iBone the Repair industry - Apple locks down batteries, marking own batteries as degraded

[rcmaehl]

6 minutes ago, harryk said:

Maybe for a cheap base model Corolla. Try doing that with a Mercedes which has sensors and controllable baffles inside the muffler. Heck on my VW, I swapped the license plate bulbs for LED's. Before it was reprogrammed, every time I started the car I got a warning that the bulbs were dead.

Most VWs aren't expecting LED blubs and expecting the resistance those bulbs those bulbs provide. This can be corrected using VCDS or wiring changes.

 

_{^{Not that I have a VW instrument cluster in my profile picture or anything}} 

[steelo]

1 minute ago, rcmaehl said:

Most VWs aren't expecting LED blubs and expecting the resistance those bulbs those bulbs provide. This can be corrected using VCDS or wiring changes.

Wow...so an incorrect headlight can throw a code?

 

Just wow.

[rcmaehl]

5 minutes ago, harryk said:

Have you ever swapped wheels on a modern car with TPMS? On some systems you have to reprogram the car's ECU to read the pressure monitors from the new wheels.

This is more out of necessity than anything. I'm sure you don't want your car picking up tire pressure of other nearby cars.

[steelo]

2 minutes ago, rcmaehl said:

This is more out of necessity than anything. I'm sure you don't want your car picking up tire pressure of other nearby cars.

Good point. You also want to ensure it is calibrated correctly.

 

As far as the battery 'sensor', this is just a money grab and a ploy to give iphone lemmings 'piece of mind'. I'm sure some will say it's for 'security purposes', to ensure the battery is 'Apple certified' LOL

[harryk]

3 minutes ago, steelo said:

Yes I have, and it's right there in the manual how to do it on my Honda. I didn't even need a special tool.  

 

Harley does something very similar with their motor oil...part of the reason why I will never buy a Harley 

Lucky you. For my parent's Subaru they had to buy a $200 tool to do it. For their Mercedes they have to go to a deanship or authorized shop.

 

2 minutes ago, steelo said:

I have a motorcycle with O2 sensors, I am still able to install a non-OEM muffler. It's a matter of screwing the existing sensors into the new muffler.

My point isn't that ALL components need reprogramming, but with the increasing amount of tech in cars more and more components do. And the auto industry already has a history of it.

 

1 minute ago, rcmaehl said:

Most VWs aren't expecting LED blubs and expecting the resistance those bulbs those bulbs provide. This can be corrected using VCDS or wiring changes.

 

1 minute ago, rcmaehl said:

This is more out of necessity than anything. I'm sure you don't want your car picking up tire pressure of other nearby cars.

Correct. But it doesn't change the fact that the ECU needed reprogramming, which is my point. Some repairs need reprogramming.

[Blademaster91]

21 minutes ago, Thaldor said:

With only affecting actually shit batteries it would be fair. But when it affects even in the case when the battery is taken from brand new iPhone and put into another same model iPhone, it turns into Apple waging war against independent repair shops, because even if those shops were to use authentic Apple batteries, there still would be customers demanding returns and raging over "service the battery" like that shop would have replaced the battery with authentic one and just because they wouldn't have the iProgram to sign off the battery.

And "losing money"... Apple charges 200$ for a battery change and independent repair shop charges around 50$. That is what I call a plain old ripoff (no, the battery itself cannot cost more than 20$ at max for Apple and the needed work takes probably 30 mins at top so as wages that doesn't even make 10$).

Exactly, this is the point people are missing, even if an independent shop used an OEM Apple battery, the customer would still get the "service the battery" message. Of course the customer would get upset and wonder if the shop even replaced their battery. This is ridiculous and clearly is just trying to make the third party repair business look bad, its like changing your own car battery and still having a check engine light.

2 minutes ago, harryk said:

Maybe for a cheap base model Corolla. Try doing that with a Mercedes which has sensors and controllable baffles inside the muffler. Heck on my VW, I swapped the license plate bulbs for LED's. Before it was reprogrammed, every time I started the car I got a warning that the bulbs were dead.

Getting a warning light for changing a few bulbs is weird, I wouldn't mind if you can just hook up a cheap scan tool,but with most high end cars you need the dealer to fix it.

And silly things like that is why I don't mind having a basic car, the best way to avoid these anti-consumer practices it is just not buy it, or at least don't buy new.

[harryk]

3 minutes ago, steelo said:

Good point. You also want to ensure it is calibrated correctly.

 

As far as the battery 'sensor', this is just a money grab and a ploy to give iphone lemmings 'piece of mind'. I'm sure some will say it's for 'security purposes', to ensure the battery is 'Apple certified' LOL

So I don't want to ensure my iPhone battery is correctly calibrated? Because that it absolutely one reason to enforce genuine batteries only.

[steelo]

4 minutes ago, harryk said:

Lucky you. For my parent's Subaru they had to buy a $200 tool to do it. For their Mercedes they have to go to a deanship or authorized shop.

 

My point isn't that ALL components need reprogramming, but with the increasing amount of tech in cars more and more components do. And the auto industry already has a history of it.

 

 

Correct. But it doesn't change the fact that the ECU needed reprogramming, which is my point. Some repairs need reprogramming.

Interestingly enough, I have yet to hear anything about Samsung, LG, HTC, etc 'requiring' their phone batteries to have a chip...for, errr..."security purposes" 

 

Anyways, we're talking about a $500-$1,000 phone vs $40k cars here...

 

 

[ARikozuM]

This is an issue for multiple industries, not just Apple. Independent mechanics, tech shops, and even machinists are getting pushed aside by large corporations that don't know where else to get their profits from. You can only make so much money before having to resort to this. 

 

If you support right to repair, you should support it for everyone and against every large corporation. There's only so much control that should be afforded a company of John Deere's, Cat's, Apple's, or BMW's size. 

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, harryk said:

So I don't want to ensure my iPhone battery is correctly calibrated? Because that it absolutely one reason to enforce genuine batteries only.

But you HAVE a genuine battery! That's what was provided from the repairshop! a GENUINE A type brand new battery from Apple!

 

You simply pay $50 instead of $200...

 

But you still get the error message!

[rcmaehl]

11 minutes ago, harryk said:

Correct. But it doesn't change the fact that the ECU needed reprogramming, which is my point. Some repairs need reprogramming.

This would be like installing Ni-MH battery in a modern phone and wondering why the charging circuit is having issues. Yes, some repairs need reprogramming, but if you stay within OEM specifications you shouldn't have issues.

 

11 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

I wouldn't mind if you can just hook up a cheap scan tool,but with most high end cars you need the dealer to fix it.

 And silly things like that is why I don't mind having a basic car, the best way to avoid these anti-consumer practices it is just not buy it, or at least don't buy new.

I'd say this is more along the lines of regulations not keeping up with technology. VW was ahead of the game with their CAN system back in 2000, and now other manufacturers are following suit with more and more electronics. The ODB standard needs to be updated to account for the additional TCM, CCM, and other modules in vehicles. On the plus side, I can add tons of features to my 03 Passat by just connecting 4 wires (CAN High, CAN Low, Power, Ground)

[Trik'Stari]

1 hour ago, SenKa said:

I smell a lawsuit...

It is BEYOND time for Apple to get sued, for so many things.

[ARikozuM]

1 minute ago, Trik'Stari said:

It is BEYOND time for Apple to get sued, for so many things.

The best thing would be to split the company to iPad/iPhone and Mac or by hardware and software. 

 

All industries need to start providing the ability for independents to do repairs, even if it requires a low-cost license and training program, and order replacement OEM parts for longer than just 10 years (I would like to see 15 be the norm). 

[TetraSky]

Apple really is going above and beyond with this shit...

But as long as people are willing to buy their products, they'll keep doing this to "ensure their devices meet their standards of quality".

 

Apple has been putting these kind of chips/microcodes in their products for a long time now to prevent people from using third party hardware, so this was the next "logical step" for them.

[Pickles von Brine]

12 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

The best thing would be to split the company to iPad/iPhone and Mac or by hardware and software. 

 

All industries need to start providing the ability for independents to do repairs, even if it requires a low-cost license and training program, and order replacement OEM parts for longer than just 10 years (I would like to see 15 be the norm). 

Tbhis is why the Right to Repair is so important. I work in the repair industry and this just sucks. 

[Trik'Stari]

12 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

The best thing would be to split the company to iPad/iPhone and Mac or by hardware and software. 

 

All industries need to start providing the ability for independents to do repairs, even if it requires a low-cost license and training program, and order replacement OEM parts for longer than just 10 years (I would like to see 15 be the norm). 

I agree completely. Although I'm sure they'd find some way to make all of that fucky and unreliable.

[ARikozuM]

Just now, Trik'Stari said:

I agree completely. Although I'm sure they'd find some way to make all of that fucky and unreliable.

Of course they would. That's why we need a gov't that isn't afraid to stomp its foot for the people affected by this. 

[Zodiark1593]

I was strongly considering switching to Iphone myself in the future, but if this turns out to be a problem (as I tend to keep devices for a long time, and stuff like security updates and battery wear tend to be concerns), then I probably won't do so. 

[schwellmo92]

42 minutes ago, Cora_Lie said:

But you HAVE a genuine battery! That's what was provided from the repairshop! a GENUINE A type brand new battery from Apple!

 

You simply pay $50 instead of $200...

 

But you still get the error message!

Yes you do have a genuine battery, but the phone has no way to truly know that unless a trusted person tells it so. There are many OEM-like products that imitate the original products by spoofing this sort of thing (knockoff lightning cables are the same). I don't think this situation is as clear-cut as people think and I highly doubt it is solely a cash grab, I would be interested in knowing from Apple directly, the reasons for doing this.

[schwellmo92]

Just had a read of the actual issue, holy shit talk about blowing things out of proportion, some people will take any chance to shit on Apple. If you have a non-authorised person change the battery, the only adverse affect you have is if you go in to 'Settings' > 'Battery' > 'Health' it will not tell you the battery health (i.e. max capacity 90%), instead it will have a warning about being unable to verify the battery as being genuine.

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, schwellmo92 said:

Yes you do have a genuine battery, but the phone has no way to truly know that unless a trusted person tells it so. There are many OEM-like products that imitate the original products by spoofing this sort of thing (knockoff lightning cables are the same). I don't think this situation is as clear-cut as people think and I highly doubt it is solely a cash grab, I would be interested in knowing from Apple directly, the reasons for doing this.

So... you answered to my comment without reading and watching the video 1st?

 

Interesting...

 

@schwellmo92 labelled: "Don't give a s*** what he says in the near future until he learns how to get uptodate first!"

[mr moose]

 

1 hour ago, harryk said:

Nearly all Lithium battery have some form of control chip so nothing new there.

 

If an iPhone battery is replaced with a non-genuine battery there's no guarantee the control chip is returning correct and safe information so its reasonable that Apple would not want to utilize possibly invalid battery info in iOS when it comes to power management. 

 

The controller on lithium batteries is generic and only there to monitor charge an discharge to prevent the battery from exploding.  It is purely a safety device and isn't even a micro controller.   What apple are putting in here is completely different and completely unnecessary.  It serves absolutely no purpose, if a dud battery is put in the ios software should read the battery condition accurately enough for the consumer/repairmen to know the battery is dead, they don't need false signals making all batteries look dead just because apple didn't do the repair.

 

 

[Blademaster91]

32 minutes ago, schwellmo92 said:

Yes you do have a genuine battery, but the phone has no way to truly know that unless a trusted person tells it so. There are many OEM-like products that imitate the original products by spoofing this sort of thing (knockoff lightning cables are the same). I don't think this situation is as clear-cut as people think and I highly doubt it is solely a cash grab, I would be interested in knowing from Apple directly, the reasons for doing this.

The issue here is a "trusted person" meaning only an Apple store can reset the "service battery" message, it seems really clear to me that this is a anti-repair industry cash grab to get people to come into the store and pay $200 for a $50 battery. And the reason Apple would probably give is some battery "safety" excuse.

[spartaman64]

i have a samsung note 4 and i bought a replacement 3rd party anker battery for it. after 2 years it still hasnt exploded yet. theres nothing magical about oem batteries lots of manufacturers can make batteries that are the same/better quality. in fact one of them might be the same manufacturer for the oem battery

http://www.desaybattery.com/ this is the company that makes the iphone x batteries

[NumLock21]

I find it ironic, Apple is doing this when their phones have one of the easiest entry points when it comes to replacing the battery. All of them have 2 of those tiny screws next to the lightning port, remove those and you're good to go.

Other phones where you can change the battery on your own, there is no easy entry point as there is no screws on the outside, so you have to hope opening it does not break a plastic tab or anything.