Microsoft wants to force Windows 10 Mail users to open links in Edge

[TopWargamer]

Next thing you know, those silly boys over at Microsoft will start installing Libre Office with your Office 365 subscription.

[Drak3]

3 hours ago, LAwLz said:

But they are locking out other browsers.

On THEIR app. And it's also their product, they've got the right to lock it down.

[GoodBytes]

11 hours ago, LAwLz said:

It's because gmail uses OAuth 2.

Not sure how Outlook handles it but I just tested the UWP mail app and it also opens a browser. It's just that the app opens a browser window within it.

No I mean, it doesn't open a small panel where you login and allow. It opens my web browser, with gmail.com... that is all. That is all it does for me. I see my e-mail, as I was logged in last time, and didn't log out. In other words, I could have open my web browser, and type in "gmail.com" (or pick a bookmark), and get the same result.

 

Anyway, that particular mail app is crap.  That said, I am not happy with Mail app forcing to use Edge.

[LAwLz]

29 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

On THEIR app.

Both in their own apps, as well as on the platform as a whole. Check the things I wrote after the part you quoted.

 

30 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

And it's also their product, they've got the right to lock it down.

The law disagrees.

Not saying you have to agree with the law, but the part about them having the "right" to do it may not be as correct as you think.

Microsoft has been found guilty of abusing their market dominance to push their browser using unfair advantages in both EU and in the US.

United States v. Microsoft Corp. (US case, 2001)

Microsoft Corp v Commission ( EU case, 2007)

It might seem silly that companies can't do whatever they want with their own products, but these antitrust laws are extremely important for maintaining a fair and competitive marketplace.

[Drak3]

19 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

Both in their own apps, as well as on the platform as a whole. Check the things I wrote after the part you quoted.

 

The law disagrees.

Not saying you have to agree with the law, but the part about them having the "right" to do it may not be as correct as you think.

Microsoft has been found guilty of abusing their market dominance to push their browser using unfair advantages in both EU and in the US.

United States v. Microsoft Corp. (US case, 2001)

Microsoft Corp v Commission ( EU case, 2007)

It might seem silly that companies can't do whatever they want with their own products, but these antitrust laws are extremely important for maintaining a fair and competitive marketplace.

I believe that both the US and the scum that is the EU, grossly overstepped their boundaries.

They have the right to sell their product with lock outs, they've long chosen not to. But that doesn't give any person or government the right to infringe upon MS' right. Particularly when there is a plethora of options put there.

 

MS locking their apps to their browser is far from unfair.

[LAwLz]

12 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

They have the right to sell their product with lock outs

They clearly don't. it is your opinion that they should have the right to do so, but that is not the law.

 

13 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

they've long chosen not to

Because of the anti-trust case. Now that it has expired since a few years, they are attempting it again.

 

13 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

But that doesn't give any person or government the right to infringe upon MS' right.

Again, MS does not have the right to do these things. Your opinion is that they should have the right to do the things they did, but the law does not agree, and it is the law we follow.

 

14 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

MS locking their apps to their browser is far from unfair.

In your opinion.

[Blademaster91]

26 minutes ago, Drak3 said:

I believe that both the US and the scum that is the EU, grossly overstepped their boundaries.

They have the right to sell their product with lock outs, they've long chosen not to. But that doesn't give any person or government the right to infringe upon MS' right. Particularly when there is a plethora of options put there.

 

MS locking their apps to their browser is far from unfair.

While maybe fair to an extent in their software ecosystem,it's going to monopolize other software companies out of the market as Microsoft slowly crams their UWP garbage down everyone's throats. The anti-trust lawsuits against Microsoft in the past is very similar to what they are doing again,and is very good reason for another investigation from the US & EU.

[Bananasplit_00]

personally i just always have the browser open and do all my email stuff from there, never apealed to me even slightly to do it any other way tbh

[suicidalfranco]

5 hours ago, LAwLz said:

they are also prohibiting browser engines from being UWP. If you want to make a UWP browser, it has to be based on Edge. Neither Chrome nor Firefox can ever become UWP apps, because Microsoft doesn't allow it.

Inb4 "Apple does it too" argument

[mynameisjuan]

7 hours ago, Misanthrope said:

For home users: honestly who uses a mail app? In fact who doesn't just uses gmail straight up in the browser?

From an ISPs perspective, I would say a huge portion of people dont even have gmail. People tend to rely on their ISPs email service or dont even know gmail exist. I cant tell you how many times I wanted to tell a customer to just switch to gmail. 

[elfensky]

8 hours ago, Misanthrope said:

For home users: honestly who uses a mail app? In fact who doesn't just uses gmail straight up in the browser?

 

Outside that if we're talking the full outlook: it's just one of those things where there's nothing that can quite replace an exchange server. Like it or leave it if you ever work on a medium to large office chances are you will be thrown into outlook for the exchange functionality no matter what.

 

This is why they've been able to cram Skype down business users throats (Though not quite the same Skype, Skype for business actually with Link formerly Office communicator than consumer skype) because well, if you are already paying for an office license (And again, if you need Excel at all which 99% of offices do, you need Office period: no true replacement for anyone above casual use) then you have the client and if you have a Windows server you can probably get exchange in there for cheap.

But from what I understand tha change it purely for the win10 mail app? Personally I actually use it, though purely to get native windows notifications when email arrives.

[Misanthrope]

19 minutes ago, ElfenSky said:

But from what I understand tha change it purely for the win10 mail app? Personally I actually use it, though purely to get native windows notifications when email arrives.

I can't confirm but this windows 10 mail app looks like the stripped down version of outlook.

[Mooshi]

7 hours ago, LAwLz said:

But they are locking out other browsers.

Not only are they ignoring the user set defaults inside several of their own apps (some of which are not removable) and core Windows functionality (like search), they are also prohibiting browser engines from being UWP. If you want to make a UWP browser, it has to be based on Edge. Neither Chrome nor Firefox can ever become UWP apps, because Microsoft doesn't allow it.

 

 

Not sure what you're trying to say.

Are you trying to equate a lack of positive changes with negative changes in order to point out how "hypocritical" people are?

It's more I think it's funny IE got lots of flack and Edge does as well for other reasons. Windows 10 features is like Roman Reigns (if you watch WWE or read about it) - not bad on the surface, but has a push that doesn't sit well with most fans.

[GoodBytes]

17 hours ago, LAwLz said:

I think Edge is decent, but not good. Personally, I would never use it, but I don't think it is as terrible as IE (which isn't saying much). For example it can't even display basic information about the SSL certificates (something even IE does better than Edge). But I think that's beside the point. It doesn't matter if Edge was the best browser. You should NOT ignore the defaults you user have explicitly set.

With the coming update of Windows 10, you'll be able to see SSL certification details.

You just click on the lock icon on the address bar and pick the option "View Certificate", then you'll have this side panel open:

 

But yes, it is missing some advances features, as I noted you can't right-click on a image and pick "View image", for example. You can save it, but that is all (it is not like if Edge can't display an image by itself, it can, just the option missing).

 

So like I said, it is coming along... slowly but coming along. I think once they have these kind of advance features, they'll start seeing people switching. But most of the average user uses what companies or some family member install on their system and told to use. And I think that is why Microsoft wants to push Edge in people faces.

[DrMacintosh]

Even macOS allows you to set a default mail app and browser  

[LAwLz]

13 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

With the coming update of Windows 10, you'll be able to see SSL certification details.

You just click on the lock icon on the address bar and pick the option "View Certificate", then you'll have this side panel open:

Doesn't work in my version but I guess I don't have that update yet.

I know Microsoft are constantly adding new things to Edge but it really feels like as soon as they fix some missing feature, I give it a try I discover 10 more that are missing. They have managed to build a fairly good foundation with the browser and JS engines, but all the other stuff seems to be lagging behind Firefox and Chrome by quite a lot.

Mozilla and Google are not sitting on their asses either, so while Microsoft are playing catch up the others are improving too.

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

Even macOS allows you to set a default mail app and browser  

You can still set a default mail and browser app. Its just a potential change would make links opened in the built-in mail app open in edge.

[Nowak]

1 hour ago, GoodBytes said:

With the coming update of Windows 10, you'll be able to see SSL certification details.

Edge needs to be decoupled from Windows 10 updates. The rate at which it's advancing is pathetically slow.

[DrMacintosh]

1 hour ago, tjcater said:

You can still set a default mail and browser app. Its just a potential change would make links opened in the built-in mail app open in edge.

In macOS all links system wide open in the default browser as the name default would imply   

[Guest]

39 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

In macOS all links system wide open in the default browser as the name default would imply   

Hyperlinks do open in the specified default app in Windows unless an app overrides this behavior. E.g. the mail app in this edge case (Sorry bad pun)

[GoodBytes]

45 minutes ago, Daring said:

Edge needs to be decoupled from Windows 10 updates. The rate at which it's advancing is pathetically slow.

I agree. I know it was in the plans, to have Edge engine tied with Windows (because of its integration with UWP apps), and have the front-end GUI separated. So that they can focus on web browser features. But sadly that has never happened, and they are not a single word. I don't think MS managed to pull that off.  Maybe a lack of managerial push, or they enclosed themselves in a such a way that they are stuck. I really don't know. Regardless, it is very sad.

[Nicnac]

Really wanted to get a nice windows laptop after my now 6 year old mbp but naaaah.... guess I'll stay apple for now. Everything is just so much simpler and more convenient.

[Nowak]

2 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

I agree. I know it was in the plans, to have Edge engine tied with Windows (because of its integration with UWP apps), and have the front-end GUI separated. So that they can focus on web browser features. But sadly that has never happened, and they are not a single word. I don't think MS managed to pull that off.  Maybe a lack of managerial push, or they enclosed themselves in a such a way that they are stuck. I really don't know. Regardless, it is very sad.

Probably a lack of a managerial push, because, well, remember that the guy who oversaw the death of Windows Phone is in charge of Windows overall now. Great confidence in his leadership skills right there.

[GoodBytes]

1 minute ago, Nicnac said:

Really wanted to get a nice windows laptop after my now 6 year old mbp but naaaah.... guess I'll stay apple for now. Everything is just so much simpler and more convenient.

Excellent. So then it is settled. Anything else you would like to contribute? You can put that in your status update.

[Nicnac]

17 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Excellent. So then it is settled. Anything else you would like to contribute? You can put that in your status update.

you can follow me to get my status updates as well