New Sound Blaster AE-9 and AE-7 audiophile sound cards coming soon

[HanZie82]

Sigh if you use SPDIF you send the direct digital signal to the AMP.
All the electronics that make these cards nice is circumvented then...
Analogue out FTW
But yeah 350 is to much for me. But ive not seen any MIDI inputs either, which i would need.

[jasonvp]

8 minutes ago, HanZie82 said:

Analogue out FTW

Right.

 

Quote

But yeah 350 is to much for me. But ive not seen any MIDI inputs either, which i would need.

Hrm.  I've not seen MIDI on any of their recent(ish) cards.  They are offering an upgrade from older models; I was able to get a small chunk off for the purchase.  I agree though, it's still something to consider carefully given the price.  Easy for me; I've been using the ZxR since it was launched 6(ish?) years ago.  Time for a new one.

 

[HanZie82]

15 minutes ago, jasonvp said:

Right.

 

Hrm.  I've not seen MIDI on any of their recent(ish) cards.  They are offering an upgrade from older models; I was able to get a small chunk off for the purchase.  I agree though, it's still something to consider carefully given the price.  Easy for me; I've been using the ZxR since it was launched 6(ish?) years ago.  Time for a new one.

 

Oh really? I still need the MIDI to connect my drum set so i can play them again. (They make no sound witouth PC also doesnt have acontrol box).
Most sound cards used to come with MIDI, i had to have the breakout box tho. Thats a shame.
But yeah this onboard is not doing it for me. It feels low quality to me, altho its not a crappy one. Im just spoiled. Also i need new speakers since this Z5500 has developed a high pitch wine thats totaly unacceptable. (Maybe i should just recap it...)

[mr moose]

6 hours ago, HanZie82 said:

Sigh if you use SPDIF you send the direct digital signal to the AMP.
All the electronics that make these cards nice is circumvented then...
Analogue out FTW
But yeah 350 is to much for me. But ive not seen any MIDI inputs either, which i would need.

 

You can get USB midi adapters,  I have one for my sons midi, he uses it with FL studio and ableton. They aren't that expensive.

 

 

[haloharry97]

Am happy with my Sound blaster X7

[TetraSky]

On 7/10/2019 at 1:51 PM, RejZoR said:

To my luck, my country is excluded from the program, but my neighbor Italians have it. WHY YA DO THIS TO ME!

Now you know how it feels to live in Quebec.

 

 

Honestly, if it's priced right, I might get the cheaper model. I loved my old Asus STX and the sound/features it provided compared to the realtek junk... But it was literally killing my hearing so I had to part with it. (link to video/audio (AUDIO WARNING, LOWER YOUR VOLUME) youtube doesn't do it justice, just imagine that kind of sound, but 10x when you least expect it because it was seemingly random)

[williamcll]

Do these support those HD DAC audio things?

[RejZoR]

23 minutes ago, williamcll said:

Do these support those HD DAC audio things?

What do you mean with "HD DAC audio things"? It has HD DAC's. They can process audio as high as 32bit 384kHz and DAC's are ESS Saber which are highly regarded. That's as HD as it can ever get.

[Raytsou]

On 7/11/2019 at 4:37 AM, mr moose said:

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Audio_woo#cite_note-2

 

 

Do you know what an op amp is supposed to do?  A properly designed circuit utilizing an op amp as either a buffer or amplifier will not change the audio signal at all.  Once an op amp and it's circuit achieves this it doesn't matter how much it costs, that's it's limit,  it can't get better sound quality.  If the signal is the same or any difference is beyond audible observation then one can be $20 and the other can be $2000 and they will both sound the same.

 

 

I got a C in my circuits class so help me out here.
I think it's not quite that simple. It's a DAC, which iirc has an output dependent on the number of switches. I don't remember the math but it's not able to output every voltage. Since digital audio is stored discretely, there needs to be at least a certain amount of switches to be able to match the source, which implies a certain complexity to the circuit.
Also, noise was mentioned earlier, and I assume there may be some form of filter to remove noise?
And what about signal degradation due to the impedance of the circuitry? Needing to amplify the signal also amplifies the noise.
What I'm saying it, I think there's a lot more engineering than just simple op-amp circuits.

[mr moose]

6 hours ago, Raytsou said:

I got a C in my circuits class so help me out here.
I think it's not quite that simple. It's a DAC, which iirc has an output dependent on the number of switches. I don't remember the math but it's not able to output every voltage. Since digital audio is stored discretely, there needs to be at least a certain amount of switches to be able to match the source, which implies a certain complexity to the circuit.
Also, noise was mentioned earlier, and I assume there may be some form of filter to remove noise?
And what about signal degradation due to the impedance of the circuitry? Needing to amplify the signal also amplifies the noise.
What I'm saying it, I think there's a lot more engineering than just simple op-amp circuits.

 

There certainly is a lot more to it,  however for the purpose of this discussion a lot of it is being misrepresented.    What the others in this discussion don't seem to understand is:

 

The DAC only converts digital to analogue, that's it's job.  It can actually produce all voltages because the output is a summation of the input, not a specific representation of it at any one point in time.

 

The OP amps job is to either amplifier the DAC output to line level, buffer the output to mitigate any loading issues or actually just supply a higher current to drive headphones (basically a buffer because headphones have a lower impedance than a line level input).  

 

The crux of the issue in this conversation (the bit being misrepresented) is that it does not matter if we are buying a headphone amp, sound card, USB dac/sound device or profession audio interface, op amps and dacs have reached their peak.   This sound card has not got better DACs or opamps than any other good quality (and by that I mean DAC/opamp device at he US$70-80).   Nor is it better designed.   This is why the whole idea of being able to swap op amps is marketing guff,  if it were truly something you could do to attain a different sound you would have to change the other component values rather than the op amp itself. 

 

The true difference between this product and any other sound device is the software and the DSP (which may just be an off the shelf job anyway, they tend be in most cases).   If that's something people are willing to pay for because they can't get a product like it elsewhere,  then more power to them. However, the argument that this card can produce better sound quality because of its DAC and OP amps just doesn't hold up. 

 

I hope that wasn't to rambly.

[Mira Yurizaki]

21 minutes ago, mr moose said:

However, the argument that this card can produce better sound quality because of its DAC and OP amps just doesn't hold up.

I'm thinking since the DSP stage is done before the DAC stage, the DSP may be processing everything in a higher quality format to avoid accumulation of errors and to avoid downsampling the final result, the DAC can be fed the said higher quality values from the get go.

 

But whether or not that really means anything is up in the air.

[mr moose]

1 hour ago, Mira Yurizaki said:

I'm thinking since the DSP stage is done before the DAC stage, the DSP may be processing everything in a higher quality format to avoid accumulation of errors and to avoid downsampling the final result, the DAC can be fed the said higher quality values from the get go.

 

But whether or not that really means anything is up in the air.

Yep, in a manner of speaking.

 

A DAC can only convert what it's given, if you give it a shitty compressed signal then it'll reproduce a shitty artifact-y audio signal.  A DSP (basically being a purpose built processor) can either process the required volume of data without lagging or it can't.   It is highly unlikely that the DSP in this is sub par for the job at hand, especially given they are a dime a dozen and come with so many options we are seeing them pop up in everything from speakers and amplifiers to measurement equipment.  

[pas008]

3 hours ago, mr moose said:

 

There certainly is a lot more to it,  however for the purpose of this discussion a lot of it is being misrepresented.    What the others in this discussion don't seem to understand is:

 

The DAC only converts digital to analogue, that's it's job.  It can actually produce all voltages because the output is a summation of the input, not a specific representation of it at any one point in time.

 

The OP amps job is to either amplifier the DAC output to line level, buffer the output to mitigate any loading issues or actually just supply a higher current to drive headphones (basically a buffer because headphones have a lower impedance than a line level input).  

 

The crux of the issue in this conversation (the bit being misrepresented) is that it does not matter if we are buying a headphone amp, sound card, USB dac/sound device or profession audio interface, op amps and dacs have reached their peak.   This sound card has not got better DACs or opamps than any other good quality (and by that I mean DAC/opamp device at he US$70-80).   Nor is it better designed.   This is why the whole idea of being able to swap op amps is marketing guff,  if it were truly something you could do to attain a different sound you would have to change the other component values rather than the op amp itself. 

 

The true difference between this product and any other sound device is the software and the DSP (which may just be an off the shelf job anyway, they tend be in most cases).   If that's something people are willing to pay for because they can't get a product like it elsewhere,  then more power to them. However, the argument that this card can produce better sound quality because of its DAC and OP amps just doesn't hold up. 

 

I hope that wasn't to rambly.

I'll agree around 99.999%

Like almost any decent modern dac's accuracy

 

But op amps can alter the sound because they are changing variables in the circuit

is it great/right/better/etc? Blah! sound preferences are user defined

 

After many years of spending thousands on dac amps sound cards mixers mics headphones speakers think i have retired from it its a fucking money pit for slight changes

Still trying to get rid of some lol

[Tieox]

And here is me about to order a £20 soundcard to run a 3.5mm to my Sony stereo which runs two floorstanders, and some how produces sound that suits my picky ears from onboard but due to interference I'm thinking basic soundcard  

[mr moose]

2 hours ago, pas008 said:

But op amps can alter the sound because they are changing variables in the circuit

is it great/right/better/etc? Blah! sound preferences are user defined

 

Yes they do, but it's not just the chip itself, its the whole circuit. so swapping out just the IC without changing anything else is less dramatic than even a shit EQ.

I am in the same boat as you,  I've done my time and wasted enough money.  I enjoy music..

[Mira Yurizaki]

3 hours ago, pas008 said:

After many years of spending thousands on dac amps sound cards mixers mics headphones speakers think i have retired from it its a fucking money pit for slight changes

Still trying to get rid of some lol

What's fun is even the circuitry isn't the entire battle. It's your environment. Audio is a very finicky mistress and even the slightest change in the environment can change how the audio sounds. This can be anything from the environment affecting the circuit itself (apparently temperature fluctuations can alter the sound) to how you're positioned, how the room is laid out, how the speakers are pointed, etc.

 

Audio is basically the epitome of chaos theory realized.

[mr moose]

2 hours ago, Mira Yurizaki said:

What's fun is even the circuitry isn't the entire battle. It's your environment. Audio is a very finicky mistress and even the slightest change in the environment can change how the audio sounds. This can be anything from the environment affecting the circuit itself (apparently temperature fluctuations can alter the sound) to how you're positioned, how the room is laid out, how the speakers are pointed, etc.

People don't realise just how much difference the room makes,  the position of the furniture speakers, etc.   The most expensive, top end gear can sound like $20 garbage setup wrong for the room.

 

Keeping an eye on the temp is important for outdoor events,  It really does make a difference if you setup during the day and sound test while the sun is out, but when you start the performance 8 hours later and the temp has dropped enough that the air is so dense that the sound starts bouncing.  Oh so much fun.

 

2 hours ago, Mira Yurizaki said:

Audio is basically the epitome of chaos theory realized.

This is why some people are just good at it and others need to work hard to learn it,  It's a complex science that can be like a second nature if your brain is geared for it. 
 

[pas008]

6 hours ago, Mira Yurizaki said:

What's fun is even the circuitry isn't the entire battle. It's your environment. Audio is a very finicky mistress and even the slightest change in the environment can change how the audio sounds. This can be anything from the environment affecting the circuit itself (apparently temperature fluctuations can alter the sound) to how you're positioned, how the room is laid out, how the speakers are pointed, etc.

 

Audio is basically the epitome of chaos theory realized.

 

4 hours ago, mr moose said:

People don't realise just how much difference the room makes,  the position of the furniture speakers, etc.   The most expensive, top end gear can sound like $20 garbage setup wrong for the room.

 

Keeping an eye on the temp is important for outdoor events,  It really does make a difference if you setup during the day and sound test while the sun is out, but when you start the performance 8 hours later and the temp has dropped enough that the air is so dense that the sound starts bouncing.  Oh so much fun.

 

This is why some people are just good at it and others need to work hard to learn it,  It's a complex science that can be like a second nature if your brain is geared for it. 
 

yeah back in the day without room correctness was a mess at times

good thing there is audyssey and others now to help you calibrate

and many didnt even have compensation shit to help fix things

 

its nice and those mics included to configure room correction fit perfectly on a most lamps if you didnt have a tripod

 

and I will always laugh at people saying vss for headphones suck

maybe you dont know how to set it up correctly lol

not every game has binaural or settings to compensate for 3d sound for headphones

 

and hesuvi is very nice letting you use almost any kind of vss now

[jasonvp]

11 minutes ago, Schnoz said:

What is the 6-pin connector for?

To power the desktop box, which can provide +48V phantom power to a condenser mic.

[kokakolia]

My ~2 cents:

 

- I bought several $100 DACs which make absolutely no difference (in my uh...pinion!) compared to onboard audio: the Audioquest Dragonfly Black and the Nuforce uDAC. Surprisingly, the $15 iPhone headphone dongle measures better than the Audioquest Dragonfly Black (on a very zoomed-in graph about noise-floors which doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things) . And everybody trash-talks the Apple dongle as much as they praise the Dragonfly. In my experience, headphone amps make a bigger difference by boosting the bass. Even a cheap $40 headphone amp will give you a "bigger sound", but careful with the dangerous volume levels. 

- You really have to focus to hear minute details in your music. Visual distractions like a computer screen with loads of information distracts you from the music. 

 

It's like most DACs perform so well that they sound boring. They're meant to not color the sound. 

[AnonymousGuy]

Quote

 with its ultra-low 1Ω headphone output impedance.

Lol, it's trash.  My IEMs are 8 ohm impedance, my $99 amp is 0.1 ohm output impedance.

 

At least it's somewhat better than their shitty Zx products where the impedance is like 12 ohms or something and unusable for IEMs.

 

Did they fix the inputs being noisy as hell due to noise from the rest of the desktop?

[pas008]

3 hours ago, AnonymousGuy said:

Lol, it's trash.  My IEMs are 8 ohm impedance, my $99 amp is 0.1 ohm output impedance.

 

At least it's somewhat better than their shitty Zx products where the impedance is like 12 ohms or something and unusable for IEMs.

 

Did they fix the inputs being noisy as hell due to noise from the rest of the desktop?

 

What is your amp?

 

These companies prolly never thought that iems were in the mix for desktop

 

Noise from pc to pc is hard variable to determine considering everyone doesn't have same configuration

[RejZoR]

AE-9 is scheduled for 12 August 2019. Just no info whether that's most retailers or just Creative store...

[AnonymousGuy]

15 hours ago, pas008 said:

 

What is your amp?

 

These companies prolly never thought that iems were in the mix for desktop

 

Noise from pc to pc is hard variable to determine considering everyone doesn't have same configuration

At home it's the JDS Labs Atom.  It's pretty much the standard now for what you can achieve at a low(ish) price.  At work it's the Element (more expensive mainly because metal case and it has a DAC in it).  Because I use a condenser mic in both places I have to use a separate DAC / preamp that then drives line outs to the Atom or Element.

 

Creative is marketing the AE-9 towards IEM use because the manual says that's what the lowest position of one of the switches is for.  But I don't understand why they wouldn't get serious and get deep sub-1ohm when even $70 amps manage that (O2 amp).  Even the Apple headphone adapter is 1 ohm.

 

I'm also not even getting into how totally dog shit Soundblaster software is.  SBZ Switcher shouldn't need to exist to support basic shit than Creative should have supported from the beginning (like syncing master volume and spdif volume).  (And SBZ Switcher has stopped development and only works on SB Zx cards).  Every new product though Creative just reskins the same shitty software.  No one (HT Omega included) makes good soundcard software that isn't 10+ years old.

[RejZoR]

Since Sound Blaster Z, software was fine. They just seriously need to stop making new software for every new device they release with basically the same functionality. It's impossible to maintain so much stuff long term which is why most of stuff just remains outdated after few years unless it's top of the line product for which they give a damn tiny bit.

 

As for pinnacle of crappy software, ASUS is still the king. Xonar Essence was amazing from hardware side, but I haven't seen any software this bad as ASUS's. Not to mention they literally don't provide ANY support for soundcards. That is even actually good for Creative as they are pretty good at it in last few years.