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Seagate no longer providing RPM speed of consumer drives

Jito463
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So, we just talked with Seagate tech support, and the company's new policy is that they no longer provide the RPM speed of any of their consumer grade (Barracuda) drives.  There is no information in the technical documents on their website, and tech support will not give any such information out, because even to them it doesn't exist.

 

According to the tech, they claim it's based on platter density and controller speed, and that RPM isn't important anymore.

 

I don't have a link to this information, as we discovered it by calling Seagate directly.  We were forced to do so, after checking on a 4TB Seagate drive and realizing that we couldn't find any relevant data on the RPM speed.  Some sites were reporting 7200RPM, some were reporting 5900RPM and others had no information listed at all.

 

Any thoughts on this?  I'm not a fan of this policy, whatsoever (then again, I've never been a big fan of Seagate).

https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/449522-smoking-barrels-ltts-unnofficial-gun-club/

 

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Well I can say my 3TB WD black at 7200RPM is miles faster than my old 3TB WD Green 5400RPM

▓ƆԀ▓ S▓₱▓Ɇ▓c▓s▓: i7 6ʇɥפᴉƎ00K (4.4ghz), Asus DeLuxe X99A II, GT҉X҉1҉0҉8҉0 Zotac Amp ExTrꍟꎭe),Si6F4Gb D???????r PlatinUm, EVGA G2 Sǝʌǝᘉ5ᙣᙍᖇᓎᙎᗅᖶt, Phanteks Enthoo Primo, 3TB WD Black, 500gb 850 Evo, H100iGeeTeeX, Windows 10, K70 R̸̢̡̭͍͕̱̭̟̩̀̀̃́̃͒̈́̈́͑̑́̆͘͜ͅG̶̦̬͊́B̸͈̝̖͗̈́, G502, HyperX Cloud 2s, Asus MX34. פN∩SW∀S 960 EVO

Just keeping this here as a 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well i mean since i don't understand why anybody would buy anything other than a 7200rpm hard drive, i wouldn't ditch seagate for not providing rpm speed, because i have such brand loyalty to them.

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My general rule of thumb:

2.5": 5400 RPM

3.5": 7200 RPM for consumer and 10000/15000 RPM for enterprise grade (usually SAS drives)

unless otherwise specified.

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Considering 7200RPM drives are not al equal, I can understand the reason to do this. RPM really isn't a guarantee of performance -- although generally, 7200rpm drives are faster than 5400rpm drives.

 

Although this sounds both too surprising and not surprising at the same time. 

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8 minutes ago, terrytek said:

well i mean since i don't understand why anybody would buy anything other than a 7200rpm hard drive, i wouldn't ditch seagate for not providing rpm speed, because i have such brand loyalty to them.

Why do you have blind loyalty to a Company like Seagate? That's not a healthy way to look at products. Seagate is here to make money for their shareholders, just like any other company - including WDC.

 

On topic: I have mixed feelings about this - many modern HDD's actually have a variable RPM, based on the power needs of the drive at any given moment. Though honestly, if the other specs (such as Read/Write/Random IO, etc) are listed, and the drive is benchmarked, then ultimately who cares what RPM it runs at?

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If they don't mention, then it is 5400RPM HDD, that is who I assume things.

And anything bellow 7200RPM should not be purchased at all costs. Already the fastest 7200RPM is a pain to use.

I don't even care if it is a hybrid HDD. 7200RPM or faster... or nothing.

 

I am sick and tired of people buying new computers, and they are just as slow as their 5 year old computer because their HDDs is still the same 5400RPM junk. And it makes my life a pain, why I try to work with these computers.

 

If Seagate has trouble manufacturing 7200RPM HDDs then it makes my life easier. Never recommend or even consider their HDDs at all cost. Looks like my recommendations would be W.D Blue for backups and casually used extra HDD (like complementing an SSD) or W.D. Black series for something livable.

 

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3 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

If they don't mention, then it is 5400RPM HDD, that is who I assume things.

And anything bellow 7200RPM should not be purchased at all costs. Already the fastest 7200RPM is a pain to use.

 

It depends on the use case. I'm using an old ass 640gb 7200rpm 2.5" drive that I'm sure is slower than 5900rpm WD Red and I have no issues gaming off of it. Maybe when I get home tomorrow I'll throw my WD Green that I have lying around into my computer and trying to game off of it, but I honestly don't expect to have any issues with that either. 

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2 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

If they don't mention, then it is 5400RPM HDD, that is who I assume things.

And anything bellow 7200RPM should not be purchased at all costs. Already the fastest 7200RPM is a pain to use.

 

Personally I would actually say, if they don't list it, it's probably 5900 RPM - that's the RPM that WDC uses for a lot of their drives, for example.

 

As for avoiding anything not 7200 RPM? That's silly. Not all 7200 RPM drives are made equal to begin with. You should be basing your purchase decision on verifiable, objective test results, via benchmarking. Not a hardware spec that may have some impact in speed.

 

If the drive performs well in the standard metrics (Read/Write, random and seq.), then it's a good drive, regardless of the underlying tech.

 

If Seagate starts to make all their drives with low RPM speeds, and it affects performance negatively, it WILL show up in benchmarks and reviews.

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Why not just overclock the disk to spin faster?

 

EDIT:

I saw you rise from the dead certain someone.

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1 minute ago, dalekphalm said:

Personally I would actually say, if they don't list it, it's probably 5900 RPM - that's the RPM that WDC uses for a lot of their drives, for example.

 

As for avoiding anything not 7200 RPM? That's silly. Not all 7200 RPM drives are made equal to begin with. You should be basing your purchase decision on verifiable, objective test results, via benchmarking. Not a hardware spec that may have some impact in speed.

 

If the drive performs well in the standard metrics (Read/Write, random and seq.), then it's a good drive, regardless of the underlying tech.

 

If Seagate starts to make all their drives with low RPM speeds, and it affects performance negatively, it WILL show up in benchmarks and reviews.

From the same year of release, a 7200RPM is always faster than a 5400RPM HDD of the same year.

Making a faster motor, and putting a faster controller chip is not rocket science in the HDD space. The tech is old, the controllers, motors, are cheap, platters are solid. To me, it is all about them maximizing profits by delivering crap drives to consumers. When the competitor has no problems, you know that is something is fishy.

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8 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

I am sick and tired of people buying new computers, and they are just as slow as their 5 year old computer because their HDDs is still the same 5400RPM junk. And it makes my life a pain, why I try to work with these computers.

Yeah, every new build I do with friends I force them to get a SSD unless the budget is really that bad (Most of the time I can convince them to cough up a bit more for one). I tend to push my friends towards SSD drive / separate hard drive systems. No complaints so far.

 

But yeah, I've also had my fair share of family laptops being sent to be to be fixed...with 5400RPM drives...and usually 60+ failed sectors because they abused the poor laptop. And then complain when I say that drive is going to fail soon...

 

Though I fear the day my family members actually manage to get enough viruses to make a SSD slow...that would be nightmarish. haha.

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5 minutes ago, WereCat said:

Why not just overclock the disk to spin faster?

 

EDIT:

I saw you rise from the dead.

never forget intel 730 overclocked SSDs

idk

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Just now, Droidbot said:

never forget intel 730 overclocked SSDs

Yea, I remember those. Did anyone actually overclocked them and used them like that? It was so pointless imo:D

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Said it before, will say it again: Seagate won't exist in 10 years. At least not if they are so incapable of adapting to the new markets. As if mechanical drives weren't obsolete enough as it is? Obviously, this just means all their drives will be 5400 RPM, because they are cheaper to make.

Watching Intel have competition is like watching a headless chicken trying to get out of a mine field

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2 minutes ago, Notional said:

Said it before, will say it again: Seagate won't exist in 10 years. At least not if they are so incapable of adapting to the new markets. As if mechanical drives weren't obsolete enough as it is? Obviously, this just means all their drives will be 5400 RPM, because they are cheaper to make.

I think you really under estimate who will and will not exist in 10 years...

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Notional said:

Said it before, will say it again: Seagate won't exist in 10 years. At least not if they are so incapable of adapting to the new markets. As if mechanical drives weren't obsolete enough as it is? Obviously, this just means all their drives will be 5400 RPM, because they are cheaper to make.

A monster such as seagate will absolutely not crumble in 10 years. Besides, in what world are hard drives obsolete? For mass data storage, SSDs are so cost inefficient that no enterprise would consider buying them. 

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24 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

Why do you have blind loyalty to a Company like Seagate? That's not a healthy way to look at products. Seagate is here to make money for their shareholders, just like any other company - including WDC.

 

On topic: I have mixed feelings about this - many modern HDD's actually have a variable RPM, based on the power needs of the drive at any given moment. Though honestly, if the other specs (such as Read/Write/Random IO, etc) are listed, and the drive is benchmarked, then ultimately who cares what RPM it runs at?

I don't think it is a big deal, the cheap seagate drives I got out of external enclosers can do 200+ Read 100+ write. (8TB drive for $190 from a sale on external drives, took the drives out for my NAS)

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The OP stated exactly whats on Seagates website: http://www.seagate.com/tech-insights/choosing-high-performance-storage-is-not-about-rpm-anymore-master-ti/

 

Quote

But even as hard drive technology has matured, the way of measuring the performance of new HDD models has remained relatively consistent and closely related to two specifications:

  • The density of bits storage on the circular platters—called areal density.
  • The speed at which the platters rotate—called RPM.

The performance of a hard drive is most effectively measured by how fast data can be transferred from the spinning media (platters), through the read/write head and passed to a host computer. This is commonly referred to as data throughput and typically measured in gigabytes (or gigabits) per second. In either case, data throughput is directly related to how densely data is packed on the hard drive platters and how fast these platters spin.

 

..snip..

 

Solid state hybrid drives make RPM largely irrelevant

It’s no surprise that when many people begin evaluating the expected performance of the new solid state hybrid drive (SSHD) technology, they look at the RPM specification since an SSHD is basically an HDD with a bit of solid state technology integrated into the device. So RPM should still matter right? The truth is, RPM in an SSHD device is largely irrelevant. Here’s why:

SSHD design is based on identifying frequently used data and placing it in the SSD or NAND flash portion of the drive. NAND flash media is very fast, partly because there are no moving parts since it’s made of solid state circuitry. Therefore, when data is requested by host computers, there is typically not a dependence on pulling this data directly from the spinning media in the HDD portion.

rpm-pcmarkvantage-500x223.jpg

 

So, primarily RPM is irrelevant in hybrid drives? But they also talk about increasing data density, so that you can get more usable surface area from the external portions of the disk, instead of limiting the area to cover the same space as the inside tracks.

rpm-drivecapacity-500x225.jpg

 

No date of information for this portion of the website.

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Fuck Seagate. After a friend got 3 (THREE!!) dead drives IN A ROW (and on his first DIY PC, no less), we bought a WD drive, named it "FUCK SEAGATE" and never gave them a penny again. 

 

Oh and they wanted him to pay even more to get a custom box and cardboard shock absorber for return shipping. Fuck Seagate.

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2 minutes ago, DarkBlade2117 said:

I think you really under estimate who will and will not exist in 10 years...

Do elaborate, please.

Just now, bgibbz said:

A monster such as seagate will absolutely not crumble in 10 years. Besides, in what world are hard drives obsolete? For mass data storage, SSDs are so cost inefficient that no enterprise would consider buying them. 

 

In every world but very very data intensive data centres, like youtube. HDD's are almost wiped out of the consumer space. Almost every laptop today has an SSD, and most, even the cheap ones, exclusively use SSD's.

Many data centres use SSD's as scratch disks, and well most hot storage either is or will transition into SSD's. HDD's are basically only useful for cold storage most places. In 10 years, HDD's should have reached their max capacity, and SSD's should have surpassed them in storage capacity, and probably even price. As SSD's takes up less space per GB, and uses less power, produces a lot less heat, and has a much much much faster latency, every data centre wants to move to SSD's, when the cost allows it.

Watching Intel have competition is like watching a headless chicken trying to get out of a mine field

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1 minute ago, Notional said:

Do elaborate, please.

Well we have no clue what will happen. Intel may not be in the CPU market or completely obsolete in 10 years or Apple could be dead.

 

 

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