Linux performance crushes Windows on new 32-core AMD flagship

[Hyperwerk]

Obviously.  Its Linux! I.e not trash for actual work, unlike Wintendo.

[ltguy]

No comments because Linux doesn't really need additional strengths over windows 10. That battle is won. Linux doesnt install crapware randomly that i never asked for, doesnt serve me ads despite being paid software, and gives the user control over updates/privacy/and reboots. Windows 10 is a flaming turd that people only tolerate because the AAA games are still there (and it has adobe, which still has users despite being poorly optimized and un-innovative). It's days are numbered as long as this continues and they continue to piss off the enterprise by having buggy forced updates that break critical systems.

[Hyperwerk]

1 minute ago, valdyrgramr said:

/jk

plz no ban

 

Kek

[Hyperwerk]

2 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

 

 

Well, that's how you start a flame war if you're serious.  The above is just my feedback on why people won't switch even if I use both Linux and Windows 10 daily.

 

True, I also use both.  In some scenarios, Linux is just miles better. (Updates without reboots etc.)   Windows mostly have gains because its the de facto standard. And that Microsoft has implemented closed standards etc. Standards that are reverse engineered work well under Linux. SMB/CIFS  via Samba works great.

 I only "need" Windows for gaming.   Thus "Wintendo". 
 

[ltguy]

29 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

I honestly don't see Windows being limited by days at all.  Most people don't wanna type or copy pasta into a terminal to get everything to work properly, considering how easy it easy to force ransomware onto the main OS's website compared to MS's legit happened with Mint, far more driver support/stability issues, API issues for the most common API used, and more...I really don't see people switching to Linux at such a high rate.

 

 

Well, that's how you start a flame war if you're serious.  The above is just my feedback on why people won't switch even if I use both Linux and Windows 10 daily.

I can't be persuaded with your argument since you failed to refute any of the claims I made. I don't live in a world where copying and pasting is hard (thats easier than finagling with registries, dll's, and .net framework), i can't compare anything to linux's main os website because i dont know what main linux is? compared to microsoft's legit (legit what?). I cant even read that sentence "compared to MS's legit happened with Mint". Linux drivers are actually pretty stable now, You don't even mention by name what you feel is the most common API so I cant be swayed but that.

 

 

[Hyperwerk]

4 minutes ago, ltguy said:

 

 

Linux mint was hacked and their ISO's infected with malware and replaced.  Some might say that it still is a risk since they (at least previously) held back security updates for some packages.  Easy fix, but not best practice. 

[jagdtigger]

51 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

cracks knuckles   Better API support, better driver support, better HW support, and more of everything actually on Windows.  Your shitty emulation on Linux is a joke, and even Level1 techs proved there are still problems with gaming on Linux even after that copy/pasta fest he showed off.  finishes fighting words  

What kind of stability issues?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/99l7pzm1ye07b7a/Screenshot at 2018-08-15 20-49-49.png?dl=0

 

[Hyperwerk]

2 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

 

3.  Drivers are still a problem on Linux, and there's still HW support issues too.  For example, I bought a newer Netgear Wifi adapter and works fine on Windows.  There's no driver in existence for it on Linux.  Linus refuses to identify it.  This is a known issue with Linux.

 

4.  The most commonly used API is Direct X 11, and yes I watched that Linus/Level1 Tech video, and there are still problems with the way they did it.  I am pretty sure it's common knowledge that Direct X 11 is the most common.

3

3. There are no drivers. Yet.
4. Microsoft obviously won't assist their competitors in this regard, but there are workarounds if you really want to play. 

 

[jagdtigger]

Just now, valdyrgramr said:

SW/driver.

So far my my linux machines are far more stable than any wondows machine, especially with my habit of putting them to sleep instead of shutting them down. (what i linked in my previous post is the status page of my home server, it runs 27/7/365, the last downtime is when the A/C got installed in my room)

[jagdtigger]

2 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

but there is HW that I mentioned that either has no drivers or buggy 3rd party ones.

Which is the fault of the manufacturer for handing out badly written stuff/ straight up refusing to cooperate...

 

3 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

As for SW forcing SW not meant to run on Linux usually comes with issues.

It could be done if MS wanted to do it, but they do not want that since that is the last thing that keeps windows alive...

[ltguy]

3 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

1. Just because you don't mind using the terminal to copy pasta things in doesn't mean other prefer that too, that's you.

2.  When was MS's Win10 installer on their official website compromised with ransomware?  Linux Mint's website was hacked easily, and the installer was loaded with ransomware.  Not saying Windows 10 can't get Ransomware, but that's done through 3rd party websites, not MS.

 

3.  Drivers are still a problem on Linux, and there's still HW support issues too.  For example, I bought a newer Netgear Wifi adapter and works fine on Windows.  There's no driver in existence for it on Linux.  Linus refuses to identify it.  This is a known issue with Linux.

 

4.  The most commonly used API is Direct X 11, and yes I watched that Linus/Level1 Tech video, and there are still problems with the way they did it.  I am pretty sure it's common knowledge that Direct X 11 is the most common.

Thanks for the clarification!

 

1. I think for people who dont want to mess with a terminal, for those people, their uses cases would easily be served without the need to enter the terminal.

 

2. Linux Mint isn't comparable to Microsoft. Maybe Red Hat or Canonical would be a better comparison. I think far more windows users are infected with ransomware than linux. That may be a more important topic to discuss since we are comparing user experiences.

 

3. Lets have a competition. Let's compare the amount of hardware that works on linux, or even the number of systems that run well on linux, versus that of windows, and all the hardware that is no longer compatible with Windows 10 because its too old, likewise the number of systems that dont run well on windows because its too bloated. Lots of hardware became bricks because MS moved on from 95/98/XP/7.

 

4. You cant blame Linux for not supporting an API that is closed source and not available to them. Closed source standards will never win, see 3dfx glide. Opengl is the only standard that has actually stood the test of time.

 

Now your turn. Refute the claims I made in my original argument about why Windows 10 is a flaming turd.

 

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

6 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

You seem pretty angry that people use Windows 10.  Not saying Linux is shit I use it myself, but I know there are problems with both.

Because some Linux people can't just accept the fact that if people wanted to use a UNIX like OS, they would choose macOS instead. macOS and Windows still and will forever be the better daily use OS for the masses. Linux because how it's mostly community driven, will forever be a janky solution that wouldn't appeal to the average joe. 

[ltguy]

2 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

1. I don't think you can get a lot to work without it, though.  Don't you kinda need it to keep updating and what not?

2. They aren't infected directly though MS, though.  They're infected by 3rd parties via shady links, shady sites, or compromised sw like when that one CClearner thing got infected.  Or, usually downloading copyright material aka the more common way.  I guess that's a fair argument for comparing Red Hat vs Mint.

 

3. Well, the ones from 7 aren't much of a brick anymore ya there was a ton at first but plenty of hw from the 7 era eventually got a newer driver for support.  Isn't it kinda common to abandon hw, older than that though?  Also, is there any practical reason to run hw from the 90s today either?  That hw is kinda obsolete.

 

4.  Not saying I can blame Linux for that, but that's still a good reason not to switch.

 

You seem pretty angry that people use Windows 10.  Not saying Linux is shit I use it myself, but I know there are problems with both.

Wow. You didnt follow my directions at all. I said to refute the arguments I presented in my original argument. I'll paste them here again for you.

 

" No comments because Linux doesn't really need additional strengths over windows 10. That battle is won. Linux doesnt install crapware randomly that i never asked for, doesnt serve me ads despite being paid software, and gives the user control over updates/privacy/and reboots. Windows 10 is a flaming turd that people only tolerate because the AAA games are still there (and it has adobe, which still has users despite being poorly optimized and un-innovative). It's days are numbered as long as this continues and they continue to piss off the enterprise by having buggy forced updates that break critical systems. "

 

Not sure why you felt the need to keep talking about your claims over and over despite the fact the very first thing i said to you was how you cant convince me if you dont refute my claims. Again i'll paste that here for you once more.

 

" I can't be persuaded with your argument since you failed to refute any of the claims I made. I don't live in a world where copying and pasting is hard (thats easier than finagling with registries, dll's, and .net framework), i can't compare anything to linux's main os website because i dont know what main linux is? compared to microsoft's legit (legit what?). I cant even read that sentence "compared to MS's legit happened with Mint". Linux drivers are actually pretty stable now, You don't even mention by name what you feel is the most common API so I cant be swayed but that."

 

Please READ. It helps in having conversations. Likewise switching to personal attacks about how i'm angry doesnt reflect well on your character or you're intellect, and can also be off putting in trying to have converstions.

[Hyperwerk]

Updates can be automated say during boot if need be.   If you want to turn the machine on and off all the time it will keep itself up to date that way.   For my server I value uptime, so I love zero reboots whenever possible.   Not that hard typing

sudo -i

apt-get update && apt-get upgrade

is it? 

[BlueChinchillaEatingDorito]

2 minutes ago, ltguy said:

Wow. You didnt follow my directions at all. I said to refute the arguments I presented in my original argument. I'll paste them here again for you.

Bruh, you're not the boss of me. Get back in line. 

[ltguy]

2 minutes ago, BlueChinchillaEatingDorito said:

Bruh, you're not the boss of me. Get back in line. 

Huh? I never said anything to you?

[ltguy]

8 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

Because you're refuting with assumptions while acting like Linux is this utter perfection that is going to shut down MS then making absurd claims like using obsolete hw is a good argument.  Not saying all of your arguments are bad, but why would I want to refute that?

 Linux doesnt install crapware randomly that i never asked for, doesnt serve me ads despite being paid software, and gives the user control over updates/privacy/and reboots. Windows 10 is a flaming turd that people only tolerate because the AAA games are still there (and it has adobe, which still has users despite being poorly optimized and un-innovative). It's days are numbered as long as this continues and they continue to piss off the enterprise by having buggy forced updates that break critical systems.

 

I guess i can just keep stating this over and over since you's STILL never refuted any of these claims.

[Sniperfox47]

Does this surprise anyone? Pretty much any time there's a new CPU that comes out it performs way better on Linux initially because updates for the kernel are pushed months in advance for testing and validation, and then a lot of these updates get backports for the existing kernels used in LTS distros.

 

It's the exact opposite scenario of consumer graphics cards where some of them don't even work on Linux for a month or two (or 10) unless you get proprietary drivers (nvidia I'm looking at you) because all the testing and validation is done under Windows..

 

Windows 10 performance will probably pick up drastically with the 1809 release next month when they can push through some kernel updates.

 

 

[ltguy]

3 minutes ago, Sniperfox47 said:

Does this surprise anyone? Pretty much any time there's a new CPU that comes out it performs way better on Linux initially because updates for the kernel are pushed months in advance for testing and validation, and then a lot of these updates get backports for the existing kernels used in LTS distros.

 

It's the exact opposite scenario of consumer graphics cards where some of them don't even work on Linux for a month or two (or 10) unless you get proprietary drivers (nvidia I'm looking at you) because all the testing and validation is done under Windows..

 

Windows 10 performance will probably pick up drastically with the 1809 release next month when they can push through some kernel updates.

 

 

You're probably right. Windows always gets a patch to optimize for amd's out of the box cpu tech.

[ltguy]

2 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

That's quite an old argument from Linux fans, and they usually say it with every version of Windows.  I have yet to see MS lost mass amounts of consumers outside of one bad decision in 2013 with one product, and that loss was to Sony, not Linux.  You can like Linux more, but I don't see people switching in the masses like you keep claiming.  It didn't happen when Linux came out, and it has yet to happen in the past 27 years.  And, no this isn't "final nail in the coffin" for MS either.

Oh...i see. You have now convinced me that windows doesnt install crapware... windows doesnt serve ads, cares about my privacy, and does a great job with updates and reboots. I cant argue with your logic. You WIN.

[Sniperfox47]

5 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

That's quite an old argument from Linux fans, and they usually say it with every version of Windows.  I have yet to see MS lost mass amounts of consumers outside of one bad decision in 2013 with one product, and that loss was to Sony, not Linux.  You can like Linux more, but I don't see people switching in the masses like you keep claiming.  It didn't happen when Linux came out, and it has yet to happen in the past 27 years.  And, no this isn't "final nail in the coffin" for MS either.

I do want to point out that people *have* switched to Linux in masses. Android has a 42% market share of Mobile, Tablet, Laptop, and desktop devices. Windows is 36%. More traditional linux distros are ~1%. xP

 

P.S. In case it wasn't clear, Android is a distribution of Linux.

[rcmaehl]

Linux hasn't really embraced ease of use for some parts.

 

For example, it didn't have an easy to use "App Store" or package manager until like 2014 for the most popular distros.

[The Benjamins]

4 minutes ago, ltguy said:

Oh...i see. You have now convinced me that windows doesnt install crapware... windows doesnt serve ads, cares about my privacy, and does a great job with updates and reboots. I cant argue with your logic. You WIN.

Never had windows install crapware on its own or have it serve ads, where are these claims coming from?

[ltguy]

4 minutes ago, The Benjamins said:

Never had windows install crapware on its own or have it serve ads, where are these claims coming from?

https://www.theverge.com/2017/3/17/14956540/microsoft-windows-10-ads-taskbar-file-explorer

 

https://www.howtogeek.com/342871/hey-microsoft-stop-installing-apps-on-my-pc-without-asking/

 

https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-10-buggy-updates-our-patching-is-simple-regular-consistent-says-microsoft/

[Sniperfox47]

1 minute ago, The Benjamins said:

Never had windows install crapware on its own or have it serve ads, where are these claims coming from?

Windows 10 does. It will, unless you go to pretty extreme lengths to disable it or unplug it from the internet, download "suggested" apps for you and showcase them on your start menu.

 

The worst part was the first few upgrades where even the suggested apps that you removed all got reinstalled after the upgrade so you wound up with 20-30 random things like Candy Crush Saga and Facebook downloading.

 

It's a lot better now than it used to be and there's an option to hide it now, but not disable them from downloading in the first place.