Qualcomm Alleges Apple took Source Code and passed it along to Intel

[ars3n1k]

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/25/qualcomm-accuses-apple-of-giving-its-chip-secrets-to-intel.html

 

From the article:

Quote

Qualcomm is alleging the source code and tools were stolen for the express purpose of helping Intel overcome engineering flaws in its chips that led to their poor performance in iPhones.

 

Quote

Qualcomm does not provide direct evidence to support the allegations but does make reference to back and forth between Apple and Intel engineers that was found during discovery. Sources say the evidence includes not just email correspondence, but Apple's source code development history and the code used in Intel-based phones.

 

This could be an interesting salvo in Qualcomm v. Apple that's going on. Wondering if Apple will settle, or if they'll continue to fight this.

 

[Trixanity]

Not surprised if they did. I'm fairly positive they reverse engineered Imagination's GPU tech in order to make their own.

[Master Disaster]

Whose source code? The article isn't totally clear and actually seems to imply its Apples own code, if so then and what? Obviously if it's QCs code then it's an issue.

[DrMacintosh]

No evidence, no case. 

 

If it is actually Qualcomms code then it’s a big problem, but if it’s just Qualcomm with hurt feelings then that isn’t going to stand up in court. 

[Blademaster91]

1 hour ago, Trixanity said:

Not surprised if they did. I'm fairly positive they reverse engineered Imagination's GPU tech in order to make their own.

Yeah, Apple also refused to pay qualcomm royalties to use their tech,  not surprising at all.

[Thaldor]

Well, it seems that you don't get to be a trillion dollar company with some serious dirt on your hands. Amazon mistreats their workers and Apple is accused for this and that they make probably the most overpriced bad charger cables and is generally just an asshat.

[ZestyJalapeno]

Honestly it might be more profitable for Apple to settle then receive under the table cash from Intel for giving them a leg up. They'll also indirectly profit from the increased competition for contracts between Intel and Qualcomm bringing down the cost of routers. E-z money 

[captain_to_fire]

A litigation without evidence = case dismissed 

[Commodus]

1 hour ago, Blademaster91 said:

Yeah, Apple also refused to pay qualcomm royalties to use their tech,  not surprising at all.

Apple refused to pay royalties at a certain point because it believed they were exorbitant, not because it refused to pay any royalties.  Qualcomm has faced numerous antitrust cases (and lost at least once) over its royalty practices.

 

The sad thing is, you could predict that there would be people on LTT who would unquestioningly accept Qualcomm's allegations because of the "screw Apple" mindset.

 

"Well, Apple and Intel talked at some point and the code got better, so clearly Apple was stealing code."  Er, no.  We need to see evidence that Apple explicitly said it was taking code, and that the Intel modem code could only have been lifted directly from Qualcomm.  Those won't come out until this reaches court, assuming Apple and Qualcomm don't reach a settlement.

[PlayStation 2]

Something about this seems… fishy. It’s probably the lack of anything coming out of Qualcomm that would even point to Apple actually did steal their source code. 

Apple ain’t the greatest but they’re hardly stupid, either, especially when it comes to other tech giants. 

[ScratchCat]

To those mentioning the lack of evidence: 

 

Qualcomm has a history of picking fights with Apple resulting in what has become a "you sued me so I'll sue you" game, however there are two obstacles in Qualcomms path to releasing evidence:

• They won't want to release their code and they sure as hell will not release any Apple/Intel code they are pointing out to not open themselves up to a counter lawsuit.
• Any email correspondence they obtained will probably be under Apple's strict NDA and releasing any emails would again provide Apple/Intel with a clean counter lawsuit.

 

This still seems off (they are not even asking the FTC to stop iPhone sales this time) and from the OP just seems to be paper threat.

[Guest]

Behind in the benchmarks ahead in the allegations. Qualcomm salty. 

[D13H4RD]

Keyword is "alleged" 

[mr moose]

Yes it's true, I heard they put the source code in a a condom and made an underpaid worker swallow it then they sent him as a parcel economy rate to Intel.

[Sniperfox47]

15 hours ago, Trixanity said:

Not surprised if they did. I'm fairly positive they reverse engineered Imagination's GPU tech in order to make their own.

I mean it's not even like they had to. They worked alongside Imagination on the development of the previous generation of GPUs, and have indefinite patent leases from imagination for all their tech. It's not so much reverse engineering as just taking the plans and implimenting them (with some improvements on top).

 

12 hours ago, Commodus said:

Apple refused to pay royalties at a certain point because it believed they were exorbitant, not because it refused to pay any royalties.  Qualcomm has faced numerous antitrust cases (and lost at least once) over its royalty practices.

There's a big difference between "you are charging us exorbitant royalties so we're going to report you for anticompetitive practices" and "we don't want to pay you this much so we're going to stop paying you in violation of your contract while continuing to use your tech anyways".

 

It's not like Qualcomm suddenly changed the prices for Apple. They prices were the same as they had always been, and were prices that Apple had agreed to and that both sides were contractually bound to.

 

If Apple decided that those prices weren't fair the responsible way to deal with it was to either report Qualcomm and continue with your agreement until such a time as it's found to be unfair by the courts, or to stop using Qualcomm's tech. You don't just keep using a companies IP after you decide on your own accord to stop paying them. That's breach of contract and copyright/patent infringement.

 

12 hours ago, Commodus said:

The sad thing is, you could predict that there would be people on LTT who would unquestioningly accept Qualcomm's allegations because of the "screw Apple" mindset.

 

"Well, Apple and Intel talked at some point and the code got better, so clearly Apple was stealing code."  Er, no.  We need to see evidence that Apple explicitly said it was taking code, and that the Intel modem code could only have been lifted directly from Qualcomm.  Those won't come out until this reaches court, assuming Apple and Qualcomm don't reach a settlement.

Nobody here has been unquestioningly accepting it... The most anyone has said is that they wouldn't be surprised.

 

I wouldn't be surprised either. Corporate espionage is a pretty common occurrence.

[Sauron]

14 hours ago, DrMacintosh said:

No evidence, no case. 

 

If it is actually Qualcomms code then it’s a big problem, but if it’s just Qualcomm with hurt feelings then that isn’t going to stand up in court. 

Well, it should be pretty easy to prove if it's true.

[Trixanity]

1 minute ago, Sniperfox47 said:

I mean it's not even like they had to. They worked alongside Imagination on the development of the previous generation of GPUs, and have indefinite patent leases from imagination for all their tech. It's not so much reverse engineering as just taking the plans and implimenting them (with some improvements on top).

Lease would imply payments. Apple claims they've stopped paying Imagination if I recall correctly.

Do you have a source on that?

[Blademaster91]

16 hours ago, Commodus said:

Apple refused to pay royalties at a certain point because it believed they were exorbitant, not because it refused to pay any royalties.  Qualcomm has faced numerous antitrust cases (and lost at least once) over its royalty practices.

 

The sad thing is, you could predict that there would be people on LTT who would unquestioningly accept Qualcomm's allegations because of the "screw Apple" mindset.

 

"Well, Apple and Intel talked at some point and the code got better, so clearly Apple was stealing code."  Er, no.  We need to see evidence that Apple explicitly said it was taking code, and that the Intel modem code could only have been lifted directly from Qualcomm.  Those won't come out until this reaches court, assuming Apple and Qualcomm don't reach a settlement.

More likely a price Apple just didn't want to pay, "exorbitant" is nonsense for a trillion dollar company. Then again you don't get to be a trillion dollar company by playing fair.

As mentioned refusing to pay for an IP yet continuing to use it is at least a breach of contract, simply settling and paying Qualcomm what literally everyone else does would be the best thing to do.   And no all I and everyone else said is it isn't surprising.

[DrMacintosh]

2 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

exorbitant" is nonsense for a trillion dollar company

No, it’s not. Just because you have more cash on hand than any other company doesn’t mean your investors and your board is just going to let you hemorrhage money that you don’t have to. 

 

Apple is a business and they are going to conduct business, not pay people for rip offs, however ironic you might think such an idea is. 

[Sniperfox47]

4 hours ago, Trixanity said:

Lease would imply payments. Apple claims they've stopped paying Imagination if I recall correctly.

Do you have a source on that?

Lease is a transfer of partial or complete ownership from one person to another for a period of time. It typically involves payments but doesn't neccesarily have to.

 

When Apple said they were going to be using their own GPUs instead of Imagination's, Imagination threatened a lawsuit, stating that they didn't believe Apple could do so without infringing their patents. The court case never actually started, and instead a formal dispute was filed, they settled outside court, and immediately after settling Immagination's went up for sale. That's as much as I can find a source for right now sorry. https://9to5mac.com/2017/06/22/imagination-technologies-sale-apple/

 

What I can't find the source for was the quote from Apple's Press Statement that said the issue didn't matter because they had a perpetual lease/grant of the only IP they needed.

 

At the end of the day, while Imagination's settlement doesn't mean that Apple for sure has a right to the IP they needed, it means we can't just assume that they're violating it. There's the very real possibility that the lisence was granted under false pretenses or was effectively blackmailed out of the much smaller company dependent on Apple, but the lack of any real court case and the close relationship between Apple and Imagination means it's a much safer assumption that they have the lisence rights than that they don't.

[D13H4RD]

3 hours ago, Blademaster91 said:

More likely a price Apple just didn't want to pay, "exorbitant" is nonsense for a trillion dollar company. Then again you don't get to be a trillion dollar company by playing fair.

Welcome to corporate life.

 

Most big corporate companies get to where they are without playing by the rules exactly. 

[doubleagent214]

22 hours ago, ars3n1k said:

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/25/qualcomm-accuses-apple-of-giving-its-chip-secrets-to-intel.html

 

From the article:

 

 

This could be an interesting salvo in Qualcomm v. Apple that's going on. Wondering if Apple will settle, or if they'll continue to fight this.

 

Doesnt apple make their own design and codes? If so, they took their ball and went home?

[TopHatProductions115]

While Apple's past track record does lend the company to some precursory scrutiny, there is no evidence presented (as far as I am aware) that the code used actually belongs to Qualcomm until the proof is presented, I cannot side with Qualcomm, and will assume that Apple is not guilty until otherwise indicated.

[mr moose]

6 hours ago, D13H4RD2L1V3 said:

Welcome to corporate life.

 

Most big corporate companies get to where they are without playing by the rules exactly. 

 

 

[FPSwithaWacomTablet]

12 hours ago, mr moose said:

Yes it's true, I heard they put the source code in a a condom and made an underpaid worker swallow it then they sent him as a parcel economy rate to Intel.

Works in the drug trade, don't see no problem with BIOS chips being sent this way.

 

/s