Valve Found Guilty Of Breaching Australian Consumer Law

[AppleWhizzer]

Valve has been found guilty of breaching the Australian consumer law, because they don't offer refunds. This is very interesting, and about time someone did something about it. Read more here:

http://www.kotaku.com.au/2016/03/valve-found-guilty-of-breaching-australian-consumer-law/

[Bhav]

They already started giving refunds in the UK ages ago.

 

It's dumb that it takes so long for trading laws to take effect on such things.

[spexiono]

I got a refund for some DLC in Aus, so that's worked for a little while. it seems they're either still not completely happy or courts are really slow.

 

Something of note "Initially, in August 2014, the ACCC asked that Valve".

[goodtofufriday]

Laughable that they try to say they don't officially provide goods in Australia. If they actively blocked sales in aus and people got around it, sure.  But they made their services reachable in aus and obviously accepted aus currency. 

 

I think vavle could still be sued for the years that they didn't provide the service as they were technically breaking the law all those years. And I wonder if the 15min return window is really enough to satisfy regulations. 

[spexiono]

3 minutes ago, goodtofufriday said:

obviously accepted aus currency.

They accept USD not AUD. I'm pretty sure the currency is exchanged before it gets to them, especially if you use something like PayPal.

[dalekphalm]

53 minutes ago, spexiono said:

They accept USD not AUD. I'm pretty sure the currency is exchanged before it gets to them, especially if you use something like PayPal.

Regardless of what currency Valve actually receives in their bank account, they still provide Regional Pricing, as shown in local currency. Eg: When I buy something on Steam, I'm paying in CAD. If I'm paying directly (eg: Credit Card), then it's Valve's bank account is doing the currency exchange. Same with PayPal. If I pay with PayPal, it's CAD I'm paying with - that means it's CAD that PayPal deposits to Valve Accounts.

[SansVarnic]

1 hour ago, AppleWhizzer said:

Valve has been found guilty of breaching the Australian consumer law, because they don't offer refunds. This is very interesting, and about time someone did something about it. Read more here:

http://www.kotaku.com.au/2016/03/valve-found-guilty-of-breaching-australian-consumer-law/

Suggestion, you might wanna fix up your post to meet News Posting Requirements . . . . before the Mods get you 

 

 

[PerfectTemplar]

Umm, it's not because they don't give refunds. It's because their refunds are not good enough. In Australia, we are entitled to a refund regardless of their conditions of; how many hours played; how long you've owned it (it's longer here than Valve give us time for) ect.. 

[Delicieuxz]

38 minutes ago, PerfectTemplar said:

Umm, it's not because they don't give refunds. It's because their refunds are not good enough. In Australia, we are entitled to a refund regardless of their conditions of; how many hours played; how long you've owned it (it's longer here than Valve give us time for) ect.. 

Is that saying that a person could buy any game, play it through to completion, and then return it?

 

Valve's return policy is to allow returns within 2 week or 2 hours of playtime, whichever comes first.

[WolfDeville]

Uhm what? I've gotten 3 things refund over the last 6 months...

 

edit: Nvm, just read the article and saw this

Quote

Valve has since implemented its own refund policy in the wake of this case, but had no refund policy in August 2014 when the ACCC initially sued.

 

[Virus__]

Good. Now can we please have AUD as the form of currency, not USD making shit more expensive than EB Games & JB HiFi for new release titles.

[Fetzie]

1 hour ago, huilun02 said:

Why not screw the law and require all foreign purchases to be made on Steam website with US domain?

 

Gabe be like "I've had enough bending over to cater to all manner of complicated demands. Now you bend over or don't buy at all"

Because then people would be less likely to buy something spontaneously, because it would take more than a minute to complete the purchase. That's not sarcasm either

[Ridska]

This post is going to get locked faster than linus can bring back and old segment from the dead.

[thrillhouse]

2 hours ago, Delicieuxz said:

Is that saying that a person could buy any game, play it through to completion, and then return it?

 

Valve's return policy is to allow returns within 2 week or 2 hours of playtime, whichever comes first.

Nah, he is over simplifying it. There has to be a legitimate reason for the refund like its not as was described, has a major fault ect and those would be rights regardless of time played/owned up to a reasonable period (what reasonable is dependent generally on the situation, what ACCC deem as reasonable and what a judge agrees with you is reasonable).

If you simply do not want the game any more because you don't like it or you don't enjoy it but it's as described, without any major faults you are entirely at the mercy of store. "I've changed my mind" Refunds are perfectly fine to be refused by a store in Australia unless otherwise stated or described by the store.

I think Valves policy would be at odds with the ACL (Australian consumer law) where if a game dramatically changed (in a detrimental fashion) or became broken AFTER the 2 weeks or 2 hours. ACL would entitle you to a refund but valves policy wouldn't cover it.

Edited March 29, 2016 by thrillhouse
grammer

[Serin]

Makes one wonder if Uplay will be next for this what with their total lack of refund options anywhere(as far as I'm aware).

[Master Disaster]

4 hours ago, huilun02 said:

Why not screw the law and require all foreign purchases to be made on Steam website with US domain?

 

Gabe be like "I've had enough bending over to cater to all manner of complicated demands. Now you bend over or don't buy at all"

Its not that simple, for a business to trade in a foreign country they have to abide by the laws in that country.

 

As long as Valve is selling product in other countries the have to abide by any and all applicable laws.

[PerfectTemplar]

6 hours ago, Delicieuxz said:

Is that saying that a person could buy any game, play it through to completion, and then return it?

 

Valve's return policy is to allow returns within 2 week or 2 hours of playtime, whichever comes first.

Under Australian Consumer Law, yes. There is no distinction between playing a game a certain amount and when you can return it. People often buy games, complete them and then return them to EBGames (console games). Which is dodgy af but they don't really lose money on it as very few people abuse it.

[KuJoe]

1 hour ago, Master Disaster said:

Its not that simple, for a business to trade in a foreign country they have to abide by the laws in that country.

 

As long as Valve is selling product in other countries the have to abide by any and all applicable laws.

Not true unless Valve has offices in that country. As a US company the only laws I have to follow are US laws except for specific laws that span countries via treaties. Especially for non-tangible goods like a downloaded copy of a video game.

 

Does anybody know if Valve has a physical presence in Australia?

[ApolloEleven]

Um what? I live in Australia and Steam has refunded me a couple of times already, I got refunded BroForce because I complaint their multiplayer is not working properly and Blazing Angels 2 because it only works on Windows XP.

 

EDIT: Nvm this was before the Steam refund scheme

[dalekphalm]

8 hours ago, huilun02 said:

Why not screw the law and require all foreign purchases to be made on Steam website with US domain?

 

Gabe be like "I've had enough bending over to cater to all manner of complicated demands. Now you bend over or don't buy at all"

Yeah... why would you want this? Do you want less consumer protection? Why would you possibly side with Valve on this? They are straight up in the wrong.

[dalekphalm]

Just now, huilun02 said:

I don't want less consumer protection. I want reasonable consumer protection.

Steam does not sell physical goods and it would hurt their business if people could get refunds after completing games.

 

How bout getting a refund for every movie you watched? Cinemas and content providers might as well close down then.

Certainly, there is a fine line that must be balanced. But Australian Consumer Law does provide protections to the consumer in a manner that is not limited by time. I agree with this.

 

Of course, if you play through the game and beat it and then return it, you're abusing the system. But what if you play through a game, get half way through it, and then encounter a game breaking bug that prevents you from going any further? Should you get a refund in this case? I think so. Yet you'd be past the "2 hour limit" of in-game gameplay that Valve has set in stone.

[Guest]

It's not because they don't offer refunds, it's because of the refunding laws in Aussie Land. 

[Kobathor]

20 minutes ago, dalekphalm said:

Certainly, there is a fine line that must be balanced. But Australian Consumer Law does provide protections to the consumer in a manner that is not limited by time. I agree with this.

 

Of course, if you play through the game and beat it and then return it, you're abusing the system. But what if you play through a game, get half way through it, and then encounter a game breaking bug that prevents you from going any further? Should you get a refund in this case? I think so. Yet you'd be past the "2 hour limit" of in-game gameplay that Valve has set in stone.

So, every other country I've heard that doesn't have that law doesn't get the benefits, but Australia does because of their stupid fucking laws? No wonder business sucks in Australia, nobody wants to sell something that can be returned at any time under any circumstances. I wouldn't want to do business in such a place.

I'm with Valve on this one. The 2-week-2-hour rule is the same for every country, or it's gone for every country. They would get so much heat for giving Australia benefits over the majority of their customers, that they'd probably rather quit selling games in Australia. It's either shaft the Aussies, or change the return rule for everybody.

[Energycore]

Wait Kotaku is still up?

[TrigrH]

1 hour ago, Kobathor said:

So, every other country I've heard that doesn't have that law doesn't get the benefits, but Australia does because of their stupid fucking laws? No wonder business sucks in Australia, nobody wants to sell something that can be returned at any time under any circumstances. I wouldn't want to do business in such a place.

I'm with Valve on this one. The 2-week-2-hour rule is the same for every country, or it's gone for every country. They would get so much heat for giving Australia benefits over the majority of their customers, that they'd probably rather quit selling games in Australia. It's either shaft the Aussies, or change the return rule for everybody.

Valve is already shafting us on price that's why I know every trick in the book to get legitimate steam keys without using the stupid overpriced steam store.