More marketing speech - AMD: "Doing the work for everyone"

[exyia]

http://community.amd.com/community/amd-blogs/amd-gaming/blog/2014/01/08/doing-the-work-for-everyone

 

 

 

 

 

...

 

...we decided some time ago that those decisions would be guided by a basic principle: our goal is to support moving the industry forward as a whole, and that we're proud to take a leadership position to help achieve that goal.

 

...

 

- Jay Lebo - AMD Product Marketing Manager

 

 

 

I don't want to quote the whole thing, so please follow the direct source link to read the rest.

 

--- This ends the news portion of the post. I have problems with this marketing boasting, which I'm about to semi-rant about below. So feel free to skip if the opinion doesn't matter (or if you're a loyal AMD fanboy) ---

 

**To preface, before fanboys just cry that I'm an AMD hater, my outlook on AMD as a company has already been put out there here:http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/84090-amd-a-love-letter/?p=1146086

If there was anybody that would be an AMD fanboy, it would be me - but as a whole business they have done nothing but disappoint for years. Anyway, the following I have problems with...

 

 

 

 

The latest example of that philosophy is our work withy dynamic refresh rates, currently codenamed "Project FreeSync". Screen tearing is a persistent nuisance for gamers, and vertical synchronization (v-sync) is an imperfect fix. There are a few ways the problem could be solved, but there are very specific reasons why we're presuing the route of using industry standards.

 

 

 

 

As you read this snippet and the rest of the post, it's clear Jay Lebo is trying to be the "good guy". But I have problems with this marketing soap-boxing:

 

Calling it FreeSync is nothing but a shot at g-sync. There is nothing in the technology that implies "Free" in the name. Sync makes sense, but free? This is technology of dynamic refresh rates - where did free come from? If you want to be the "good guy", quit the mud slinging act.

 

 

 

 

The most obvious reason is ease of implementation, both for us from a corporate perspective and also for gamers who face the cost of upgrading their hardware. But the more important reason is that it's consistent with our philosophy of making sure that the gaming industry keeps marching forward at a steady pace that benefits everyone.

 

 

 

 

So you did this for gamers?

 

Let's see....

- This was a very quiet reveal. You had one of the biggest and most expensive reveals with Hawaii, so we know AMD is not about "quiet reveals"

- This was revealed on NON-GAMING laptops

- The initial implementation was for power savings

Two sources:

http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/174371-amd-claims-it-can-offer-the-benefits-of-nvidias-g-sync-with-a-free-driver-update-nvidia-rebuts-fight

 

 

 

Multiple generations of AMD video cards have the ability to alter refresh rates on the fly, with the goal of saving power on mobile displays.

 

 

 

 

and another:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7641/amd-demonstrates-freesync-free-gsync-alternative-at-ces-2014

 

 

 

According to AMD, there's been a push to bring variable refresh rate displays to mobile for a while now in hopes of reducing power consumption...

 

 

 

 

It seems clear from both the presentation and the explanation from AMD at CES, that this was being developed for entirely different reasons - saving power and improving mobile performance. Those are perfectly fine reasons, as that is both the weakest part of AMD (part of it's massive downfall and the whole motivation of acquiring ATi in the first place) and the most prosperous for this mobile-oriented industry.

 

But we have this marketing boasting that this was for gamers? I wonder if that would be the case if nvidia DIDN'T unveil G-sync...

 

 

 

 

Multiple generations of AMD video cards have the ability to alter refresh rates on the fly, with the goal of saving power on mobile displays.

 

...

 

AMD has stated that the reason the feature didn't catch on was a lack of demand...

 

http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/174371-amd-claims-it-can-offer-the-benefits-of-nvidias-g-sync-with-a-free-driver-update-nvidia-rebuts-fight

 

 

 

Look AMD. If you want to portray yourselves as the "prophets" of moving technology forward, quit the mudslinging. Let your products and technology speak for themselves, because that's all anybody cares about - THE RESULTS. No amount of marketing speak is going to convince us a bad product is good, and will only make you look silly if it backfires.

 

I think most of AMD's marketing has been stupidly offensive - rather than representative to their own products.

"The Fixer" was grossly over-aggressive.

The Hawaii event was a little over the top for stuff we still haven't seen

Hosting an event down the streat from nvidia's Montreal event was childish imo

Marketing the 290x as the "Titan Killer" did nothing but backfire. The 290x is a great card on it's own merit, boasting it as a "Titan killer" has done nothing but invite criticism

 

so please AMD Marketing - be more professional and concise please.

 

My 2 cents from a long lost die-hard AMD fanboy.

[MeltyMoon]

I believe they called it free-sync is BECAUSE the software itself to implement it is going to be free. Unless I misunderstood the thread that was made on it a few days ago.

[Guest GRRigger]

Both amd and nvidia have their moments. Abou the fixer, i didnt even bother watching.

They are playing opportunist. Freesync name is one of those. To "laugh" at nvida g-sync price, or so.

[Scionyde]

I'll agree that I don't buy the "AMD is perfectly selfless, NVidia is completely selfish" message that gets thrown around, and that most of the little PR speeches we get are cringe-worthy. But all you can really do is accept that everybody's going to do it and try and take what you're given with a grain of salt.

[ltguy]

Wow, this 180 degrees out from ... oh say... MANTLE, which will cause a rift in the end user gaming experience between those using amd and nvidia gpus.

[Vitalius]

Wow, this 180 degrees out from ... oh say... MANTLE, which will cause a rift in the end user gaming experience between those using amd and nvidia gpus.

To be fair... Mantle is still free. *burrrrrn*

But seriously, I don't see how it will create a rift between the two. One will have better performance and features than the other (assuming Mantle is all they say it is), but that's it. How is that going to create a rift?

[exyia]

Wow, this 180 degrees out from ... oh say... MANTLE, which will cause a rift in the end user gaming experience between those using amd and nvidia gpus.

 

I just realized this....lol

[exyia]

To be fair... Mantle is still free. *burrrrrn*

But seriously, I don't see how it will create a rift between the two. One will have better performance and features than the other (assuming Mantle is all they say it is), but that's it. How is that going to create a rift?

 

he's saying it completely goes against this whole soapbox speech about being the "prophets" of moving technology forward for "everyone"

[Vitalius]

he's saying it completely goes against this whole soapbox speech about being the "prophets" of moving technology forward for "everyone"

Let's be honest. Breaking away from DirectX and Microsoft is moving forward for everyone. Even if it doesn't directly help Nvidia GPU users, being able to move from Windows to Linux (where I imagine Mantle will be prevalent) would be great. 

Mantle can apparently talk to DirectX. This would theoretically mean that an Nvidia GPU could play a game purely made in Mantle because the GPU would use DirectX features that Mantle would understand. It just wouldn't get a performance increase over the same game being made in DirectX like an AMD GPU would.

That's based on what AMD and the developers who are using Mantle have said about it. I could be wrong in my understanding of it working like that, but if it makes the transition from Windows to Linux easier for everyone (and it theoretically does), then it is moving everyone forward. 

Just saying. I could be wrong or Mantle might not be everything they say it is, but I'm hoping it is.

[exyia]

Let's be honest. Breaking away from DirectX and Microsoft is moving forward for everyone. Even if it doesn't directly help Nvidia GPU users, being able to move from Windows to Linux (where I imagine Mantle will be prevalent) would be great. 

Mantle can apparently talk to DirectX. This would theoretically mean that an Nvidia GPU could play a game purely made in Mantle because the GPU would use DirectX features that Mantle would understand. It just wouldn't get a performance increase over the same game being made in DirectX like an AMD GPU would.

That's based on what AMD and the developers who are using Mantle have said about it. I could be wrong in my understanding of it working like that, but if it makes the transition from Windows to Linux easier for everyone (and it theoretically does), then it is moving everyone forward. 

Just saying. I could be wrong or Mantle might not be everything they say it is, but I'm hoping it is.

 

right, I agree 100%

 

but it's still all speculation. we haven't even seen it released yet, let alone any indication of market adoption - yet marketing loves to keep spouting....franky what I almost want to call bull----

 

so.....we'll see

[Warcony]

Let's be honest. Breaking away from DirectX and Microsoft is moving forward for everyone. Even if it doesn't directly help Nvidia GPU users, being able to move from Windows to Linux (where I imagine Mantle will be prevalent) would be great. 

Mantle can apparently talk to DirectX. This would theoretically mean that an Nvidia GPU could play a game purely made in Mantle because the GPU would use DirectX features that Mantle would understand. It just wouldn't get a performance increase over the same game being made in DirectX like an AMD GPU would.

That's based on what AMD and the developers who are using Mantle have said about it. I could be wrong in my understanding of it working like that, but if it makes the transition from Windows to Linux easier for everyone (and it theoretically does), then it is moving everyone forward. 

Just saying. I could be wrong or Mantle might not be everything they say it is, but I'm hoping it is.

 

 

I have a feeling that Mantle won't live up to the hype AMD has created for it.  The whole situation seems similar to that of Blackberry 10, where Blackberry hyped it up for months and months and when it finally hit it didn't meet people's expectations.  AMD also claimed bulldozer was going to be amazing and we all know how that turned out...

 

All in all though, I  really hope Mantle does make a large positive impact so that it will be adopted by more developers, Nvidia and gets Microsoft off their asses.  If it flops though, be ready for many more years of DIRECTX, DIRECTX, DIRECTX, DIRECTX

[Vitalius]

I have a feeling that Mantle won't live up to the hype AMD has created for it.  The whole situation seems similar to that of Blackberry 10, where Blackberry hyped it up for months and months and when it finally hit it didn't meet people's expectations.  AMD also claimed bulldozer was going to be amazing and we all know how that turned out...

 

All in all though, I  really hope Mantle does make a large positive impact so that it will be adopted by more developers, Nvidia and gets Microsoft off their asses.  If it flops though, be ready for many more years of DIRECTX, DIRECTX, DIRECTX, DIRECTX

right, I agree 100%

 

but it's still all speculation. we haven't even seen it released yet, let alone any indication of market adoption - yet marketing loves to keep spouting....franky what I almost want to call bull----

 

so.....we'll see

Well, I would agree with it being over hyped if it weren't for the fact that developers are already getting behind it. 

There are a lot. Like, a lot. So there is obviously something to it that makes them want it. And developers directly translate to market share so... yeah. exyia

[Scionyde]

Well, I would agree with it being over hyped if it weren't for the fact that developers are already getting behind it. 

There are a lot. Like, a lot. So there is obviously something to it that makes them want it. And developers directly translate to market share so... yeah. exyia

 

Cloud Imperium Games, Rebellion, Eidos Montreal, Oxide, and BF4(has DICE confirmed whether all future games would have this?).

 

Which ones am I missing?

[beefalo]

I think you're grossly over analyzing a lot of these things. With regards to freesync they did say they were glad nvidia realized this as a potential gaming feature and showed it to illustrate it as a possibility for all GPUs and displays in the future with display port 1.3. Also I don't understand all of the people upset about the 290x and it being a "titan killer". All a card had to do to be a titan killer was perform better for less money which the 290x did. It may have only beat it by 5% or less but when it costs almost half the price how is that not killing the titan? I would call the titan "dead" if it performed the same and cost $100 less.

[afa7336]

Well, I would agree with it being over hyped if it weren't for the fact that developers are already getting behind it. 

There are a lot. Like, a lot. So there is obviously something to it that makes them want it. And developers directly translate to market share so... yeah. exyia

 

They may want it, but that doesn't equal that its going to be good. They could have been bought by the hype too, if not something else. Lets look at reality for a minute, we don't have a working product in Mantle yet. We've had fancy controlled tests of Mantle without outside testing. I could make something appear to look great on a computer but in reality suck balls. What we do know for a fact is that something stopped Mantle from being released in the BF4 patch. Consesus from people, without any facts I add, is that its bug fixing. But the only information we actually do have (unless there has been statements from devs), is that AMD not DICE, made the announcement. You'd think DICE would have made the announcement if it was on their end. I have a feeling there is a hitch with Mantle somewhere. (Speculation on my part). I hope I am wrong, I think Mantle is a good idea in theory and we'll see how it pans out in the long run.

[Pounds]

If marketing speak is making people mad, they could just wait until products have been released and then purchase those products based on favorable reviews in the desired price range... you know... let the quality of the products drive what you put your money in, rather than being led around by marketing noise.

[Skanic]

Every company takes shot at each others , just look at samsung and apple, or nokia.

 

Also i found the fixer to be funny and i have an nvidia gpu.

 

Mantle is good, because that way we don't have to rely on Microsoft for giving us better potential performance. And it also makes it easier for Linux developers or people that develop for it.

 

About moving forward they are kinda right the games that have had help from AMD are far more optimized than say, Assasin Creed 4 or Batman Origins.

 

AMD says the 290X is the titan killer when the Journalist call the 780 Ti the real Titan Killer. Who cares what they call each other. My guess its to stirr up the Fanboy's.

 

 

 

I really dislike the way Nvidia makes most of their stuff "Nvidia Only"  I can understand stuff like Shadowplay. But not stuff that actually makes the game different like PhysX and G-Sync.

 

I also like how amd do their gpu's AMD: Go crazy with the gpus guys" AIB: Ok.  and Nvidia has Green Light programm which limits how creative the AIB can go.

[Blue fellow]

I have a feeling that Mantle won't live up to the hype AMD has created for it.  The whole situation seems similar to that of Blackberry 10, where Blackberry hyped it up for months and months and when it finally hit it didn't meet people's expectations.  AMD also claimed bulldozer was going to be amazing and we all know how that turned out...

 

All in all though, I  really hope Mantle does make a large positive impact so that it will be adopted by more developers, Nvidia and gets Microsoft off their asses.  If it flops though, be ready for many more years of DIRECTX, DIRECTX, DIRECTX, DIRECTX

 

Mantle won't get us off of DirectX. And Nvidia will not use Mantle. Mantle is "open" so as long as you use GCN GPU's. Even the AMD 6xxx and 5xxx series do not work. Which according to Steam user statistics are more used than the current GCN GPUs. Only 31.35% of Steam users use AMD GPU's. With Steam representing the biggest PC gaming platform, their sampling size for gamers should be very acceptable. Even if all the 31.35% had GCN GPU's, that's still not enough.

 

 

I'm not a programmer, but I thought what made Mantle low level was that it was designed specifically for GCN in mind. What happens to Mantle 5 years from now? Can they keep adding architecture support to Mantle while keeping it low level? 

[Nineshadow]

The Titan has more RAM and DirectCompute.

[Vitalius]

Cloud Imperium Games, Rebellion, Eidos Montreal, Oxide, and BF4(has DICE confirmed whether all future games would have this?).

 

Which ones am I missing?

Yes, DICE said all games in current development with Frostbite 3 are being developed in Mantle.

The Creative Assembly (the Total War games, IIRC, they were talking about what 100,000 draw calls per frame would mean for them at AMD's developer conference, the one with the huge spaceship battle real-time simulation) are working with it now.

Crytek is considering it (and "so far it looks good"), so I'd expect them to be working with it as well. 

Hmm, I felt like there were more. Oh well. My bad. I was wrong. Still, those are some pretty big names.

 

Mantle won't get us off of DirectX. And Nvidia will not use Mantle. Mantle is "open" so as long as you use GCN GPU's. Even the AMD 6xxx and 5xxx series do not work. Which according to Steam user statistics are more used than the current GCN GPUs. Only 31.35% of Steam users use AMD GPU's. With Steam representing the biggest PC gaming platform, their sampling size for gamers should be very acceptable. Even if all the 31.35% had GCN GPU's, that's still not enough.

 

 

I'm not a programmer, but I thought what made Mantle low level was that it was designed specifically for GCN in mind. What happens to Mantle 5 years from now? Can they keep adding architecture support to Mantle while keeping it low level? 

http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/75866-mantle-not-restricted-to-gcn/

http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/76066-mantle-will-boost-performance-by-20-50-nvidia-can-add-support/

[TechFan@ic]

This doesn't qualify as a news item as it contains no news at all, only opinionated comments.

[TERAFLOP]

"The Fixer" was grossly over-aggressive.

The Hawaii event was a little over the top for stuff we still haven't seen

Hosting an event down the streat from nvidia's Montreal event was childish imo

Marketing the 290x as the "Titan Killer" did nothing but backfire. The 290x is a great card on it's own merit, boasting it as a "Titan killer" has done nothing but invite criticism

#1 The Fixer was a funny commercial, nothing more, AMD has been known to make funny commercials from time to time.

#2 The Hawaii event is just part of AMD's yearly GPU conferences and is meant for developers and commercial networking.

#3 Nvidia did the exact same thing, how hypocritical.

http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/33560-nvidia-holds-ces-press-event-at-amd-kaveri-hotel

AMD NEVER marketed the 290X as a Titan killer, it never even compared it to the Titan not even during their event in Monetreal where they compared it to a 780.

However the reviews have all come out to prove that the 290X did indeed beat the Titan and at half the price point hence the Titan killer.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-r9-290x-hawaii-review,3650-35.html

Your entire post is utterly biased and conformist.

[Vitalius]

This doesn't qualify as a news item as it contains no news at all, only opinionated comments.

I would agree if it didn't contain a news item. 

I didn't know about the "Doing the work for everyone" blog post from AMD. You can take that as "the news" part of this thread, imo.

[Dragonzeanse]

This is one of the reasons I've begun to think twice about purchasing from AMD. They ride the hype train far more than any other company I've seen accused of it - both Nvidia and Intel. Disagree if you will.

[Kuzma]

Wow, this 180 degrees out from ... oh say... MANTLE, which will cause a rift in the end user gaming experience between those using amd and nvidia gpus.

Mantle won't get us off of DirectX. And Nvidia will not use Mantle. Mantle is "open" so as long as you use GCN GPU's. Even the AMD 6xxx and 5xxx series do not work. Which according to Steam user statistics are more used than the current GCN GPUs. Only 31.35% of Steam users use AMD GPU's. With Steam representing the biggest PC gaming platform, their sampling size for gamers should be very acceptable. Even if all the 31.35% had GCN GPU's, that's still not enough.

 

 

I'm not a programmer, but I thought what made Mantle low level was that it was designed specifically for GCN in mind. What happens to Mantle 5 years from now? Can they keep adding architecture support to Mantle while keeping it low level? 

AMD has clearly stated that Nvidia and Intel can contact them if they want to have support for their architectures in Mantle. It's just a matter of will Nvidia swallow their pride?