The streaming service plague and why I am tired of playing by the rules.

[LogicalDrm]

4 minutes ago, poochyena said:

So netflix, prime, crunchyroll, vrv, and funimation all cost the same? I thought the ones with smaller libraries cost less. Feel free to prove me wrong.

 

Base price for pretty much all of them is $7 (or something like that). For HD Netflix goes to $10+. Thats as far as I have intrest of proving my point on that. Anything else would require full on research with VPN as I don't get US pricing by default. And in here the price for all is pretty much same €10.

 

4 minutes ago, poochyena said:

They wouldn't, and thats why I said Disney+ will have shows and movies not previously on netflix.

 

I would say to this same as you did for me earlier, feel free to prove me wrong. All news postings about this are on my side.

[WkdPaul]

28 minutes ago, poochyena said:

So you pay more money to get more shows.... whats the problem here exactly?

I explained that already, multiplication of streaming services = multiplications of the monthly bill

And let's be real here, people don't get a streaming service for ALL the shows that streaming service has, that's the issue here. If you want access to only 4 different shows and they are on 4 different streaming services, you have to subscribe to all 4 services even if you're not going to watch the other shows those services have.

 

I'm confused as to how this is difficult to understand?

 

Shows and movies are slowly getting segregated being different "pay walls", in the end, I'm better off going back to cable if the price is going to be the same.

 

Quote

Why are you not happy with just those two now? They didn't have all the shows cable had.

For me, Netflix, Prime and Tou.TV have MORE of the shows and movies I want, and for only a fraction of what I would pay for cable. I would LIKE to see these other shows, but because of the different streaming services I haven't.

 

Netflix and Prime are mainly aggregators (even if they have original offering), the MAIN issue here, is if every production company starts to segregate their show on their platforms, you'll end up with what cable looked like.

 

Not sure how else I can explain it, but the frustration is understandable. This isn't "fair competition" like online stores would be, we're talking about a subscription service that have varied entertainment offerings. It's as if each and every music label out there decided to open their own music streaming services and pulled their content from places like iTunes, Spotify, Google Music, etc ... do you REALLY think it would make for a better end-user experience???

 

 

EDIT : @LogicalDrm lol I thought I wasn't clear in my explanations, to be fair, English isn't my first language so I thought it was that, happy to see it's not the case as much as I thought it was!

Edited September 19, 2019 by wkdpaul

[Zodiark1593]

1 hour ago, Tristerin said:

As an ol' Sea Dog myself, who hasn't placed a foot on the Seven Seas in a couple years (sans for specific software, not entertainment) I have to agree.  I currently have Netflix, Youtube Red, Prime, Hulu, HBOgo, and Im sure a couple others my wife likely has a sub to (not complaining, I have Origin, Daybreak, and Blizzard drafting for my monthly gaming fixes) - but at some point enough is enough.  I have a home server with free terabytes of data available I just need to fill and cut the cord a second time

Perhaps Ill build a miniature, low cost pirate ship a Raspberry Pi NAS with some TBs soon too,

[Tristerin]

5 minutes ago, Zodiark1593 said:

Perhaps Ill build a miniature, low cost pirate ship a Raspberry Pi NAS with some TBs soon too,

 

Another avenue, if available or interested, is going to a local University and seeing what their old hardware they have for sale.  Usually can pick up a tower with an i3 or i5 second or third gen for next to nothing (wont include a drive for security reasons but those you will be stuffing it with anyhow) - well, around $40 (I found out about this after spending $140 on my refurb lol)

[poochyena]

8 minutes ago, LogicalDrm said:

Base price for pretty much all of them is $7 (or something like that).

For HD commercial free streaming, Hulu and netflix is $12, prime is $12 (paid yearly) or $13 (paid monthly), crunchyroll and funimation is $8, vrv is $10.
As you can see, no, they are not all the same price.

 

8 minutes ago, LogicalDrm said:

feel free to prove me wrong.

Here is a list of all the stuff you will be able to stream there https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/disney-plus-movie-tv-show-avengers-marvel-star-wars-uk-release-a9110286.html

Many were not available elsewhere.

1 minute ago, wkdpaul said:

multiplication of streaming services = multiplications of the monthly bill

Only if you pay for them all. You don't have to. You have the choice of paying more and getting more content. Thats a choice.

2 minutes ago, wkdpaul said:

If you want access to only 4 different shows and they are on 4 different streaming services, you have to subscribe to all 4 services even if you're not going to watch the other shows those services have.

I don't understand how you see that as a bad thing. I would rather pay $10 for each service once over the course of 4 months, rather than pay $40 one month for one big monopolistic company. And what about when only one of those services has shows you want? Its much cheaper to pick and choose niche services that has stuff you want, than one big service that just has a little bit of everything. If you only like anime, why would you pay extra for netflix that has a bunch of shows you don't care for, when you could spend less on funimation that doesn't include a bunch of shows you don't want?

8 minutes ago, wkdpaul said:

For me, Netflix, Prime and Tou.TV have MORE of the shows and movies I want, and for only a fraction of what I would pay for cable. I would LIKE to see these other shows, but because of the different streaming services I haven't.

So then whats the problem? Your situation hasn't changed at all, but you are now mad?

9 minutes ago, wkdpaul said:

the MAIN issue here, is if every production company starts to segregate their show on their platforms, you'll end up with what cable looked like.

Thats literally the opposite of cable. Cable is a lot like what hulu and netflix currently is, an aggregate. What you describe in your quote would be the best case scenario, we get to pick and choose what we want to pay for, rather than having to buy into a bunch of channels we don't want.

[WkdPaul]

@poochyena you're completely missing each and every points we're making. While I like to discuss things, this feels completely disingenuous and one-sided.

[lukasprime]

i dont pay for cable tv and never will, so im content being subscribed to netflix and probably apple tv+ when that comes out, anything more and im hoisting up the black skull n crossbones flag because i am not paying more than my unlimited data plan on my phone for tv lol

[Touch My Hamm]

2 hours ago, wkdpaul said:

Gotta agree here, I have Prime and Netflix, but there's some shows coming up that I want to see on other services. "Cable cutters" won't mean much anymore since we're back to having "packages" and a solution that isn't better than what started the "cable cutting" a decade ago!

 

We went from paying a cable company an increasing amount of money to access special packages only to have access to a few channels we wanted, to now paying different companies to have access to a few shows we want to have access to ... *sigh*

 

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------

EDIT

@MadmanRB and to everyone else

 

As a moderator, I feel like I should expand on the "no piracy" rule on the Community Standards

 

• We don't allow discussion on how to HELP with piracy (ex : how to do it generally, or posting specific links)
• Discussing piracy "in general" is fine

 

This thread falls on the second point ; we're discussing the state of a market that seems to push people towards piracy (as stated in the OP). So as long as we're talking about the unintended effect of an explosion of streaming services and no links (or how to get shows), it's going to be fine. If people post links or explain HOW to get copyrighted material, then the post is going to be removed and a warning issued.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Great business idea, Package streaming services like Netflix, Disney+, etc into one sub service with a layout that allows connections to all of them...Did we just move TV packages to the internet.....Isnt this the same thing but a different medium lol.

[WkdPaul]

2 minutes ago, hammjoel said:

Great business idea, Package streaming services like Netflix, Disney+, etc into one sub service with a layout that allows connections to all of them...Did we just move TV packages to the internet.....Isnt this the same thing but a different medium lol.

Actually, it's kinda what Netflix and Prime are, and they're less greedy than cable companies!!

 

But yeah, IMO, a content aggregator is better than what the market is slowly turning into right now, like I compared in my comment above ; it's like if every music labels started their own streaming services and pulled out of places like Spotify, Google Music, Prime Music, Apple Music, etc...

[LogicalDrm]

19 minutes ago, poochyena said:

For HD commercial free streaming, Hulu and netflix is $12, prime is $12 (paid yearly) or $13 (paid monthly), crunchyroll and funimation is $8, vrv is $10.
As you can see, no, they are not all the same price.

 

Here is a list of all the stuff you will be able to stream there https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/disney-plus-movie-tv-show-avengers-marvel-star-wars-uk-release-a9110286.html

Many were not available elsewhere.

You just proved yourself wrong on both points.... I would like to emphasize that "Many were not available elsewhere." was not the point we were arguing about. It was about whether Disney has taken Marvel and Star Wars brands off other streaming sites (which they have). And your link proves that to be the case.

[Touch My Hamm]

8 minutes ago, wkdpaul said:

Actually, it's kinda what Netflix and Prime are, and they're less greedy than cable companies!!

 

But yeah, IMO, a content aggregator is better than what the market is slowly turning into right now, like I compared in my comment above ; it's like if every music labels started their own streaming services and pulled out of places like Spotify, Google Music, Prime Music, Apple Music, etc...

I would love to have all my music providers, and TV providers all in one easy to manage app. The issue is that brings us full circle to the main problem again and again. I also like the competition since all these services compete for our money they bring out better and better shows instead of the plethora of sitcoms we had in the 80's and 90's where 1-2 where good but the rest where just awful (IMO). Just sucks having to change streaming app to watch the one or 2 shows I want to watch.

[poochyena]

4 hours ago, LogicalDrm said:

It was about whether Disney has taken Marvel and Star Wars brands off other streaming sites (which they have).

I don't see the problem though. If you want to watch those things, just get Disney+. It doesn't cost more. It doesn't require much effort to switch. You get lots of shows and movies.

You are given two options;

Get some disney content on Netflix
OR
Get all disney content on Disney+ and no disney content on netflix.

IMO, the 2nd option is an incredibly better deal for disney fans because they get more of what they want, so the price is relatively better. If I were a Disney fan, I'd be much happier paying for a service that (for example) has 100 shows I like (disney shows) rather than 50 shows I don't (trash reality tv) and 50 shows I do like (disney shows).

[kpluck]

10 hours ago, MadmanRB said:

Not so long ago there was a streaming service that had a vast collection of old movies, old TV and more.

This service was called netflix…

Was there another Netflix streaming service that I wasn't aware of? 90% of Netflix streaming offerings are garbage. It has been that way from the beginning. The only difference now is that they are starting to lose some of the only content that made them worth watching. And the new services won't be any different. They will all have a bunch of uninteresting filler and a much smaller number of shows you actually want to watch.

 

The simple solution is to bounce from service to service as your tastes dictate. There is no need to subscribe to them all at once, rather just use one after the other. Once you have accounts setup, it should be easy activate and deactivate as you wish.

 

-kp

[Arika]

5 hours ago, poochyena said:

Only if you pay for them all. You don't have to. You have the choice of paying more and getting more content. Thats a choice.

Except if you want to watch Show A, Show B and Show C, except that Show A is on Service X, Show B is on service Y and Show C is on service Z, then yes oyu DO have to pay for them if you want to watch the shows you want.

 

If you're claiming the "choice" is to just not watch then, then you have completely missed the entire point that everyone is saying...

[danomicar]

This is brutal and it's a real shame. The golden days of netflix having everything are far gone. All media corporations want a slice of the pie.

 

Eventually I think we'll see companies bundling subscriptions together in order to offer a better price. Ex. Get 5 services for the price of 3.

 

We're doomed to go back to the cable TV route, and there's not a damn thing we can do about. The only silver lining is that we won't be forced to watch whatever is currently being broadcasted. 

 

That's capitalism for ya!

[poochyena]

1 hour ago, Arika S said:

then yes oyu DO have to pay for them if you want to watch the shows you want.

Then just get one service once per month and switch each month. Back 10 years ago, you didn't go to blockbuster and rent every single dvd they have every month, you'd just get one or two at a time and trade them out for a different one once you've watched it.

Watch everything you want on one service, then switch to another. You aren't forced into any long contracts or anything.

1 hour ago, Arika S said:

If you're claiming the "choice" is to just not watch then, then you have completely missed the entire point that everyone is saying...

That is a choice and always has been. There never was or ever will be one single service with everything on it. You'll always have to pay more to get more. paying for more services gets you more content. If there are 5 movies you want to watch, it costs the same whether its on 1 service or 5 different ones. The benefit of multiple services is if there is only one movie you want to see, it will cost less on a service with a smaller library, so you can pay less compare to subscribing to a service with a huge library of content you don't want.

[BuckGup]

I wrote a report in school for an ethics class and piracy was at an all time low when Netflix introduced streaming instead of just DVD by mail. It's exploded exponentially in the past years

[Andreas Lilja]

At least you Americans have access to nearly all of these services. Canada? Never heard of it. 

[Trik'Stari]

Already there M8.

 

I stopped caring about these services when literally everything I wanted to watch was not on Netflix, all at once.

 

"oh but our original series!" yeah I don't fucking care about your original series, none of them are interesting to me.

 

Only thing I'll keep is Prime for the shipping.

[TempestCatto]

The one time/instance a monopoly makes sense. Just one huge and rich company to harbor all media forms. On one hand, competition is exactly what you want because you get more variety and lower pricing. But in cases like this, it seems to be the polar opposite. Unfortunately, the ability to license everything is very expensive, not to mention there's things companies just wont license for whatever reason. The next few years these streaming services will see a mass drop in use and will lose billions of dollars simply because of this. With the except of ads (for the most part) they went the same direction as cable/satellite TV. They are now both an antiquated and dying form of media consumption. Power users, and even some basic users, will always find an alternative. Legal or not, if someone wants something that bad, they will obtain it.

[mr moose]

You can't have your cake and eat it too.   you have no more right to demand a company give you product for free, which is essentially what you would be arguing for if you wanted disney to provide their content to you under your netflix service fee.  If the law was passed that withholding content was considered anti trust then we would see the price of all streaming services go up until it was almost the same as taking out a sub for all of them.

 

All in all the whole situation is shit,  but there are no real fair answers other than you have to pay for what you get.

[imreloadin]

8 hours ago, wkdpaul said:

@poochyena you're completely missing each and every points we're making. While I like to discuss things, this feels completely disingenuous and one-sided.

I've noticed that as a trend in the arguments they make in any kind of thread that most sane people would consider "anti-consumer" practices. They really seem like they want to pay more money for the same or less content

 

I don't get how it's difficult to comprehend.

The previous set up was this:

I paid $10 to stream the shows I wanted to watch on one platform.

 

Now it's like this:

I have to pay $5-$10 each for several different networks as they all pulled their shows from the one common platform to host exclusively on their own services.

 

It's like they drank a little too much of the "competition is good" kool-aid...

[kirashi]

13 hours ago, MadmanRB said:

Too many streaming services now, too much money out the door.

 

Personally I am just going to kill all my streaming service subscriptions, get a VPN and hoist up the jolly roger.

We've come full circle, going from a poor selection of Cable TV channels / theme packs, to the same thing but via IPTV based streaming services. And yet broadcasters & rightsholders still can't figure out why a subset of the public choose to acquire media illegally.

 

Now, it shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that a system designed to let consumers easily watch what they want, whenever they want, on whatever device they want for a low monthly price will bring in more paying customers than a system that does the opposite, but apparently the RIAA and MPAA need to hire one to advise them that segregating the market is going to make people christen their ships again.

[imreloadin]

9 minutes ago, mr moose said:

you have no more right to demand a company give you product for free, which is essentially what you would be arguing for if you wanted disney to provide their content to you under your netflix service fee.

You do realize that Netflix PAID Disney for the ability to offer their content for streaming right? Or do you really think that Disney was just doing that out of generosity to Netflix? So no...that is nothing like demanding a company to give us something for free...

[Kisai]

13 hours ago, TetraSky said:

Eeehh, you could also just pay for 1 month, every 6 month, binge watch EVERYTHING you've wanted to see on that platform and be done with that for the next 6 month... Will still be cheaper than a cable subscription.

That never happens. Why do you think some shows are released one episode at a time? And deliberately to overlap subscription periods.

 

Nah, the most likely scenario is that people will subscribe to the service they enjoy the most, and offers the most amount of content they want for one price. So the winner here will likely be Apple/Amazon since you can stream just about everything that ever came out due to their existing rental scheme. Netflix has market presence everywhere, so they're not going anywhere unless they screw the pooch by licencing stuff people aren't actually watching. I'd rather Netflix pay to produce original content than try to keep licencing shows for hundreds of million dollars that you can watch on TV for free due to every third channel already showing it. (Like really, Big Bang Theory? Which is shown by pretty much every channel when they need to fill time?) Get some rabbit ears if you want to watch network shows when they broadcast, otherwise pick up a cheap PVR, it will be net cheaper than trying to subscribe to one channel at a time to binge watch.

 

Some services like VRV and Hulu, are not available in Canada, and their corporate owners have generally being sloppy about making their content available outside the US, so you'll see high levels of piracy of any content that is "US exclusive", it doesn't matter who produces it.

 

It's already really well known that every single foreign animated show, and domestic animated show is available online, even if the corporations who own that IP haven't licensed it to anyone, and that is because animated shows are driven by merchandise sales, so the piracy crackdown matters less since the fans may still be buying the merch or discs when they're available.  It's just a pity that shipping prices are going to go up a whole lot due to the withdrawal of the US from the international postal treaty. So if you live outside the US, you may never be able to afford to buy merch from the US, and if you live inside the US you'll never be able to afford to ship outside the US.

 

There will be consequences for media companies. In an ideal situation, they would cross-licence each other's libraries in the same way cellular carriers share roaming costs in order to have seamless access for all of their customers. So if you subscribe to netflix and you want to watch Disney stuff every weekend, then Netflix can on-demand license their content. If you subscribe to netflix but exclusively watch Disney content, then you would be encouraged to maybe subscribe to Disney instead and watch the Netflix content in their app.

 

How many smart TV's will all these services support. Answer: None.

 

This is another problem with streaming services. No TV has all the apps presently, all smartTV's older than one year will never have them, so you'll have to buy yet another box to plug into your TV, and if half the apps are on one box, and half on another, now you have two boxes. Oh and you'll have to throw away the box every two years like a cell phone because the apps won't run on the old boxes any more either.

 

Like really the only winners in this streaming game will be whoever manages to get 100% of the TV streaming providers into a single app (eg AppleTV) that can then be deployed to all smartTV's without the streaming networks having to develop their own apps in-house.