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spartaman64

Tesla returns yoinked self driving feature to second hand model S

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Posted · Original PosterOP
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Last week, a report from Jalopnik revealed that Tesla surreptitiously removed the Enhanced Autopilot (EAP) and Full Self-Driving (FSD) features from a Model S that was sold second-hand, through a third-party dealer.

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... Tesla then went on to sell this vehicle at auction on November 15, 2019. A third-party (non-Tesla) dealership called United Traders bought the car, which at the time was equipped with Autopilot and Full Self-Driving, some $8,000 worth of options. Options which no doubt pushed the bids at auction up higher than they would have been otherwise.

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... However, just a few days after the auction, on November 18, Tesla conducted an unsolicited, remote “audit” of the vehicle and removed the Enhanced Autopilot and Full Self-Driving options. United Traders wasn’t made aware of this, and continued to market the car as having those options.

At the time of the auction, Tesla made United Traders aware of maintenance work that needed to be done to the vehicle, according to disclosure statements seen by Jalopnik. The documents didn’t mention anything about Autopilot or FSD.

According to a statement from United Traders, after driving the car, it was aware that the features had been removed but had already agreed to sell the car to Alec. Both Alec and the dealership assumed it to be a bug, one that would require a simple fix to reinstate the features.

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In early January 2020, Alec took the car to a Tesla service center to get the previously mentioned maintenance work done. It was here that he was presented with an invoice detailing the work and the fact that Enhanced Autopilot and FSD was removed as part of a software update back on December 18, 2019. The reason: “It was found that the customer did not purchase the software.”

Only United Traders did, as did Alec; the car was bought under the premise it had the specification it was presented with at auction. 

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Though Tesla, being the good guy it is (sense the sarcasm), did offer to sell the feature back to Alec.

On further questioning, Tesla customer support said that it’s been identifying a number of customers that have Autopilot having not actually paid for it. 

It seems because Alec didn’t have an invoice record of specifically paying for EAP and FSD himself, Tesla decided he shouldn’t have it. So they removed it. But Alec didn’t actually own the vehicle at the time the audit was conducted, so this reasoning doesn’t entirely check out.

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TNW spoke with a number of new and used Tesla sales departments in the UK who all confirmed that if a second-hand Tesla is specified with additional options like Autopilot and FSD, that is what the customer will receive. 

One Tesla center in Northern England said the company would only ever remove a feature in the interest of customer safety, or if the car had been modified by the previous owner and was no longer running stock software. 

The representative also told TNW the only thing that doesn’t transfer with a change in ownership is pre-paid access to Tesla’s Supercharging network; that stays with the original owner, not the vehicle.

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It was largely the same case in the US. While US Tesla centers are far more tight-lipped than their UK counterparts when asked the same questions, they largely seemed perplexed that a second-hand Tesla would have a feature removed that it was originally sold with.

source: https://thenextweb.com/cars/2020/02/13/tesla-autopilot-surreptitiously-taken-now-given-back-alec-model-s/

 

I'm glad that this doesn't seem to be common practice but that brings to the question why it happened in this case. And was tesla advertising it with self driving at auction because thats just false advertising if they then remove it later. Maybe tesla just did it as a test to how people would respond and was planning to make it more of a thing if people responded well but hopefully they saw that people do not respond well to having features that they were promised removed and don't continue doing it.

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I love electric cars. I think that they are the only way forward and it frustrates me that they're still being adopted as slowly as they are.

I love how Tesla is pushing the market with electric cars in a way nobody else has, and I love the hardware they produce.

 

Regardless, for this reason as well as several others, I do not want a Tesla and probably never will. The software side of their business is a compendium of everything I hate about the software industry.


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I'm not buying a car that has DRM getting in the way of legit sale/transfer of the vehicle. Thats retarded.

If additional service is sold and tied to a user instead of the vehicle, then advertise the service as its own thing and not as part of the vehicle.


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1 hour ago, Dash Lambda said:

I love electric cars. I think that they are the only way forward and it frustrates me that they're still being adopted as slowly as they are.

I love how Tesla is pushing the market with electric cars in a way nobody else has, and I love the hardware they produce.

 

Regardless, for this reason as well as several others, I do not want a Tesla and probably never will. The software side of their business is a compendium of everything I hate about the software industry.

Yeah, ya know? 
 

I would love to own an electric car, but i can’t buy one cause they’re so damn expensive, and I’m sure you can’t either.

 

(edit) I ain’t driving no shitty Nissan Leaf or Chevy bolt or whatever there called, I am not a soccer mom 😂


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If I had to choose an electric car I'd pick the Ford Mustang mach-E, it doesn't really resemble a traditional Mustang, but it likely has better build quality than a Tesla,and it could get serviced at any Ford dealer, unlike Telsa that treats their vehicles like Apple which requires you to find an "approved" repair shop.

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1 hour ago, Dash Lambda said:

I love electric cars. I think that they are the only way forward and it frustrates me that they're still being adopted as slowly as they are.

We are nowhere close to electric cars being the norm.

 

Tesla on its own wouldnt ever be able to accomplish that.

 

Once all the other major car companies get behind it itll grow more. But even then itll be a long time.

 

Price will always be an issue. But also the infrastructure.

 

Theres still more areas that dont have a charging stations and then when it comes to repairs you would be lucky to have a tesla mechanic in your state. Some people are traveling 2-3 states for one.

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16 minutes ago, scuff gang said:

Yeah, ya know? 
 

I would love to own an electric car, but i can’t buy one cause they’re so damn expensive, and I’m sure you can’t either.

 

(edit) I ain’t driving no shitty Nissan Leaf or Chevy bolt or whatever there called, I am not a soccer mom 😂

To be fair. The low end Teslas start at 30kish. Which isnt a lot of money for a new car.

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6 minutes ago, RonnieOP said:

To be fair. The low end Teslas start at 30kish. Which isnt a lot of money for a new car.

Yeah but I can’t afford a new car in the first place 😂


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Just now, scuff gang said:

Yeah but I can’t afford a new car in the first place 😂

You will eventually though.

 

Although i personally wouldnt. Not to flex or anything but i could afford most new cars out there (not talking these quarter million dollar cars and what not) esp with financing. But when it comes to buying a car i go on craigslist and find an old used car for dirt cheap and drive it until it falls apart lol.

 

Im not a car guy though. As long as it gets me from point a to point b im happy. All but 2 of the cars ive ever bought have even had AC lol

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12 minutes ago, RonnieOP said:

To be fair. The low end Teslas start at 30kish. Which isnt a lot of money for a new car.

For that kind of money I get a petrol hatchback with all the gas, service and insurance included for 10 years of its lifetime. Basically 15k € for a car and 15k € for everything associated with its regular expenses. Electric cars are insanely expensive for what they offer. I can't do eco bullshit if I don't shit cash.

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8 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

For that kind of money I get a petrol hatchback with all the gas, service and insurance included for 10 years of its lifetime. Basically 15k € for a car and 15k € for everything associated with its regular expenses. Electric cars are insanely expensive for what they offer. I can't do eco bullshit if I don't shit cash.

Im not saying they are the cheapest. But they are not horribly expensive.

 

There are plenty of gas cars that are 10-20k more.

 

30k for an electric car eith all those bells and whistles isnt really a bad deal at all. 

 

 

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40 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

If I had to choose an electric car I'd pick the Ford Mustang mach-E, it doesn't really resemble a traditional Mustang, but it likely has better build quality than a Tesla,and it could get serviced at any Ford dealer, unlike Telsa that treats their vehicles like Apple which requires you to find an "approved" repair shop.

The tesla model Y is objectively the better vehicle. I don't doubt the interior will be nice but you sacrifice non trivial amounts of charge speed, battery capacity, performance and storage when going with the mach-e. In fact if you want even close to a fair comparison you are looking at the mach-e gt compared to the awd long range. Even then the gt costs about 15 thousand more for worse specs all the way around.

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Yep so this is one hugely bothersome issue with OTA updates and ownership as a service (esp as it relates to right to repair and transfering liscencing). 

 

I say this as a big tesla fan who will never buy a non-electric car again in my life (my most recent purchase was a CPO hybrid, but only because those things are ludicrously cost, efficient compared to good new BEVs at the moment).


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3 hours ago, scuff gang said:

(edit) I ain’t driving no shitty Nissan Leaf or Chevy bolt or whatever there called, I am not a soccer mom 😂

Personally I wouldn't get a Leaf - but the Bolt is an excellent compact SUV EV.

 

You also have the Kona EV and the Niro EV, both pretty awesome choices.

 

FYI a soccer mom would likely never buy a Leaf. Soccer moms like massive SUV's like Highlanders and Expeditions and shit.

 


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5 hours ago, RonnieOP said:

We are nowhere close to electric cars being the norm.

Lol, when it does I will still be driving my V8 powered real truck based SUV that gets 12mpg.

 

When I talked about the stupid stuff going on in the auto industry, people who don't even know how to work on cars or know how cars work will tell that me I'm just being silly.


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7 hours ago, Dash Lambda said:

I love electric cars. I think that they are the only way forward and it frustrates me that they're still being adopted as slowly as they are.

I love how Tesla is pushing the market with electric cars in a way nobody else has, and I love the hardware they produce.

 

Regardless, for this reason as well as several others, I do not want a Tesla and probably never will. The software side of their business is a compendium of everything I hate about the software industry.

Their stance on the hardware side of things isnt great either

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7 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

If I had to choose an electric car I'd pick the Ford Mustang mach-E, it doesn't really resemble a traditional Mustang, but it likely has better build quality than a Tesla,and it could get serviced at any Ford dealer, unlike Telsa that treats their vehicles like Apple which requires you to find an "approved" repair shop.

For now. We as consumers keep allowing companies to push that “only we can fix it” service model and soon every vehicle will be like Apple. 

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4 hours ago, dalekphalm said:

Personally I wouldn't get a Leaf - but the Bolt is an excellent compact SUV EV.

 

You also have the Kona EV and the Niro EV, both pretty awesome choices.

 

FYI a soccer mom would likely never buy a Leaf. Soccer moms like massive SUV's like Highlanders and Expeditions and shit.

 

If only the Kona and Niro were available nationwide... that would be a dream (well not for me, but I have numerous friends who straightup tried to have one shipped and dealers wouldnt do it)


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7 hours ago, RejZoR said:

For that kind of money I get a petrol hatchback with all the gas, service and insurance included for 10 years of its lifetime. Basically 15k € for a car and 15k € for everything associated with its regular expenses. Electric cars are insanely expensive for what they offer. I can't do eco bullshit if I don't shit cash.

It's also worth noting that at least in theory, electric cars should require much less maintenance over the life of the car. Granted Tesla QC has been pretty lackluster and we've still got a lot of early teething problems, but a machine that doesn't contain numerous fluids, belts and hundreds of thousands of small explosions is generally going to wear down a lot slower than one that does.

 

If you're buying new it's not going to matter much either way, but both the cost of repairs and the potential time lost from a car breaking down will level the price difference out even more over time. Maybe not enough to be 100% equal, but a lot of people seem to think that upfront cost and gas are the only money that ever needs to be considered for the average car. 

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I really, really want to buy a fully electric vehicle especially seeing that Tesla has a large network in my neck of the woods. The idea that I don't own both the software and the hardware that I've paid for is another roadblock to me just going for a Bolt, Prius, or [Fusion]. This is ridiculous and I'm getting really incensed that more and more companies are pushing the envelope on right to repair and ownership. 


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tesla be like:

https://livestreamfails.com/post/18827

(it's at 0:10)


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4 hours ago, Waffles13 said:

It's also worth noting that at least in theory, electric cars should require much less maintenance over the life of the car. Granted Tesla QC has been pretty lackluster and we've still got a lot of early teething problems, but a machine that doesn't contain numerous fluids, belts and hundreds of thousands of small explosions is generally going to wear down a lot slower than one that does.

 

If you're buying new it's not going to matter much either way, but both the cost of repairs and the potential time lost from a car breaking down will level the price difference out even more over time. Maybe not enough to be 100% equal, but a lot of people seem to think that upfront cost and gas are the only money that ever needs to be considered for the average car. 

That's the point I'm trying to make. It doesn't matter if they require less maintenance or "refueling" them is cheaper. For the price of just an electric car alone I can get a 15k € hatchback (which are not really crap and they move you around in good comfort) with EVERYTHING included for the other 15k €. It doesn't matter if it requires maintenance, it's already calculated in. And insurance. And ALL the fuel (for my needs anyways) for next 10 years of car use. Electric cars with current prices are for people who can just drop 30-35k on a car and not even give a shit. Most people I know don't have that kind of monetary options. Not even really well situated ones who drive cars that cost this much. They still think about things and not just buy one coz they can.

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