Linux performance crushes Windows on new 32-core AMD flagship

[The Benjamins]

2 minutes ago, ltguy said:

https://www.theverge.com/2017/3/17/14956540/microsoft-windows-10-ads-taskbar-file-explorer

 

https://www.howtogeek.com/342871/hey-microsoft-stop-installing-apps-on-my-pc-without-asking/

Never got stuff like from how to geek.

 

The verge article is a Edge ad notification, not windows.

and for the onedrive thing, your in quick access which is where onedrive is located, why wouldn't it inform users of the upgrade options.

[ltguy]

2 minutes ago, The Benjamins said:

Never got stuff like from how to geek.

 

The verge article is a Edge ad notification, not windows.

and for the onedrive thing, your in quick access which is where onedrive is located, why wouldn't it inform users of the upgrade options.

https://www.pcworld.com/article/3039827/windows/7-ways-windows-10-pushes-ads-at-you-and-how-to-stop-them.html

[The Benjamins]

5 hours ago, Sniperfox47 said:

Windows 10 does. It will, unless you go to pretty extreme lengths to disable it or unplug it from the internet, download "suggested" apps for you and showcase them on your start menu.

 

The worst part was the first few upgrades where even the suggested apps that you removed all got reinstalled after the upgrade so you wound up with 20-30 random things like Candy Crush Saga and Facebook downloading.

 

It's a lot better now than it used to be and there's an option to hide it now, but not disable them from downloading in the first place.

never had is install anything with out my consent with out changing settings.

 

5 hours ago, ltguy said:

https://www.pcworld.com/article/3039827/windows/7-ways-windows-10-pushes-ads-at-you-and-how-to-stop-them.html

no where does it say what these suggestions are, AFAIK suggestions are not ads.

[Drak3]

1 minute ago, valdyrgramr said:

Weird, I have suggestions but nothing force installed outside of MS's own apps like the Xbox one.

A handful of games, namely 3 CandyCrush games, get installed on fresh installs. Easy removal.

[Sniperfox47]

9 minutes ago, The Benjamins said:

no where does it say what these suggestions are, AFAIK suggestions are not ads.

If suggestions are sponsored advertisements that they're being paid to show to you, that's literally what an Ad is...

 

And these are sponsored deals, specific apps each month get showcased in the suggested apps spot in partnership with Microsoft.

 

7 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

A handful of games, namely 3 CandyCrush games, get installed on fresh installs. Easy removal.

If they were baked into the OS Image no big deal. Annoying but whatever. But when they download from the store and waste my bandwidth it's a "who gave you permission to do that?"

 

6 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

Does that depend on the version of Windows 10?  I have pro which is sometimes labeled as enterprise, and I haven't gotten them.

Pro gets them and (like Home) can't normally turn them off.

 

Pro for Workstation I'm not sure about. I don't have a copy to test.

 

Enterprise and Education don't get them but they're not available as a standard consumer release.

 

Edit: correction Enterprise and Education *do* have them unless a group policy is in effect to disable it... WTF?

[The Benjamins]

1 minute ago, Sniperfox47 said:

If suggestions are sponsored advertisements that they're being paid to show to you, that's literally what an Ad is...

 

ya, so what are the suggestions? he is claiming they are ads but not all possible things that fall under a definition of a suggestion are not always ads.

 

I never got these too, so how about proof.

 

also candy crush has never installed it self to my PC, I run stock windows 10 pro

[Sniperfox47]

1 minute ago, The Benjamins said:

ya, so what are the suggestions? he is claiming they are ads but not all possible things that fall under a definition of a suggestion are not always ads.

 

I never got these too, so how about proof.

 

also candy crush has never installed it self to my PC, I run stock windows 10 pro

[mynameisjuan]

12 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

A handful of games, namely 3 CandyCrush games, get installed on fresh installs. Easy removal.

They are not even full installs. They are links to the game, they dont install until you click them. "Uninstalling them" is misleading. 

 

@Sniperfox47

[Drak3]

17 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

Does that depend on the version of Windows 10?  I have pro which is sometimes labeled as enterprise, and I haven't gotten them.

10 Home and Pro. Also, they've added games in some of the feature updates.

 

14 minutes ago, Sniperfox47 said:

If they were baked into the OS Image no big deal. Annoying but whatever. But when they download from the store and waste my bandwidth it's a "who gave you permission to do that?

That's the thing. The games are baked in, and the first thing Windows wants to do is update them.

 

8 minutes ago, mynameisjuan said:

They are not even full installs. They are links to the game, they dont install until you click them. "Uninstalling them" is misleading. 

Yes, they are full installs.

 

Windows 10 now comes with a few games, and some ads for a few more.

[mynameisjuan]

2 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

Yes, they are full installs.

 

Windows 10 now comes with a few games, and some ads for a few more.

They are not. Just tried it on a new PC and action center said installing. They are ads not installs. 

[Drak3]

4 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

Weird, my 8.1 was pro and it upgraded to pro, but the key MS gave me sometimes has it labeled as enterprise yet I don't have any of those.
 

I clean install 10 Pro on my main machine yearly, at the very least. The games are there. They're playable.

 

I don't connect it to a network until I've got Windows itself set up the way I want it.

[Sniperfox47]

10 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

Ya, I clean installed back in like late June, maybe early July, and I don't have them I also just gave you a screenshot of what the store says.

Do you use Windows 10 N? Would be curious to know if it behaves differently with regards to ads and preloaded apps. Might have to play around with it.

[Sniperfox47]

1 minute ago, valdyrgramr said:

Nope, just North America version/I live in the US just my real family is from Norway.

Weird

 

The Microsoft Consumer Experience stuff is one of the biggest "Windows as a Service" annoyances in Windows 10 so it seems odd that they'd skip you?

 

"We're investing in the development of post lisence monetization" and all that jazz.

[cj09beira]

1 hour ago, valdyrgramr said:

Who said I was arguing that?  You?  Maybe if you calmed down instead of yelling at people over the internet and demanding they bow down to you then maybe just maybe we could have continued the argument you wanted, but I'm not going to be forced to do what you say either.  Lastly, your argument hasn't worked in over twenty years, and people are still buying more copies of Windows in the masses compared to switching directly over to Linux, like you want them to.  Linux is far from perfect itself, and developers and other companies aren't switching over in the masses like you want either.

people many times are sheep, they go with the flow (not exclusively bad of course), windows has massive momentum, but its pissing off many people, but most of them are stuck because linux doesn't run something / hard to setup (for me games, might try to make it work via vms or looking glass but first i need a second gpu) still they are on the wrong path, and if they go too far people might abandon ship

the lack of support is a chicken and the egg problem, there isn't a big market so there isn't much development which means small market,

[Sniperfox47]

2 minutes ago, cj09beira said:

people many times are sheep, they go with the flow (not exclusively bad of course), windows has massive momentum, but its pissing off many people, but most of them are stuck because linux doesn't run something / hard to setup (for me games, might try to make it work via vms or looking glass but first i need a second gpu) still they are on the wrong path, and if they go too far people might abandon ship

the lack of support is a chicken and the egg problem, there isn't a big market so there isn't much development which means small market,

Valve may be making efforts on fixing that:

https://www.gamingonlinux.com/articles/valve-may-be-adding-support-for-using-compatibility-tools-for-playing-games-on-different-operating-systems.12349

[cj09beira]

2 minutes ago, valdyrgramr said:

I think it might not be an issue with every user, it might be one of those things where they select a bunch of people, annoy the shit out of some, and leave others alone.  That's my best guess.

the way they are running the company it would not surprise me one bit to see them testing the waters that way

[ScratchCat]

18 hours ago, Humbug said:

If it can it's a shame that they couldn't sort this out with Microsoft as well before launch... Obviously more difficult than dealing with the transparent Linux Kernel but still.

Did Microsoft have similar issues with Ryzen? If so it might be that AMD can make changes to the kernel to ensure everything runs correctly but cannot force the same changes with Windows despite Microsoft's new policy of updating everything all the time everywhere for any reason.

 

6 hours ago, rcmaehl said:

Linux hasn't really embraced ease of use for some parts.

 

For example, it didn't have an easy to use "App Store" or package manager until like 2014 for the most popular distros.

Most package managers are easier to use than Windows installers, just type the thing you want and it is served to you with all dependencies sorted.

App stores are not what people always need, just look how many people want to use the Microsoft Store.

[MMKing]

2 hours ago, Sniperfox47 said:

Valve may be making efforts on fixing that:

https://www.gamingonlinux.com/articles/valve-may-be-adding-support-for-using-compatibility-tools-for-playing-games-on-different-operating-systems.12349

Considering how incapable they are in curating their own store, i have little optimism that Valve is the solution. There is very good reason why more and more publishers and developers seek to distance themselves from the platform. Malware, viruses and cryptomining being the most recent issues.

 

All we can do for now is hope that Microsoft will resolve the issue, else AMD will have to design their future Threadripper CPUs in a different manner.

[Stefan Payne]

6 hours ago, cj09beira said:

people many times are sheep, they go with the flow (not exclusively bad of course), windows has massive momentum, but its pissing off many people, but most of them are stuck because linux doesn't run something / hard to setup

Yeah, like me because Linux just doesn't do what I want it to and has no viable alternatives for some software (like MPC-HC or MPC-BE)...

 

And to be honest:
I think they should start with a blank sheet and make a new, wonderful and modern OS that is made for now, from the ground up, based on the CP/M Model for stuff (ie Letters and doublepoint for Drives, not the Mounting Rubbish)...

As Linux is based on some shit from the 60s...

 

Sadly that probably won't happen any time soon

[leadeater]

3 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

Letters and doublepoint for Drives, not the Mounting Rubbish

Driver letters are terrible, mount points are far better which Windows can do as well. Ever tried to connect over 26 disks to Windows? Good luck using drive letters.

[Hyperwerk]

38 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Driver letters are terrible, mount points are far better which Windows can do as well. Ever tried to connect over 26 disks to Windows? Good luck using drive letters.

We just run them all as Raid 0  under RST for the best approach.  

[Stefan Payne]

54 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Driver letters are terrible, mount points are far better which Windows can do as well.

See, you can also have both with the Letter: Stuff.

And if one isn't enough, you use the next one. That should give you 26² or so available options.

 

But since you could also mount the drives/partitions wherever you want, you are free to do as you wish - that should be right up Richard S's Ally, shouldn't it?

 

And choice is always good!

 

54 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Ever tried to connect over 26 disks to Windows?

Since I can only connect up to 14 drives to my Computer (10 on the Gigabyte X79A-UD5 and another 4 on the 4 Port PCIe S-ATA3 Controller) (and my case only supports 11), not really...

And I don't really want to try using the Dell Perc5i with full drives...

[leadeater]

1 hour ago, Stefan Payne said:

Since I can only connect up to 14 drives to my Computer (10 on the Gigabyte X79A-UD5 and another 4 on the 4 Port PCIe S-ATA3 Controller) (and my case only supports 11), not really...

And I don't really want to try using the Dell Perc5i with full drives...

More a thing when using iSCSI or FC to connect remote block devices to a server, common scenario would be an MSSQL server which will have 3 or 4 disks per instance and having 5 to 10 instances isn't uncommon. Mount points are great and honestly drive letters adds nothing, it makes file system navigation worse not better and doesn't add any separation a folder doesn't also offer.

 

Also nothing is more annoying than a user asking for their "P" drive to be mapped since it's become disconnected, well that tells me nothing. "P" could be anything, one persons P could be mapped to a different share than another, argh driver letters.

 

P.S. I'm no Linux fan but mount points just are better.

[Stefan Payne]

12 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Mount points are great and honestly drive letters adds nothing, it makes file system navigation worse not better and doesn't add any separation a folder doesn't also offer.

Well, that's kinda personal preference.

And the best way to do things is to give the people using the stuff the choice to do it the way they want to or like it.

 

You like the Mounting stuff more, I like the Driveletter Stuff more.

And depending on the problem, one or the other could make more sense. So to have both is the only good solution...

 

12 minutes ago, leadeater said:

P.S. I'm no Linux fan but mount points just are better.

Depends on the Problem and how you have to navigate that.

I'm not saying that the Mounting stuff is bullshit, I'm saying that not having the option between Driveletters (CP/M Style) and Mounting is bullshit

 

 

As for the Users:
Well, lets just say I know, you don't need to tell me

I was working Phone Support at one time and the Company I worked with recently changed the pinout of the modular Board of the PSU. And at the time there was a Din A5 piece of paper - in RED, with white Letters inside the Box, on top of the PSU (so the Consumer has to see it), that has only "ONLY use Cables that come with this PSU!" on it. Nothing more.

And guess what many people did? Use Cables from the old PSU....

And they also won't admit their Mistake, so I even if I ask them: Are the cables the right ones out of the Box....

You guessed the Answer: Yeah, of course it was the right one.

And then I told them to get a Cable out of the Box and try it with that. And magicaly the PC began to work...

 

And that was a daily occurance. Sometimes even multiple per day...

 

[suicidalfranco]

6 hours ago, Stefan Payne said:

As Linux is based on some shit from the 60s...

 

written in 92 without any actual function other than some form of hello world...