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WariorWolf

German Union suing YouTube for billions over unfair conditions for Creators

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Posted · Original PosterOP

First of all, english isn´t my first language, so please don´t roast me for spelling mistakes, etc. Thank you.

 

Joerg Sprave, who founded The Youtubers Union last year, and IG Metall, the largest workers union on the planet, have joint forces to fight for better treatment from Youtube for it´s partners. Their line of reasoning is that, since Youtube not only examines the work of other creators, but also controlls payment and promotion and even punishment, the self-employment of the crators is a false self-employment. This would mean, that Youtube had to pay social insurance to their creators, among other things. Second, Youtube´s secrecy about their algorithms and the way your videos are handled via the system may be a violation against the data potection law, which could result in a fine of several billion dollars (4% of their last years worldwide revinue). With the threat of these possible lawsuits they want to preassure youtube into reforming the treatment of creators.

 

Sources:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZZ5Kouj_hQ

 

https://www.fairtube.info/en/

 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/youtuberunion/

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one of the problems is that theres no interviewing process anyone can start uploading videos. so we cant just consider every content creator an employee. i just imagine the tax discussion :D "you didnt mention that you had 2nd job!" "but i uploaded one video 6 years ago" 


"I know its stupidly overdone and unreasonably unneccesary but wouldnt it be awesome if ..."

 

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Yeah these guys are on something else if they think YouTube is an employer to all the people that upload content to their website. If they are employees then would have to be held much more accountable and that would likely backfire on them. YouTube is a platform to upload user created content not some massive employer of everyone who makes a living off the platform. 

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1 hour ago, cluelessgenius said:

we cant just consider every content creator an employee.

I don't think this is the part of the argument we should be looking at, as being employed by YouTube could easily be defined as "Monetised creators who meet an annual income equivalent to a full time, minimum wage job."


hating popular things as a personality trait is infinitely more cringe than liking things unapologetically

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I am growing more sympathetic to their arguments every week. People start making videos on YouTube, they have a contract with YouTube, Terms of Service, they abide by it, they grow their channel, they invest in it, they make money off it, it becomes their career, it makes YouTube a ton of money as well. Then one day some bluecheckmark on Twitter whines and suddenly their channel which provided their income, which put a roof over their head and food in their child's mouth, which took years to build is stripped away, without warning, with no recourse, no way to gain it back, no alternative in the marketplace due to YouTube's monopoly.

 

YouTube sets itself up as being a place where you invest time and follow the rules you can have it be your career. They advertise it as such. The courts needs to provide a solution to dealing with YouTube as a creator who invested their time into YouTube only to be destroyed by YouTube with no recourse. YouTube is providing people full time employment, they advertise the platform as a way to make money, they are the ones selling that ad space and paying the creators, they should be held accountable.

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12 minutes ago, Chett_Manly said:

 

I have never once seen Google push YouTube as a place to make money. It’s always been pushed as a creators space and money is secondary or just happens.


ƆԀ S₱▓Ɇ▓cs: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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̌̅̒̾̈́̆͌̌̾̎̽̐̅̏́̈̔͛̀̋̃͊̒̓͗͒̑͒̃͂̌̄̇̑̇͛̆̾͛̒̇̍̒̓̀̈́̄̐͂̍͊͗̎̔͌͛̂̏̉̊̎͗͊͒̂̈̽̊́̔̊̃͑̈́̑̌̋̓̅̔́́͒̄̈́̈̂͐̈̅̈̓͌̓͊́̆͌̉͐̊̉͛̓̏̓̅̈́͂̉̒̇̉̆̀̍̄̇͆͛̏̉̑̃̓͂́͋̃̆̒͋̓͊̄́̓̕̕̕̚͘͘͘̚̕̚͘̕̕͜͜͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͠ͅS̷̢̨̧̢̡̨̢̨̢̨̧̧̨̧͚̱̪͇̱̮̪̮̦̝͖̜͙̘̪̘̟̱͇͎̻̪͚̩͍̠̹̮͚̦̝̤͖̙͔͚̙̺̩̥̻͈̺̦͕͈̹̳̖͓̜͚̜̭͉͇͖̟͔͕̹̯̬͍̱̫̮͓̙͇̗̙̼͚̪͇̦̗̜̼̠͈̩̠͉͉̘̱̯̪̟͕̘͖̝͇̼͕̳̻̜͖̜͇̣̠̹̬̗̝͓̖͚̺̫͛̉̅̐̕͘͜͜͜͜ͅͅͅ.̶̨̢̢̨̢̨̢̛̻͙̜̼̮̝̙̣̘̗̪̜̬̳̫̙̮̣̹̥̲̥͇͈̮̟͉̰̮̪̲̗̳̰̫̙͍̦̘̠̗̥̮̹̤̼̼̩͕͉͕͇͙̯̫̩̦̟̦̹͈͔̱̝͈̤͓̻̟̮̱͖̟̹̝͉̰͊̓̏̇͂̅̀̌͑̿͆̿̿͗̽̌̈́̉̂̀̒̊̿͆̃̄͑͆̃̇͒̀͐̍̅̃̍̈́̃̕͘͜͜͝͠͠z̴̢̢̡̧̢̢̧̢̨̡̨̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̛̲͚̠̜̮̠̜̞̤̺͈̘͍̻̫͖̣̥̗̙̳͓͙̫̫͖͍͇̬̲̳̭̘̮̤̬̖̼͎̬̯̼̮͔̭̠͎͓̼̖̟͈͓̦̩̦̳̙̮̗̮̩͙͓̮̰̜͎̺̞̝̪͎̯̜͈͇̪̙͎̩͖̭̟͎̲̩͔͓͈͌́̿͐̍̓͗͑̒̈́̎͂̋͂̀͂̑͂͊͆̍͛̄̃͌͗̌́̈̊́́̅͗̉͛͌͋̂̋̇̅̔̇͊͑͆̐̇͊͋̄̈́͆̍̋̏͑̓̈́̏̀͒̂̔̄̅̇̌̀̈́̿̽̋͐̾̆͆͆̈̌̿̈́̎͌̊̓̒͐̾̇̈́̍͛̅͌̽́̏͆̉́̉̓̅́͂͛̄̆͌̈́̇͐̒̿̾͌͊͗̀͑̃̊̓̈̈́̊͒̒̏̿́͑̄̑͋̀̽̀̔̀̎̄͑̌̔́̉̐͛̓̐̅́̒̎̈͆̀̍̾̀͂̄̈́̈́̈́̑̏̈́̐̽̐́̏̂̐̔̓̉̈́͂̕̚̕͘͘̚͘̚̕̚̚̚͘̕̕̕͜͜͝͠͠͝͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͠͝͝͝͝͝͝ͅͅͅī̸̧̧̧̡̨̨̢̨̛̛̘͓̼̰̰̮̗̰͚̙̥̣͍̦̺͈̣̻͇̱͔̰͈͓͖͈̻̲̫̪̲͈̜̲̬̖̻̰̦̰͙̤̘̝̦̟͈̭̱̮̠͍̖̲͉̫͔͖͔͈̻̖̝͎̖͕͔̣͈̤̗̱̀̅̃̈́͌̿̏͋̊̇̂̀̀̒̉̄̈́͋͌̽́̈́̓̑̈̀̍͗͜͜͠͠ͅp̴̢̢̧̨̡̡̨̢̨̢̢̢̨̡̛̛͕̩͕̟̫̝͈̖̟̣̲̖̭̙͇̟̗͖͎̹͇̘̰̗̝̹̤̺͉͎̙̝̟͙͚̦͚͖̜̫̰͖̼̤̥̤̹̖͉͚̺̥̮̮̫͖͍̼̰̭̤̲͔̩̯̣͖̻͇̞̳̬͉̣̖̥̣͓̤͔̪̙͎̰̬͚̣̭̞̬͎̼͉͓̮͙͕̗̦̞̥̮̘̻͎̭̼͚͎͈͇̥̗͖̫̮̤̦͙̭͎̝͖̣̰̱̩͎̩͎̘͇̟̠̱̬͈̗͍̦̘̱̰̤̱̘̫̫̮̥͕͉̥̜̯͖̖͍̮̼̲͓̤̮͈̤͓̭̝̟̲̲̳̟̠͉̙̻͕͙̞͔̖͈̱̞͓͔̬̮͎̙̭͎̩̟̖͚̆͐̅͆̿͐̄̓̀̇̂̊̃̂̄̊̀͐̍̌̅͌̆͊̆̓́̄́̃̆͗͊́̓̀͑͐̐̇͐̍́̓̈́̓̑̈̈́̽͂́̑͒͐͋̊͊̇̇̆̑̃̈́̎͛̎̓͊͛̐̾́̀͌̐̈́͛̃̂̈̿̽̇̋̍͒̍͗̈͘̚̚͘̚͘͘͜͜͜͜͜͜͠͠͝͝ͅͅͅ☻♥■∞{╚mYÄÜXτ╕○\╚Θº£¥ΘBM@Q05♠{{↨↨▬§¶‼↕◄►☼1♦  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21 minutes ago, poochyena said:

Wouldn't that affect every website? Ebay, amazon, etsy, etc?

No, because your payment is through selling a tangible product.

 

Youtube is making a platform that sells advertising onto those creators. They rarely, if ever, give any time to adjust to changes. Every time an adpocalypse has been started it was due to Youtube targeting the system rather than the offender. Youtubers are providing a service that Youtube pays for and then strips it away any chance they get without due process for creators. 

 

43 minutes ago, Suika said:

I don't think this is the part of the argument we should be looking at, as being employed by YouTube could easily be defined as "Monetised creators who meet an annual income equivalent to a full time, minimum wage job."

If it were like that, we would also have to look at those part-timers and "on-call" workers. 

 

1 hour ago, cluelessgenius said:

"you didnt mention that you had 2nd job!" "but i uploaded one video 6 years ago" 

Depending on your federal and state laws, you may not have to declare taxes on an amount below X and many Youtubers do have to file taxes for income from their monetization. 


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2 minutes ago, ARikozuM said:

If it were like that, we would also have to look at those part-timers and "on-call" workers.

That's not my point, the point is that it can easily be more clearly defined, rather than "yea I uploaded to YouTube once."


hating popular things as a personality trait is infinitely more cringe than liking things unapologetically

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3 hours ago, BuckGup said:

I have never once seen Google push YouTube as a place to make money. It’s always been pushed as a creators space and money is secondary or just happens.

When was the last time YouTube promoted a creator who had a day job outside YouTube?

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I don't know about the technicalities, but I like the angle they are coming from.

 

It has gotten to a stage now where youtube wants:

 

1. to be the publisher but not be liable for publishing content

2. to be the platform, but not be liable for platforming the creator

3. to make money off the creators but not be liable for any of the creators losses

4. to claim not wanting to censor anything but are censoring anything that costs them money.

 

If you can't provide a service that you can't properly manage, then don't provide the service.

 

 

 

 

 


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

Sometimes I miss contractions like n't on the end of words like wouldn't, couldn't and shouldn't.    Please don't be a dick,  make allowances when reading my posts.

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Hey, even forgotten weapons has jumped on it, and honestly I don't disagree with anything the creators or the union are pushing for.

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"https://www.fairtube.info/en/"

 

Everything they want is wildly implausible or a bad idea.  Tell you the algorithms for recommendations?  Oh yeah so everyone can then make videos just to game the system.    There's thousands of videos uploaded every minute, do they really think a human can possibly go through and deal with every trivial bullshit problem someone has?   Fine you guys win, you get your demands but owe $20 for every video you upload in order to properly support you.

 

These people annoy me in general.  If your conditions are so poor, fucking go elsewhere.  It's the same with Uber drivers they whine about how they're not paid enough blah blah...then why are you still doing it if it isn't good enough?


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35 minutes ago, mr moose said:

to claim not wanting to censor anything but are censoring anything that costs them money.

No. Anything they disagree with politically. Many independant journalists that lost monetization after the VoxAdpocalypse have been approached by companies for direct sponsorship. Which is funny as many of these companies also wanted to advertise through adsense initially.


Come Bloody Angel

Break off your chains

And look what I've found in the dirt.

 

Pale battered body

Seems she was struggling

Something is wrong with this world.

 

Fierce Bloody Angel

The blood is on your hands

Why did you come to this world?

 

Everybody turns to dust.

 

Everybody turns to dust.

 

The blood is on your hands.

 

The blood is on your hands!

 

Pyo.

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1 minute ago, Drak3 said:

No. Anything they disagree with politically.

Like most people in large corporations, Money talks, political or social narrative effects the flow of money thus it is money that dictates the lions share of censorship. 

 

 

 


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

Sometimes I miss contractions like n't on the end of words like wouldn't, couldn't and shouldn't.    Please don't be a dick,  make allowances when reading my posts.

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Just now, mr moose said:

Like most people in large corporations, Money talks,

Then Youtube wouldn't operate the way that it does. As it stands, they would rather take sides with a political fringe and claim advertiser friendliness than they would be nuetral and accept more advertisers.


Come Bloody Angel

Break off your chains

And look what I've found in the dirt.

 

Pale battered body

Seems she was struggling

Something is wrong with this world.

 

Fierce Bloody Angel

The blood is on your hands

Why did you come to this world?

 

Everybody turns to dust.

 

Everybody turns to dust.

 

The blood is on your hands.

 

The blood is on your hands!

 

Pyo.

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3 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Then Youtube wouldn't operate the way that it does. As it stands, they would rather take sides with a political fringe and claim advertiser friendliness than they would be nuetral and accept more advertisers.

They're taking the side of large corporations, not independents. You rarely see leftist independents in the recommended pages while you see an increased presence of FOX, BlazeTV, OAN, and MSNBC. 

 

This is a workers' union trying to create change within their own powers, and we're saying it's wrong? If you want smaller gov't, you should be glad it's a union of creators that is trying to make the case for themselves as a whole. 


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6 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Then Youtube wouldn't operate the way that it does. As it stands, they would rather take sides with a political fringe and claim advertiser friendliness than they would be nuetral and accept more advertisers.

Are they taking sides with a fringe though?  It seems most of what they do is widely popular or under the threat of legal action from other companies.

 


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

Sometimes I miss contractions like n't on the end of words like wouldn't, couldn't and shouldn't.    Please don't be a dick,  make allowances when reading my posts.

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Just now, mr moose said:

Are they taking sides with a fringe though? 

Yes. Prime example is when Google mass demonitized central and right political channels when Carlos Maza claimed that Steven Crowder was using hate speech to harass him (long story short, he wasn't and Google effectively admitted such).

 

1 minute ago, mr moose said:

It seems most of what they do is widely popular

It REALLY isn't. VoxAdpocalypse demonstrated that.


Come Bloody Angel

Break off your chains

And look what I've found in the dirt.

 

Pale battered body

Seems she was struggling

Something is wrong with this world.

 

Fierce Bloody Angel

The blood is on your hands

Why did you come to this world?

 

Everybody turns to dust.

 

Everybody turns to dust.

 

The blood is on your hands.

 

The blood is on your hands!

 

Pyo.

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1 minute ago, Drak3 said:

Yes. Prime example is when Google mass demonitized central and right political channels when Carlos Maza claimed that Steven Crowder was using hate speech to harass him (long story short, he wasn't and Google effectively admitted such).

Everyone, left and right, lost monetization after the adpocalypse. You'd have to be an idiot to think that any other outcome was possible.


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2 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Yes. Prime example is when Google mass demonitized central and right political channels when Carlos Maza claimed that Steven Crowder was using hate speech to harass him (long story short, he wasn't and Google effectively admitted such).

 

It REALLY isn't. VoxAdpocalypse demonstrated that.

 

And you don't think that the mass censoring and virtue signalling google do in those situations isn't driven by advertisers being worried about backlash on those videos?


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

Sometimes I miss contractions like n't on the end of words like wouldn't, couldn't and shouldn't.    Please don't be a dick,  make allowances when reading my posts.

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Just now, mr moose said:

 

And you don't think that the mass censoring and virtue signalling google do in those situations isn't driven by advertisers being worried about backlash on those videos?

No, because as I've already said, the channels losing monetization through Google are now being sponsored directly. Those sponsors are doing so because they couldn't get that (if any) reach through Google.


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Fierce Bloody Angel

The blood is on your hands

Why did you come to this world?

 

Everybody turns to dust.

 

Everybody turns to dust.

 

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6 hours ago, Chett_Manly said:

I am growing more sympathetic to their arguments every week. People start making videos on YouTube, they have a contract with YouTube, Terms of Service, they abide by it, they grow their channel, they invest in it, they make money off it, it becomes their career, it makes YouTube a ton of money as well. Then one day some bluecheckmark on Twitter whines and suddenly their channel which provided their income, which put a roof over their head and food in their child's mouth, which took years to build is stripped away, without warning, with no recourse, no way to gain it back, no alternative in the marketplace due to YouTube's monopoly.

 

YouTube sets itself up as being a place where you invest time and follow the rules you can have it be your career. They advertise it as such. The courts needs to provide a solution to dealing with YouTube as a creator who invested their time into YouTube only to be destroyed by YouTube with no recourse. YouTube is providing people full time employment, they advertise the platform as a way to make money, they are the ones selling that ad space and paying the creators, they should be held accountable.

youtube doesnt earn money youtube loses google money

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1 minute ago, Drak3 said:

No, because as I've already said, the channels losing monetization through Google are now being sponsored directly. Those sponsors are doing so because they couldn't get that (if any) reach through Google.

 

As soon as you introduce LBGQUTL (etc) into the equation you can bet your arse everyone is scrambling to protect their image.   Some advertisers went direct to crowder, some advertisers are clearly happy to be there.  Google on the other hand wants as much money from all their advertisers, which undoubted in this day and age includes a lot more that don't want to be associated with such content.   

 

Google does this on every level to ensure the money keeps coming in, its why they fuck with people like James Damore, because it earns them more street cred with the morons who don't understand responsible human interaction and want to make everyone adopt their personal emotional view points.   A fashion company will lose sales if they are seen as supporting gay hate speech, something the extreme left are good at promoting/highlighting true or not, hence any company concerned with their revenue will pull ads from anything that risks offending the delicate snowflakes.

 


QuicK and DirtY. Read the CoC it's like a guide on how not to be moron.  Also I don't have an issue with the VS series.

Sometimes I miss contractions like n't on the end of words like wouldn't, couldn't and shouldn't.    Please don't be a dick,  make allowances when reading my posts.

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