More marketing speech - AMD: "Doing the work for everyone"

[MetroP]

I don't really know what's the "news" in here, it's just a rant about an AMD blogpost.
I don't see this turning into anything other than a religious debate because there are NO facts to debate.

If you don't like AMD that's fine, they're not shoving 290Xs down your throat, if you want to talk about bad marketing do I need to bring up Intel's Haswell cherry picking cock-up or their quasi-illegal crap in India, or perhaps the two fabs they built in disputed Palestinian territories ?

What about when Tom Petersen from Nvidia said that they're losing the frame rate race, that was a clossal cock-up, surprised he hasn't lost his job to be honest or what about the dark libraries anti-consumer bullcrap that Nvidia pulled with GameWorks and all of their almost EOL proprietary CUDA & PhysX ?, and the failing laptop GPU lawsuit in Canada do I even need to bring up the OriginPC and Tier 0 scandal ?

[exyia]

I don't really know what's the "news" in here, it's just a rant about an AMD blogpost.

I don't see this turning into anything other than a religious debate because there are NO facts to debate.

 

public statements are considered news (there are tons of them posted in the news section all the time)

 

and per rules, you should leave an opinion. usually it's nothing more than a sentence. posting just a link to the source isn't enough

 

but I put a little more effort to make my point on my opinion, rather than just one blanket statement/sentence to troll fanboys, so......that's not appropriate?

 

that's my reasoning of the post - if you're going to make an opinion/statement/argument, make a concise one

[MetroP]

public statements are considered news (there are tons of them posted in the news section all the time)

 

and per rules, you should leave an opinion. usually it's nothing more than a sentence. posting just a link to the source isn't enough

 

but I put a little more effort to make my point on my opinion, rather than just one blanket statement/sentence to troll fanboys, so......that's not appropriate?

 

that's my reasoning of the post - if you're going to make an opinion/statement/argument, make a concise one

I don't really see this as a "news" post, there is nothing to learn here that hasn't been posted already in the news section (about freesync and so on).

This is more of a discussion topic about how you feel about AMD's marketing, perhaps better suited in the general section or GPU section.

[exyia]

Yes, DICE said all games in current development with Frostbite 3 are being developed in Mantle.

The Creative Assembly (the Total War games, IIRC, they were talking about what 100,000 draw calls per frame would mean for them at AMD's developer conference, the one with the huge spaceship battle real-time simulation) are working with it now.

Crytek is considering it (and "so far it looks good"), so I'd expect them to be working with it as well. 

Hmm, I felt like there were more. Oh well. My bad. I was wrong. Still, those are some pretty big names.

 

http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/75866-mantle-not-restricted-to-gcn/

http://linustechtips.com/main/topic/76066-mantle-will-boost-performance-by-20-50-nvidia-can-add-support/

 

I already said I agree with your points, but for the sake of debate...

 

"Adopting" is such a loose term. None of those developers are going to completely drop DirectX for Mantle. They will merely make a version to run on the Mantle API.

 

Other statements (too lazy to source, we all read them) said that transferring TO API doesn't take that much time. So if it doesn't take too much time (for developers of those sizes, indies need not apply obviously), and even if they were compensated some by AMD (we don't know, could have money trading hands, could not - not judging either way), then saying "we're supporting Mantle" is a pretty soft-handed statement.

 

If Mantle is truly "adopted" - then to me that means every new game is coded purely on Mantle and nothing else. And we all know that's such a long shot

[CarlosRex]

Ok... so AMD is saying they don't like propriety technologies because they don't see any proper industry-wide adoption.

I don't see whats wrong with that ? CUDA has been eclipsed by OpenCL in recent years , PhysX never saw proper adoption even now, G-SYNC is DOA it seems as DP1.3 offers the same functionality and is a standard, doesn't require any proprietary licensee tech, doesn't require a proprietary Nvidia chip to function and most importantly isn't hardware locked to Nvidia's ecosystem so it will see proper adoption.

[Kuzma]

public statements are considered news (there are tons of them posted in the news section all the time)

 

and per rules, you should leave an opinion. usually it's nothing more than a sentence. posting just a link to the source isn't enough

 

but I put a little more effort to make my point on my opinion, rather than just one blanket statement/sentence to troll fanboys, so......that's not appropriate?

 

that's my reasoning of the post - if you're going to make an opinion/statement/argument, make a concise one

 

 

I don't really know what's the "news" in here, it's just a rant about an AMD blogpost.

I don't see this turning into anything other than a religious debate because there are NO facts to debate.

If you don't like AMD that's fine, they're not shoving 290Xs down your throat, if you want to talk about bad marketing do I need to bring up Intel's Haswell cherry picking cock-up or their quasi-illegal crap in India, or perhaps the two fabs they built in disputed Palestinian territories ?

What about when Tom Petersen from Nvidia said that they're losing the frame rate race, that was a clossal cock-up, surprised he hasn't lost his job to be honest or what about the dark libraries anti-consumer bullcrap that Nvidia pulled with GameWorks and all of their almost EOL proprietary CUDA & PhysX ?, and the failing laptop GPU lawsuit in Canada do I even need to bring up the OriginPC and Tier 0 scandal ?

 Love how you only addressed part of his post because you know that it's true....

[TERAFLOP]

I already said I agree with your points, but for the sake of debate...

 

"Adopting" is such a loose term. None of those developers are going to completely drop DirectX for Mantle. They will merely make a version to run on the Mantle API.

 

Other statements (too lazy to source, we all read them) said that transferring TO API doesn't take that much time. So if it doesn't take too much time (for developers of those sizes, indies need not apply obviously), and even if they were compensated some by AMD (we don't know, could have money trading hands, could not - not judging either way), then saying "we're supporting Mantle" is a pretty soft-handed statement.

 

If Mantle is truly "adopted" - then to me that means every new game is coded purely on Mantle and nothing else. And we all know that's such a long shot

Well if Nvidia can cut the crap and accept AMD's offer to support Mantle we wouldn't need crap like DX or even OpenGL.

AMD even said that once Mantle is in decent shape they will likely hand it over to the open-platform Khronos group for further development to become an industry standard.

likely by then Khronos will just call it OpenGL 5.0 or something of the sorts.

[MetroP]

 Love how you only addressed part of his post because you know that it's true....

To be fair to the guy, I edited my post after he replied, so not sure if he read the updated post.

[Kuzma]

To be fair to the guy, I edited my post after he replied, so not sure if he read the updated post.

ah that makes sense

[Vitalius]

I already said I agree with your points, but for the sake of debate...

 

"Adopting" is such a loose term. None of those developers are going to completely drop DirectX for Mantle. They will merely make a version to run on the Mantle API.

 

Other statements (too lazy to source, we all read them) said that transferring TO API doesn't take that much time. So if it doesn't take too much time (for developers of those sizes, indies need not apply obviously), and even if they were compensated some by AMD (we don't know, could have money trading hands, could not - not judging either way), then saying "we're supporting Mantle" is a pretty soft-handed statement.

 

If Mantle is truly "adopted" - then to me that means every new game is coded purely on Mantle and nothing else. And we all know that's such a long shot

Why would they do that? Mantle can talk to DirectX according to what I've see in both AMD & developer presentations and such. That means you could develop a game in Mantle and it would cover both DirectX and Mantle. Or if you developed in DirectX, it would cover both as well.

The difference is that DirectX doesn't take advantage of the low level hardware of AMD GPUs and isn't on Linux. That's basically the only two differences. The first one is sort of big, but basically making a low level API for Linux that could handle DirectX too would be amazing.

I suppose the only reason they would then have to consider DirectX is for consoles. 

[exyia]

To be fair to the guy, I edited my post after he replied, so not sure if he read the updated post.

 

this - I quoted his whole post at the time

 

and to be clear, when I said "if you're going to make an opinion/statement/argument, make a concise one" - I was speaking in general, not directly at you. As in - rather than leave a meaningless one-line sentence as my "opinion" of the news thread, I believe in making concise opinions/arguments. and I prefaced it by saying "News part is over"

 

anyway,

 

 

I don't really know what's the "news" in here, it's just a rant about an AMD blogpost.

I don't see this turning into anything other than a religious debate because there are NO facts to debate.

If you don't like AMD that's fine, they're not shoving 290Xs down your throat, if you want to talk about bad marketing do I need to bring up Intel's Haswell cherry picking cock-up or their quasi-illegal crap in India, or perhaps the two fabs they built in disputed Palestinian territories ?

What about when Tom Petersen from Nvidia said that they're losing the frame rate race, that was a clossal cock-up, surprised he hasn't lost his job to be honest or what about the dark libraries anti-consumer bullcrap that Nvidia pulled with GameWorks and all of their almost EOL proprietary CUDA & PhysX ?, and the failing laptop GPU lawsuit in Canada do I even need to bring up the OriginPC and Tier 0 scandal ?

 

those are all valid points - but my argument is that AMD's marketing just isn't on the same pace as their engineers. the AMD engineers say FreeSync was developed under completely different premises and reasoning (even one said they didn't see a demand for variable refresh rate until now), but the very naming of "FreeSync" just indicates (to me imo) that marketing took it and tried to stir up a sh--storm, and then claim they're the good guys and have been thinking of gamers the whole time

 

that is what bothers me, and just annoys me to no end for a company that has been a mess for years (which you can't deny, because their stock has done nothing but plummet for the past...what 10 years now?)

 

I want them to succeed - but when so many contradicting messages come out of different mouths of AMD, it just looks silly and reminds me why I sold my AMD stock years ago.

[Sky Daddy]

Wow, this 180 degrees out from ... oh say... MANTLE, which will cause a rift in the end user gaming experience between those using amd and nvidia gpus.

Mantle will still improve performance on nvidia machines over directx, just not as much as the gcn architecture.

 

Mantle is definitely the best api when it comes to cpu overhead.

[ltguy]

Mantle will still improve performance on nvidia machines over directx, just not as much as the gcn architecture.

 

Mantle is definitely the best api when it comes to cpu overhead.

See 3DFX Glide.

 

 

(I still have my voodoo banshee in a box)

[mr moose]

Each company takes its turn being the industry leader.  It's just that over the least few years it has been Nvidia and they just happened to be lucky enough to be on top when the 08 financial crisis occurred which kept them their longer than they probably would have been normally. 

 

Fact of the matter is that at the moment the issue with Nvidia is that they can afford to charge a premium for their wares because they have invested heavily into new solutions for vsync issues along side keeping their GPU's at the top of the game.  The issue with AMD is they have been playing catchup during a financial down turn which I believe explains why most of their solutions to performance issues are coming from software (mantle, free sync, anti stutter driver updates) as opposed to cost intensive R+D work on larger scale hardware improvements.