Apple Contractor; CSAT Solutions, Poor Working Conditions and Repair Standards

[Carclis]

Recently Louis Rossmann reached out to a CSAT Solutions employee who made complaints about the working conditions and repair quality at his place of employment as a U.S. based repair facility contracted by Apple. After verifying that the person was indeed an employee of CSAT Solutions Louis asked numerous questions to ascertain some of the key complaints and gain a better understanding of why the employee was claiming the repair standards to be dubious.

 

Firstly, CSAT Solutions is a U.S. based company which is contracted to repair Apple devices and has to meet quotas set by Apple. Allegedly these quotas are unrealistic if the employees are to work no overtime or complete the repair work properly which leads to 12 hour working days, something which is not mentioned by the employer. Other concerns raised are about overcrowded facilities such as cafeterias which employees need to fight over  due to the limited number of tables and also the restroom which is allegedly the only one serving around 500 employees. There are also complaints made regarding low wages, poor quality of air, the inability to bring mobile phones on site, no possibility of career advancement and also the incredibly large proportion of the workforce that are Vietnamese and who do not speak English. Presumably the latter is because the Vietnamese have a culture of being hard working and also because they would be less likely to complain about the working conditions.

The other set of allegations being made are that company policies enforced by Apple such as meeting their quotas to get repairs done in a timely manner lead to poor repair standards. As mentioned above the quotas are unrealistic without overtime and half-assing some jobs which means that some employees who do not wish to work the overtime and don't care as much about the product will take the latter option. One such example is the practice of calling boards faulty because it takes too long to obtain the firmware password, which results in perfectly good boards being thrown away and added cost to the consumers. On top of that the company is happy to employ people who have no past experience with computers or repairs and has only a short introduction/training period which is mostly about the company processes (which are outdated) and only has a small portion on product disassembly but nothing in the way of troubleshooting it. Finally the employee also raised concerns about the dubious quality of refurbished components they received to replace the faulty ones with, stating that it was not uncommon to receive another faulty component amongst the refurbished parts.

Do note that all of these statements are mostly from one employee that was interviewed by Louis Rossmann although the sentiments seem to be largely mirrored here, here.and here (they changed their name due to poor reputation). Louis has also said that numerous others have reached out to him about CSAT Solutions and that he will potentially come forward with more information if he can confirm that the employees are legitimate.

 

Apple:

Quote

The Apple Supplier Code of Conduct details protections for our suppliers’ employees, including proper living conditions, fair working hours and workplace safety. Suppliers are required to inform their employees about these protections when they are hired, and employees are guaranteed safe, anonymous channels to voice concerns if they arise. The Code’s policies and standards apply to our partners at all levels, from material sourcing all the way to manufacturing, and are expected to be upheld even when they exceed local, regional and national laws. In addition to these core protections, we’ve taken further steps, implementing programs designed to educate and provide opportunities for career advancement.

 

Quote

By diverting manufacturing waste from landfill, we are reducing impacts on the environment and safeguarding the communities where our products are made. Our Zero Waste Program is a partnership with suppliers who join us in protecting the environment. To achieve a Zero Waste to Landfill certification through Underwriters Laboratories (UL), a factory must divert 100 per cent of its waste from landfill, with a maximum of 10 per cent being sent to waste-to-energy facilities. In 2017, 100 per cent of our final assembly facilities for iPhone were zero waste certified. To help all of our suppliers achieve this objective, we offer tools and guidance, including the services of leading experts in sustainable waste management solutions.

Personally I don't think many people will find the above allegations surprising as that's exactly what we have known Apple to be doing for years now. But it's a shame to see that the repair facilities which are set up in the U.S. in order to provide a fast turnaround time for customers fall victim to the same ruthless cost cutting measures that seek to push out products as fast and cheaply as possible that are typically what you would see in third world countries. The same can be said for the working conditions which are appalling considering the location, which should in theory make it easier for Apple to validate for the "fair working conditions" that they pride themselves in striving for. It's also amusing to see that their ambitions of reducing waste and saving it from landfill are also far surpassed by those same cost-cutting measures.

[Radium_Angel]

33 minutes ago, Carclis said:

appalling

See, here's the thing:

 

A business is only in business to make money.

Lots and lots of money apparently. 

If a business can get away with something, and by "get away" I mean past whatever gov't is in charge, then they will. The court of public opinion holds no sway when money is at stake.

And given the current administration of the USA is run by an ex-businessman, who sees nothing wrong with "money above all else" then corporations will see this as a free pass to do whatever it takes to make as much money as possible.

 

So treating their employees good, bad, or indifferent, makes no difference to them, so long as it doesn't impact their bottom line. This goes especially double in tech, where virtual monopolies tend to be common. 

[Ertman]

I hope people hold all companies to the same standards and diligently investigate them for similar behaviour. I'd hate that people would just go after one company but ignore the industry just to make a point.

[Trik'Stari]

1 hour ago, Radium_Angel said:

See, here's the thing:

 

A business is only in business to make money.

Lots and lots of money apparently. 

If a business can get away with something, and by "get away" I mean past whatever gov't is in charge, then they will. The court of public opinion holds no sway when money is at stake.

And given the current administration of the USA is run by an ex-businessman, who sees nothing wrong with "money above all else" then corporations will see this as a free pass to do whatever it takes to make as much money as possible.

 

So treating their employees good, bad, or indifferent, makes no difference to them, so long as it doesn't impact their bottom line. This goes especially double in tech, where virtual monopolies tend to be common. 

The problem that I see, is that if we were to start taking away the shareholders "rights" to require them to actually allow a company treat people properly, they'll just move overseas.

 

The only solution I see in that eventuality is to go to the patent office and start burning their patents and copyrights, allowing local companies to take up those products in return for slightly lower levels of profit. Basically take the "someone will do it for less" mentality that most employers have towards employees, and turn it back around on them.

 

In my opinion, that's more "free market" than what we have now. Patents and copyrights last far too long as it is.

[Radium_Angel]

34 minutes ago, Trik'Stari said:

The problem that I see, is that if we were to start taking away the shareholders "rights" to require them to actually allow a company treat people properly, they'll just move overseas.

 

The only solution I see in that eventuality is to go to the patent office and start burning their patents and copyrights, allowing local companies to take up those products in return for slightly lower levels of profit. Basically take the "someone will do it for less" mentality that most employers have towards employees, and turn it back around on them.

 

In my opinion, that's more "free market" than what we have now. Patents and copyrights last far too long as it is.

I agree in theory, but what you are ending up with is the gov't deciding who gets to do what, and with what, and that smacks dangerously close to fascism (the classic term, where gov't is closely in control of private sector affairs)

 

My idea, and I'm not certain it would work, would simply to add a huge tax onto companies treating those workers poorly, and give the money back to said affected workers, but again, treads a dangerous line. 

 

This is a tricky subject and not one (I suspect) us geeks here at LTT, are likely to solve, short of voting with out wallet. 

[Carclis]

2 hours ago, Radium_Angel said:

See, here's the thing:

 

A business is only in business to make money.

Lots and lots of money apparently. 

If a business can get away with something, and by "get away" I mean past whatever gov't is in charge, then they will. The court of public opinion holds no sway when money is at stake.

And given the current administration of the USA is run by an ex-businessman, who sees nothing wrong with "money above all else" then corporations will see this as a free pass to do whatever it takes to make as much money as possible.

 

So treating their employees good, bad, or indifferent, makes no difference to them, so long as it doesn't impact their bottom line. This goes especially double in tech, where virtual monopolies tend to be common. 

That's all well and good but businesses aren't people and whether or not they actually benefit anybody other than the shareholders or ruin the lives of everybody else is of zero importance to them. Those are the exact reasons that we regulate them in the first place. Now I'm not saying that we need to go all out and regulate everything but a few key issues such as employees skipping lunch breaks and working 12 hour shifts are unspoken rules that were not disclosed when the job was advertised. I'm not 100% positive if it's illegal to not give your employees breaks in the U.S. but it certainly is here. Those are two things that certainly deserve some looking into, and at the very least Apple should be held accountable for their deceptive claims instead of being able to get away with boasting about how they're doing so much to improve the standard of living all around the world.

Quote

The Apple Supplier Code of Conduct details protections for our suppliers’ employees, including proper living conditions, fair working hours and workplace safety. Suppliers are required to inform their employees about these protections when they are hired, and employees are guaranteed safe, anonymous channels to voice concerns if they arise. The Code’s policies and standards apply to our partners at all levels, from material sourcing all the way to manufacturing, and are expected to be upheld even when they exceed local, regional and national laws. In addition to these core protections, we’ve taken further steps, implementing programs designed to educate and provide opportunities for career advancement.

The other point which nobody has touched on yet was actually supposed to be the focus of this news post and that's regarding the quality standards that refurbished products are held to. Considering that is ultimately the issue that directly affects the consumer I'd expect a great deal of concern over the fact that Apple themselves are choosing to outsource their repairs and in such a way that reduces the quality to such an extent that the people doing it are embarrassed by it. Not to mention the fact that Apple themselves go to great lengths to stomp out competing repair shops citing "quality concerns". Quite ironic I'd say.

[BuckGup]

Basically every large company is like this nowdays

[Blademaster91]

18 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

Basically every large company is like this nowdays

I'd agree that about every company contacts out a repair service, but it doesn't really excuse Apple to do the same when they shouldn't be ignoring the poor conditions and quality of the service they are using,  while also going to excessive lengths to shut out competing repair shops that have been performing better quality repairs.

[Carclis]

32 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

Basically every large company is like this nowdays

I'm not sure I follow you. So because everybody does something that is unethical/illegal It's perfectly fine since everybody is going to be just as screwed as the next person? The thing is Apple is probably the most profitable company in the world, or at least extremely high up there and they have become the company to follow. Other companies tend to do what the most successful company does, and if Apple can get away with shit working conditions in the U.S. and giving zero fucks about whether a refurbished product is on the verge of failing due to half-assed diagnosis because their consumers are happy to accept it, then everybody else has to put up with other companies following that trend.

As far as I'm concerned Apple can continue to operate in the way that it does, but not if it wants to claim to be an ethical company as it does as part of the marketing. And if Apple wants to block third party repairs then it shouldn't be worse at repairing its own products than the companies that are supposedly providing repairs of "questionable standards".

[BuckGup]

6 minutes ago, Carclis said:

I'm not sure I follow you. So because everybody does something that is unethical/illegal It's perfectly fine since everybody is going to be just as screwed as the next person? The thing is Apple is probably the most profitable company in the world, or at least extremely high up there and they have become the company to follow. Other companies tend to do what the most successful company does, and if Apple can get away with shit working conditions in the U.S. and giving zero fucks about whether a refurbished product is on the verge of failing due to half-assed diagnosis because their consumers are happy to accept it, then everybody else has to put up with other companies following that trend.

As far as I'm concerned Apple can continue to operate in the way that it does, but not if it wants to claim to be an ethical company as it does as part of the marketing. And if Apple wants to block third party repairs then it shouldn't be worse at repairing its own products than the companies that are supposedly providing repairs of "questionable standards".

I am saying the problem is larger than Apple. It is the most valuable but people act like they are the only ones to get traffic to their site

[Carclis]

6 minutes ago, BuckGup said:

I am saying the problem is larger than Apple. It is the most valuable but people act like they are the only ones to get traffic to their site

As far as I'm aware no other company behaves the way that Apple does and claims to be doing its darndest to improve living standards and working standards around the world. Have you actually seen this?

[BuckGup]

1 minute ago, Carclis said:

As far as I'm aware no other company behaves the way that Apple does and claims to be doing its darndest to improve living standards and working standards around the world. Have you actually seen this?

That mostly looks like Foxconn and such workers. Which I don't really believe. The only thing I would is that they are made from recycled aluminum 

[DrMacintosh]

2 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

but it doesn't really excuse Apple to do the same when they shouldn't be ignoring the poor conditions and quality of the service they are using

It’s very likely that they don’t know. Last time these cries or poor working conditions came about Apple released a public statement, investigated, and then dropped the offending contractor as a partner. 

 

Apple isnt lying about what they belive im, CSAT is covering themselves up. 

[Stefan Payne]

Problem is that the Market isn't really free and that shady companys abuse them.

 

Problem is the H1B Slave Worker Visa that should be gotten rid of without Alternative (also something made clear in the Video).

 

Problem is that big Companys have too much power and don't allow real repair. Also something mentioned in the Video.

Solution: Get the darn Right to Repair Bill through the Senate, make it into law and punish the companies that are in the way of people repairing stuff well.

 

Problem is that due to various circumstances Companies can abuse and misuse people. And one of the solution to that Issue is blocked by certain people in the Gouvernment for stupid reasons...

 

The Market works, if it is controlled correctly and the rules are more towards the smaller companys, not the big ones...

 

3 hours ago, BuckGup said:

Basically every large company is like this nowdays

This way of thinking is the Problem. And also that one has to buy some thing from such companies for no reasons.

 

If people wouldn't think this nonsense and punish those companies doing this shit with their wallet, it wouldn't happen. 

But since you think that "oh well, all are this shit", nothing will change. Nothing can change.

 

And that line of thought brought us here...

 

The Gouvernment is rarely the solution and more often than not the Problem...

[Teddy07]

55 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

It’s very likely that they don’t know. Last time these cries or poor working conditions came about Apple released a public statement, investigated, and then dropped the offending contractor as a partner. 

 

Apple isnt lying about what they belive im, CSAT is covering themselves up. 

You forgot: This post is sponsored by Apple

 

Jokes aside, I disagree. Apple is interested in profit and not their workers well being. They sometimes just drop contractors to avoid controversy.

[Rohith_Kumar_Sp]

6 hours ago, Radium_Angel said:

See, here's the thing:

 

A business is only in business to make money.

Lots and lots of money apparently. 

yes, but the way they make is really the point, you don't here the same issues by other companies who do repair, it's not as closed off or expensive, do they have a time restriction, well yeah, but you're bound to get a good repair, the point of the video is that in apple, you're really not treated properly/your product is not really treated as anything special, making things worse by having everything soldered to motherboard only increased the cost if you have to replace one part, other phone manufacturers simply do not replace your whole mother board just because they didn't have time to ask for your password, and add to the fact apple neither sells parts or give parts before hand to Apple certified owners and lock you out if you do go to a 3rd party repair even though you replaced parts from another apple phone. nothing apple does is pro consumer in the case of customer service. on the other hand samsung sells each and every parts on their own website. and costs 30 bucks to replace a shattered back panel which is costly by design at apple service. so if you are really paying for their support, they should atleast treat your device properly.

[Curufinwe_wins]

Being perfectly frank...  stuff like that helps explain the well known AWFUL quality of Apple first party repairs.

 

So... I guess the good news is that maybe Apple can do something about it... if they want to.

[Blademaster91]

4 hours ago, DrMacintosh said:

It’s very likely that they don’t know. Last time these cries or poor working conditions came about Apple released a public statement, investigated, and then dropped the offending contractor as a partner. 

 

Apple isnt lying about what they belive im, CSAT is covering themselves up. 

I have to disagree, I doubt Apple could be that uninformed about their contractor, especially since Apple first party repairs are known for being awful enough that some users have to send in their device more than once for the same issue.

[Radium_Angel]

5 hours ago, Carclis said:

Quite ironic I'd say.

Not really. If you have a monopoly, let's take, oh I dunno, an Airbook Pro (or whatever they call them these days) and it's so fragile that looking at it sideways, it breaks, you have three options:

 

(1) Take it back to Apple and get hosed on repair costs but a company that knows they have you by the short hairs

(2) Take it to a 3rd party place and hope they are good enough to fix the issue (and given that Apple continually makes it hard for 3rd party places to get the tool, knowledge and parts to do it right, this is highly questionable)

(3) Admit you got hosed, leave the cult of Mac, and go buy a system that can be repaired by mortal men.

 

The last one is a trick to pull off...

[Donut417]

8 hours ago, Trik'Stari said:

The problem that I see, is that if we were to start taking away the shareholders "rights" to require them to actually allow a company treat people properly, they'll just move overseas.

Yeah but there are things in the US called Labor Laws. There is a possibility the company is violating some, either at the Federal or State Level. 

[Trik'Stari]

3 hours ago, Donut417 said:

Yeah but there are things in the US called Labor Laws. There is a possibility the company is violating some, either at the Federal or State Level. 

Oh I don't doubt it at all.

[Carclis]

7 hours ago, Radium_Angel said:

Not really. If you have a monopoly, let's take, oh I dunno, an Airbook Pro (or whatever they call them these days) and it's so fragile that looking at it sideways, it breaks, you have three options:

 

(1) Take it back to Apple and get hosed on repair costs but a company that knows they have you by the short hairs

(2) Take it to a 3rd party place and hope they are good enough to fix the issue (and given that Apple continually makes it hard for 3rd party places to get the tool, knowledge and parts to do it right, this is highly questionable)

(3) Admit you got hosed, leave the cult of Mac, and go buy a system that can be repaired by mortal men.

 

The last one is a trick to pull off...

That's the thing though. Apple has made its own bed and now has to lay in it. Their devices are hard to repair for both third parties and their own staff and that's why they outsource it in the first place. And because they made the things so damn hard to work on they aren't repaired properly by almost anybody, even when done by Apple officially. The irony is that Apple complains that repair quality is substandard when coming from a third party and their actions to restrict the abilities for those that are not certified repairers have resulted in their own repairs becoming substandard. This same move has also resulted in those third party repairers that were great at it to begin with becoming better than Apple since they were competent to begin with.

[Stefan Payne]

22 hours ago, Radium_Angel said:

A business is only in business to make money.

Well, not necessarily, it depends on the Business.

 

There are some product oriented Business, especially in Germany for example the "Zweckverband", "Wasserbeschaffungsverband" (something like Water Aquisition Syndicate j/k, no its more like Water Aquisition Union. The other One is an Organization that provides with some necessarities like Trash, Natural Gas for Heating and so on and its there to provide that service, not make money)

[Radium_Angel]

1 hour ago, Stefan Payne said:

Well, not necessarily, it depends on the Business.

 

There are some product oriented Business, especially in Germany for example the "Zweckverband", "Wasserbeschaffungsverband" (something like Water Aquisition Syndicate j/k, no its more like Water Aquisition Union. The other One is an Organization that provides with some necessarities like Trash, Natural Gas for Heating and so on and its there to provide that service, not make money)

Are those gov't agencies?