Tesla Unveils Model Y

[Drak3]

1 hour ago, lufihengr said:

but it is the car of today.

Far from it.

 

3 hours ago, Hiya! said:

i dont understand the point of electric cars.

Ego stroking and/or buying into hysteria/propaganda.

[Jurrunio]

6 hours ago, justpoet said:

Hyundai Kona- $36450 MSRP, 258mi range, 201hp/291ftlb torque (0-60 in 6.4 sec via CarAndDriver) - 2wd FWD only, no awd

Tesla Model Y- $39000 MSRP, 230mi range, no ratings (0-60 in 5.9 sec via Tesla) - 2wd RWD, Not being manufactured until 2021

Tesla Model Y- $51000 MSRP, 280mi range,  - AWD, not being manufactured until late 2020

Performance version expected to be close to 400hp to hit 0-60 in 3.5 sec at $60k, but Tesla doesn't appear to have given any specifics.

Can drift versus cannot drift, Tesla wins

[Drak3]

Just now, Jurrunio said:

Can drift versus cannot drift, Tesla wins

Whatever you say Tokyo Driftwood.

[cj09beira]

3 hours ago, Hiya! said:

i dont understand the point of electric cars.

they use lithium ion right? there is not enough of those thing on earth for all of us so i dont think electric car will replace gasoline car anytime soon..

they dont actually use much of it per cell though, and i have seen people do the math, we do have enough lithium 

5 hours ago, pinksnowbirdie said:

meh its the Tesla for the guy or gal who wanted a Model X was too broke to buy one.

 

I dunno, just personally kinda bored of Tesla lol

also not super duper convinced electric cars are the car of the future.

energy efficiency wise its definitly the future, its a great way to be able to use all kinds of energy sources, 

gas engines are quite ineficient, except for those giant tanker ship engines which have over 50% energy efficiency

while electric systems can be over 80 % efficient with much less effort and weight

[cj09beira]

2 minutes ago, Jurrunio said:

Can drift versus cannot drift, Tesla wins

fwd cars can drift, it just has to be going backwards 

[Jurrunio]

1 minute ago, cj09beira said:

fwd cars can drift, it just has to be going backwards 

No it will only spin around. You will need to get rear wheel steering work at a larger angle as well.

[cj09beira]

4 minutes ago, Jurrunio said:

No it will only spin around. You will need to get rear wheel steering work at a larger angle as well.

using a few mods they can also drift "normaly"

 

[Hiya!]

13 minutes ago, cj09beira said:

they dont actually use much of it per cell though, and i have seen people do the math, we do have enough lithium 

But they didn't last forever and need to be replace..dont take me wrong i love a concept like this but i think there are more gasoline than lithium on our planets.

I do remember reading an article it says while devices that contain lithium can actually be recycled..there is no recycling technology capable of yielding lithium pure enough for use in new lithium ion batteries another issue is the growing demand for truly rare metals like cobalt and graphite in which are used to create li-ion batteries

 

Perhaps if we can find another power source for electric car other than lithium maybe..an energy that is easy to find on our planet and available in a large number like gasoline..then we might see electric car like tesla become ubiquitous..

 

 

[cj09beira]

1 minute ago, Hiya! said:

But they didn't last forever and need to be replace..dont take me wrong i love a concept like this but i think there are more gasoline than lithium on our planets.

I do remember reading an article it says while devices that contain lithium can actually be recycled..there is no recycling technology capable of yielding lithium pure enough for use in new lithium ion batteries another issue is the growing demand for truly rare metals like cobalt and graphite...

 

Perhaps if we can find another power source for electric car other than lithium maybe..an energy that is easy to find on our planet and available in a large number like gasoline.

 

 

from real miles done with teslas, these batteries can last a long time, and gasoline is not a great energy source, its great in terms of making mobile systems that are cheap, but in the long term its not great considering all the problems that come from burning it, and we still need loads of plastic and other derivitives of crude, so the less we use on powering our cars the better.

cobalt supply is a problem, but its use is quite small, and each year they use less and less cobalt (mostly because it has an instable supply chain due to the biggest exporter being in a war right now), graphite can be made if needed.

if i was in charge of something like the Us or europe i would invest in nuclear, its by far the most efficient energy source.

 

[Hiya!]

6 minutes ago, cj09beira said:

cobalt supply is a problem, but its use is quite small, and each year they use less and less cobalt (mostly because it has an instable supply chain due to the biggest exporter being in a war right now), graphite can be made if needed.

if i was in charge of something like the Us or europe i would invest in nuclear, its by far the most efficient energy source.

 

It use quite small but if we are about to mass produce this type of car it will require lots of it..graphite can be made yes but again its quite difficult and expensive to produce especially the high grade one.

 

True but i don't think we will see a nuclear powered car being mass produce anytime soon..although those are quite a dangerous one.

 

[cj09beira]

Just now, Hiya! said:

It use quite small but if we are about to mass produce this type of car it will require lots of it..graphite can be made yes but again its quite difficult and expensive to produce especially the high grade one.

 

True but i don't think we will see a nuclear powered car being mas produce anytime soon.

 

the idea is to have nuclear power as the source of our electrical power, sorry for not being clear.

 

[Blademaster91]

18 minutes ago, cj09beira said:

from real miles done with teslas, these batteries can last a long time, and gasoline is not a great energy source, its great in terms of making mobile systems that are cheap, but in the long term its not great considering all the problems that come from burning it, and we still need loads of plastic and other derivitives of crude, so the less we use on powering our cars the better.

cobalt supply is a problem, but its use is quite small, and each year they use less and less cobalt (mostly because it has an instable supply chain due to the biggest exporter being in a war right now), graphite can be made if needed.

if i was in charge of something like the Us or europe i would invest in nuclear, its by far the most efficient energy source.

 

Do those batteries last as long as most gas engines that can easily get to 100k miles?

Electric using lithium batteries isn't a viable long term solution either, mining metals such as lithium and cobalt are just as harmful to the environment, but the hype is pushed and and rich hipsters feel better by not pumping gas into their cars.

[cj09beira]

6 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

Do those batteries last as long as most gas engines that can easily get to 100k miles?

Electric using lithium batteries isn't a viable long term solution either, mining metals such as lithium and cobalt are just as harmful to the environment, but the hype is pushed and rich hipsters feel better by not pumping gas into their cars.

100k should be around 300-400 cycles mark, and these batteries are usually rated for something like 70% battery capacity at ~500 cycles so 100k is not a problem

edit:500 cycles not 1000, though it depends on discharge current, trying to look for a datasheet with numbers close to what a testla battery would be put trough

[BisquTz]

Im just waiting for the Tesla hatchback, maybe wont be as in demand in the US (I know you guys go big or go home) but in UK and the rest of Europe will sell like crazy

[Blademaster91]

10 minutes ago, BisquTz said:

Im just waiting for the Tesla hatchback, maybe wont be as in demand in the US (I know you guys go big or go home) but in UK and the rest of Europe will sell like crazy

I'd like to see a 2 door coupe or hatchback, I must be one of the few weird people in the US that still wants a hatchback over a crossover or SUV.

13 minutes ago, cj09beira said:

100k should be around 300-400 cycles mark, and these batteries are usually rated for something like 70% battery capacity at 1000 cycles so 100k is not a problem

It could also depend how often you're using the battery to full capacity, city driving wouldn't be a problem but when you need to drive more than 200-ish miles would be a lot more cycles. I'm just wondering as the few reviews i've seen of a used model S needed either new motors or batteries before 100k/160k km.

[HarryNyquist]

14 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

Electric using lithium batteries isn't a viable long term solution either, mining metals such as lithium and cobalt are just as harmful to the environment, but the hype is pushed and and rich hipsters feel better by not pumping gas into their cars.

Not to mention that, in the US anyway, coal is still a very primary source of electricity. If you increase power usage to the grid by charging your "green" electric car, the plants must increase output, which involves burning more coal.

 

If electric cars as a whole are to be really actually clean, new battery tech & more green power solutions are needed. (say, more nuclear/wind/solar?)

[Jurrunio]

16 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

Do those batteries last as long as most gas engines that can easily get to 100k miles?

Electric using lithium batteries isn't a viable long term solution either, mining metals such as lithium and cobalt are just as harmful to the environment, but the hype is pushed and and rich hipsters feel better by not pumping gas into their cars.

because storing electricity is at least more viable than onboard combustion? Mining pollutes the mining site, combustion though pollutes every place the car goes.

[BisquTz]

1 minute ago, Blademaster91 said:

I'd like to see a 2 door coupe or hatchback, I must be one of the few weird people in the US that still wants a hatchback over a crossover or SUV.

 

checkout the VW e golf. https://www.volkswagen.co.uk/new/golf/explore/e-golf
It only has 144 miles battery, which I feel like Tesla could top easily

 

[cj09beira]

2 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

I'd like to see a 2 door coupe or hatchback, I must be one of the few weird people in the US that still wants a hatchback over a crossover or SUV.

It could also depend how often you're using the battery to full capacity, city driving wouldn't be a problem but when you need to drive more than 200-ish miles would be a lot more cycles. I'm just wondering as the few reviews i've seen of a used model S needed either new motors or batteries before 100k/166k km.

this 70% rating is quite extreme, its a 3A continuous discharge to 2.5v then 2A charge to max and repeat, with the batteries on cars should see much less abuse, and are usually not charged or discharged to the bottom or top which is where battery degradation happens.

about the reliability it will take a while before we can start seeing what the batteries and motors are really able to do, as i see testla as a teenager, has some good ideas but lacks the experience to not trip on some common mistakes.

so right now for the older models its hard to say what is inherent to the design and what is tesla making mistakes

[cj09beira]

6 minutes ago, HarryNyquist said:

Not to mention that, in the US anyway, coal is still a very primary source of electricity. If you increase power usage to the grid by charging your "green" electric car, the plants must increase output, which involves burning more coal.

 

If electric cars as a whole are to be really actually clean, new battery tech & more green power solutions are needed. (say, more nuclear/wind/solar?)

really the best is nuclear unless you guys want to pay over 40 cents/Kwh (thats what i get for having the highest percentage of "renewable" energies in europe)

[cj09beira]

we should do our bests to not ignore tech, we should look at them all and actually find out which is best at what, we often loose good tech because of some misunderstandings. like my favorite molten salt reactors developed in the 60s and thrown away just because people had a bad opinion of nuclear 

[Ithanul]

8 minutes ago, HarryNyquist said:

Not to mention that, in the US anyway, coal is still a very primary source of electricity. If you increase power usage to the grid by charging your "green" electric car, the plants must increase output, which involves burning more coal.

Coal counts for 27.4%.  But, it counts to the total 63.5% from fossil fuels.  So, coal is not necessarily the majority, but fossil fuels do count for over half.

U.S. electricity generation by source, amount, and share of total in 20181
Energy source	Billion kWh	Share of total
Total - all sources	4,178
Fossil fuels (total)	2,651	63.5%
Natural gas	1,468	35.1%
Coal	1,146	27.4%
Petroleum (total)	25	0.6%
Petroleum liquids	16	0.4%
Petroleum coke	9	0.2%
Other gases	12	0.3%
Nuclear	807	19.3%
Renewables (total)	713	17.1%
Hydropower	292	7.0%
Wind	275	6.6%
Biomass (total)	63	1.5%
Wood	41	1.0%
Landfill gas	11	0.3%
Municipal solid waste (biogenic)	7	0.2%
Other biomass waste	3	0.1%
Solar (total)	67	1.6%
Photovoltaic	63	1.5%
Solar thermal	4	0.1%
Geothermal	17	0.4%
Pumped storage hydropower3	-6	-0.1%
Other sources	13	0.3%

 

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3

[Automobili3XF]

I really can't get excited about Teslas.

Sure, the technology is there but build quality is subpar and their designs are as boring as they could possible be.

[HarryNyquist]

21 minutes ago, Ithanul said:

Coal counts for 27.4%.  But, it counts to the total 63.5% from fossil fuels.  So, coal is not necessarily the majority, but fossil fuels do count for over half.

-table snipped-

https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3

TIL, though I'd consider something with almost half the 63% to be a "primary" source.

 

Glad to see natgas up there, even if the methods to get it are not great. Would LOVE to see more nuclear though.

[cluelessgenius]

im starting to dislike teslas whole styling. the model s looked fine. the model 3 was excused cause it was a cheaper version and at least reminded you slightly of the model s the model x i never understood, wasnt that already a SUV? or was that supposed to be a multivan? and now this thing. it kinda looks like you bought a model x clone on gearbest. idk it just lacks a soul. there no character there. i feel nothing looking at it. certianly not excitement. 

but this has been a trend over the past year or so . everyone and there mom is releasing a new electric SUV/Crossover style car. i hate it. in my opinion a car needs to suit your needs. and so i drive a small 2 seat (usable ones anyway) convertible. because im not driving groups of people around every day and i dont drive longe range and so i like a bit of fun in the summer. but somehow everyone mother apparently needs a 3 ton SUV with a step ladder to get into so they can buy groceries more effectivly. im sick of this shit. unless you regularly drive off road you dont need the ground clearance of a truck. and unless. and if you have 5 kids to move around all day get multivan with sliding doors like normal moms. im sick of being stuck behind people in their ego stroking self worth compensating giant SUV on their way to work...alone. 

so this became more of a rant against SUVs in general but its still valid if someone says there a new electric car by XYZ i can practically garuantee its gonna be a SUV