'm SEEING ISLANDS. SHIT.

This may have been more of a thought experiment than anything else

I have seen people tend to disagree with the OP of any thread, no matter the subject, but I also kind of was interested to see if people could set that aside and actually come up with arguments as to why they disagree.

[Anomnomnomaly]

A quick check if something is an island. is it surround on all sides by oceans or large straits... if the answer is yes... it's probably an island.

 

Africa, is surround on three sides by oceans and the 4th is split by a man made canal and a strait... so even putting the continent part of it aside as I have for the above statement... it still couldn't be considered an island.

[spartaman64]

4 hours ago, wasab said:

 

 

 

3 hours ago, minibois said:

 

 

3 hours ago, TVwazhere said:

 

there are lots of rivers that run ocean to ocean so would that make that chunk of land surrounded by the river its own island. Maybe a better definition is land surrounded by ocean rather than water

 

Edit: actually that wouldn't work because there are small islands in lakes maybe land surrounded by significant amounts of water relative to its size

[minibois]

5 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

there are lots of rivers that run ocean to ocean so would that make that chunk of land surrounded by the river its own island

By all the definitions people have given to me here for an island (and the three I shared in the OP) yea.

From what I quickly looked up beforehand though, there were not many interesting examples.

[spartaman64]

4 minutes ago, minibois said:

By all the definitions people have given to me here for an island (and the three I shared in the OP) yea.

From what I quickly looked up beforehand though, there were not many interesting examples.

But nobody considers that an island.

 

Edit: I guess there isn't much single rivers that do that but a combination of rivers

 

[minibois]

Just now, spartaman64 said:

But nobody considers that an island

The definitions I heard in this thread from other users would make it so they would count. Just one from this page:

Quote

A quick check if something is an island. is it surround on all sides by oceans or large straits... if the answer is yes... it's probably an island.

Of course you have a 'large' and 'probably' in this sentence..

 

My point with this thread is that you either:

a. think mainland Africa is not an island because the Suez channel doesn't count (not natural/too small)

b. think something this large can't be called an island (weak reason IMO)

c. think it doesn't follow the conventional thought of an island (which is when I would invite people to share their thought of the definition)

 

I have shared three reputable sources for a the definition of an island, which makes this part of the African continent fit the description of an island.

[PlayStation 2]

In a smartass type of way, every continent is an island. But acknowledging that we generally consider islands to be significantly smaller than whole continents, I wouldn't call any continent, Africa included, an island.

Your reasoning isn't particularly wrong, but I completely understand if people disagree with it, too.

[Mira Yurizaki]

Wikipedia says an island is a sub-continental landmass surrounded by water. If we went by this definition, wanted to get really technical about what constitutes "water", and considering Madagascar is part of the African continent, then sure, Africa is an island.

 

But since there's a section of it connected to Asia and the border is the Suez canal, which I believe is an artificial feature, I'd say no, Africa is not an island.

[Fake]

Africa isn't an island because the Suez canal was man made

Australia is because it's not linked to any other landmass

[bob345]

No, mainland Africa is not an island, neither is Australia by definition. Trying to bend and interpret definitions to further your argument really doesn't help your case. This is literally elementary school stuff here. Neither Africa, nor Australia are islands. Case closed.

[amdorintel]

I like your thinking, but the Suez Canal is the connecting factor right.

You could then argue from the Panama canal, to Alaska/NWT/Nunavut to east coast is a large island as well.

 

Right off the top, wiki states " An island or isle is any piece of sub-continental land that is surrounded by water.^[1] "

 

dictionary states about sub continent " A large landmass which is either smaller than a continent (such as Greenland), or part of an even larger continent (such as the Indian subcontinent). "

 

so there is that

[dalekphalm]

@minibois I would say that at best you could call "mainland Africa" an artificial island, if we are to consider the definition in it's strictest and most technical way, and also consider the Suez canal to fall under the definition of "water".

 

The problem is that the Suez Canal is smaller (width and length wise) than many natural rivers - some of which actually do split a continent in half.

 

So does that make Southern India an Island, because there are rivers that bisect the landmass in the northern section that run from the Arabian Sea to the Bay of Bengal?

 

That then begs the question, can an Island have an island inside of it and still be an island?

 

If that's the case, then Africa itself has many river networks that connect and ultimately split the landmass in half. The Nile River for example starts in the Mediterranean Sea and ultimately connects to the Congo River which goes to the Atlantic Ocean.

 

If the Suez Canal - a man-made feature - counts, then surely the Nile-Congo river complex counts too?

 

So perhaps it's more accurate to say that Mainland Africa is a series of islands closely grouped together? If we're being that technical after all.

[minibois]

6 hours ago, bob345 said:

No, mainland Africa is not an island, neither is Australia by definition. Trying to bend and interpret definitions to further your argument really doesn't help your case. This is literally elementary school stuff here. Neither Africa, nor Australia are islands. Case closed.

What definition am I bending?

The most precise definition states:

Quote

a tract of land surrounded by water and smaller than a continent

Mainland Africa fits this definition.

 

6 hours ago, Fake said:

Africa isn't an island because the Suez canal was man made

Australia is because it's not linked to any other landmass

Why is man-made an important distinction?

 

7 hours ago, Mira Yurizaki said:

Wikipedia says an island is a sub-continental landmass surrounded by water. If we went by this definition, wanted to get really technical about what constitutes "water", and considering Madagascar is part of the African continent, then sure, Africa is an island.

 

But since there's a section of it connected to Asia and the border is the Suez canal, which I believe is an artificial feature, I'd say no, Africa is not an island.

It's connected via a bridge, but there is still water around a landmass, unless you're referring to something else.

 

5 hours ago, amdorintel said:

Right off the top, wiki states " An island or isle is any piece of sub-continental land that is surrounded by water.^[1] "

This definition on Wikipedia links to the Meriam Webster definition, which I already went over in the OP.

Mainland Africa is smaller than the continent of Africa (since the continent is the mainland + Madagascar + more islands)

 

5 hours ago, amdorintel said:

dictionary states about sub continent " A large landmass which is either smaller than a continent (such as Greenland), or part of an even larger continent (such as the Indian subcontinent). "

the dictionary definition linked to does not mention 'sub continental', only 'smaller than a continent'. But mainland Africa still fits this definition.

 

4 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

@minibois I would say that at best you could call "mainland Africa" an artificial island, if we are to consider the definition in it's strictest and most technical way, and also consider the Suez canal to fall under the definition of "water".

 

The problem is that the Suez Canal is smaller (width and length wise) than many natural rivers - some of which actually do split a continent in half.

 

So does that make Southern India an Island, because there are rivers that bisect the landmass in the northern section that run from the Arabian Sea to the Bay of Bengal?

 

That then begs the question, can an Island have an island inside of it and still be an island?

 

If that's the case, then Africa itself has many river networks that connect and ultimately split the landmass in half. The Nile River for example starts in the Mediterranean Sea and ultimately connects to the Congo River which goes to the Atlantic Ocean.

 

If the Suez Canal - a man-made feature - counts, then surely the Nile-Congo river complex counts too?

 

So perhaps it's more accurate to say that Mainland Africa is a series of islands closely grouped together? If we're being that technical after all.

Artificial island is a subset of islands, because an artificial island still fits the definition of a normal island.

So far I have not seen any definition of an island mention the:

- size of the water stream(s)

- origin of water stream (human-made or not)

11 hours ago, spartaman64 said:

But nobody considers that an island.

 

Edit: I guess there isn't much single rivers that do that but a combination of rivers

If there was any stream of water that made it so a piece of land is completely encircled by water, it would count as an island by all the definitions I found.

[NineEyeRon]

Only my definitions are correct.

[minibois]

Looking into this a bit further, I went on Encyclopedia Brittanica to look up the definition of an island:

Quote

Island, any area of land smaller than a continent and entirely surrounded by water. Islands may occur in oceans, seas, lakes, or rivers. A group of islands is called an archipelago.

https://www.britannica.com/science/island

 

The may in this sentence leaves it open for interpenetration though. Same with the 'occur in'.

Does the may imply this is an incomplete list? (e.g. can it also occur in a channel?)

The 'occur', does that mean it can only be housed in 1? As in, you can combine a sea, ocean and river together to make something an island?

 

Also, it seems pretty clear to me most people in this thread would call mainland Africa a peninsula:

Quote

an area of land that is almost surrounded by water but is joined to a larger piece of land

https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/peninsula?q=peninsula

 

As they don't count the Suez Channel as water because it is man made, they surely see it as land? Thus it being a peninsula (mainland Africa being connected to Eurasia, a larger piece of land).

 

Looks like lot's of people count Greenland as the largest island, stating the difference between it and Australia being that Australia is a continent.

Which is an extremely weak reasoning, considering the mainstream idea of 'continent'. The mainstream definition is not fully agreed on, as a continent is:

Quote

one of the large land masses of the earth such as Europe, Asia, or Africa

so a 'continent' could be seen as a large piece of land or as the 7 parts of the world we see as continents. But those are more like 'regions', if you follow this definition.

 

If you follow this definition of continent, mainland Africa is a continent. Madagascar is not part of that continent by that reasoning. Following this logic, that would mean mainland Africa is not smaller than a continent (itself) and thus not an island. But by that reasoning, Australia is a continent and thus not an island (but by that logic, Tasmania is not part of the Australia continent).

But when is a land mass 'large'? Apparently Greenland is the limit, as that is not a continent.

[TechyBen]

15 hours ago, tankyx said:

Africa : Connected to Middle East, not an Island

Australia : Connected to nothing else, is an island

 

/thread

Are we talking about internet?

[NineEyeRon]

I think the main continental land mass cannot be the island, anything smaller than the largest land mass of a continent are the islands.

 

There is of course likely to be exceptions to that rule...

[Deli]

I think people fall for the trap of word by word of definition. Definition itself is created by man. Man can change the definition of things to suit their need. What counts more is "most" people agree/accept on certain things. If most people believe Africa is a continent, then it is a continent. Like Pluto isn't a planet by today's definition. We can't even agree if there are 5, 6 or 7 continents.

 

Of course you can start a movement and petition to return Pluto back to planet status. You can do the same for mainland Africa as a island. Or Mount Everest isn't the highest mountain.

[dalekphalm]

3 hours ago, minibois said:

What definition am I bending?

The most precise definition states:

Mainland Africa fits this definition.

 

Why is man-made an important distinction?

 

It's connected via a bridge, but there is still water around a landmass, unless you're referring to something else.

 

This definition on Wikipedia links to the Meriam Webster definition, which I already went over in the OP.

Mainland Africa is smaller than the continent of Africa (since the continent is the mainland + Madagascar + more islands)

 

the dictionary definition linked to does not mention 'sub continental', only 'smaller than a continent'. But mainland Africa still fits this definition.

 

Artificial island is a subset of islands, because an artificial island still fits the definition of a normal island.

So far I have not seen any definition of an island mention the:

- size of the water stream(s)

- origin of water stream (human-made or not)

If there was any stream of water that made it so a piece of land is completely encircled by water, it would count as an island by all the definitions I found.

 

2 hours ago, minibois said:

Looking into this a bit further, I went on Encyclopedia Brittanica to look up the definition of an island:

https://www.britannica.com/science/island

Due to this definition, I would therefore conclude that "Mainland Africa" is infact an archipelago, not an Island.

 

Why? Because if we allow that the Suez Canal disconnects it from the Middle East, we must also therefore allow for the fact that multiple river networks (particularly the Nile/Congo river complex) entirely bisects the continent, totally surrounding both the top half and the bottom half separately with water.

 

Therefore, at minimum, two islands (likely far more) - which is a group, which means it's an archipelago.

 

[Mira Yurizaki]

2 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

Therefore, at minimum, two islands (likely far more) - which is a group, which means it's an archipelago.

I didn't know the US was a bunch of islands either

 

(I'm sure these major rivers are connected to each other in some way via streams or smaller rivers)

[dalekphalm]

Just now, Mira Yurizaki said:

I didn't know the US was a bunch of islands either

 

(I'm sure these major rivers are connected to each other in some way via streams or smaller rivers)

Well yeah - the entire eastern seaboard of the US, straight down to Louisiana is an Island, since the Mississippi connects up to the great lakes and ultimately through the St Lawrence River out to the Atlantic Ocean.

[amdorintel]

10 hours ago, minibois said:

This definition on Wikipedia links to the Meriam Webster definition, which I already went over in the OP.

Mainland Africa is smaller than the continent of Africa (since the continent is the mainland + Madagascar + more islands)

North America has islands, Australia has islands that are apart of their continent.

That would disregard every continent as a continent.