Thoughts on gun control?

[CalebTheEternal]

 

Should there be more gun control?

 

Yes - its a deadly weapon, in the wrong hands its GOING to end up with somebody being killed. No guns dont kill people on their own, but the more guns that are lying around the easier they are to get a hold of

 

Most crimes are NOT pre-meditated, but are in the heat of the moment, if there are no guns around, nobody gets shot

 

Sure if a criminal wants to get a gun, nothing will stop them, that doesn't mean everyone should have one, we are just fine in the UK without everyone having guns - heck almost anyone here can get a shotgun licence, but nobody does, because nobody needs a gun

 

 

Should there be safety training at gun ranges?

 

Yes, gun drills and safety should be number priority to gun owners, being able to shoot a gun is not enough, learning how to be safe with it is another

 

Should it be required that you lock up ALL guns inside your own house? 

 

YES - while you may have the best intentions, somebody could break into your house and find it, a kid could find it, etc, imagine your kids friends coming over and finding a loaded gun and accidentally firing it at your kids or something

 

I agree with the gun safety on a gun range, and kind of with the locking up of guns, I don't believe it should be a LAW, but I do think it is STUPID to not lock up guns, meaning mine are locked up at all times. I do know where one is, and I do know where the bullets are just in case something does happen to my house. 

[Real_PhillBert]

Sadly education is the stem of all problems no matter the situation. Were someone more educated with common sense in general outcomes would likely be different and for the better.

 

common sense is does not directly correlate to education. 

 

However study after study has shown that the lower the median income of an area, the higher the crime rates are. It also follows, that the higher the rates of high school drop outs, the lower the rates of median income. Look at Detroit or Chicago.

[CalebTheEternal]

I'm gonna go grab a bag of popcorns

This is a good passing time while in class too. 

[Volbet]

Both sides  have facts that disprove each other, but I feel that my side is a lot more logical.

Facts can't disprove eachother. A fact on any given subject determines the state of that subject.

2+2 can't equal both 4 and 5.

If something is disproved then it is no longer a fact.

 

And in the case of gun control every claim can be fact checked by looking at statistics, for example.

Also, how do you use the word ´logic´? Becuase I have found that most people don't use it in the traditional aristotelian sense.

 

Lastly, logic can't be used to prove anything emperical. 

Logic is used to show the correlation between ideas and concepts.

[Aytex]

common sense is does not directly correlate to education. 

 

However study after study has shown that the lower the median income of an area, the higher the crime rates are. It also follows, that the higher the rates of high school drop outs, the lower the rates of median income. Look at Detroit or Chicago.

yes but poverty can't be solved easialy, probabley the main reason why these people need guns to rob/steal/kill people

[Fate]

I know it's kind of a different topic, but I think we should push for self driving cars instead of beating the dead horse that is gun control in America. Way more people are killed in vehicle accidents than by guns in America, yet nobody seems to care about that. All people seem to care about is that guns were designed to kill, when in reality, that doesn't matter at all.

[Real_PhillBert]

yes but poverty can't be solved easialy, probabley the main reason why these people need guns to rob/steal/kill people

 

People don't need guns to rob/steal/kill.

 

I agree that poverty is a tougher cookie to crack but I am in favor of solving root problems, not surface problems. 

[Mikjul]

Sadly education is the stem of all problems no matter the situation. Were someone more educated with common sense in general outcomes would likely be different and for the better.

First flaw.

Common sense =/= education.

[CalebTheEternal]

Facts can't disprove eachother. A fact on any given subject determines the state of that subject.

2+2 can't equal both 4 and 5.

If something is disproved then it is no longer a fact.

I didn't word this properly I don't think, what I mean is that both sides have positive facts that support their side. 

[ShadowCaptain]

I agree with the gun safety on a gun range, and kind of with the locking up of guns, I don't believe it should be a LAW, but I do think it is STUPID to not lock up guns, meaning mine are locked up at all times. I do know where one is, and I do know where the bullets are just in case something does happen to my house. 

 

It should be law I think to lock them up, and it DEFINITELY should be law to have AMMO locked up

 

but yeah the mentality in America has to change

 

"that school would have been safer if all the students had guns" - what the fuck kind of mentality is that... that people are safer with MORE deadly weapons around

 

You know what, I can walk around almost anywhere in the UK and never once think "I wish I had a gun" or "those guys might have a gun"

 

leave the guns for the armed police and military - and not all police needs guns, just leave that to SWAT, regular beat cops should not have to carry a gun just to keep people safe, but due to the proliferation of firearms they are forced to

 

There are just TOO many guns in the US, and it should not be a "right" - it should be a privileged for those that need it

[manikyath]

well... i'm belgian, and here seeing a gun on a cop is odd.

 

but i wont say i'm for a full ban on guns.

the saying "guns dont kill people, people kill people" is certainly not wrong, but it misses a key element.

 

in some parts of the USA its exceptionally easy for everyone to get the gun, as well as for the people that "may not be mentailly stabile enough" to handle one safely.

 

i have this idea of -any form of weapon, not just guns- to be readily available to those who can prove themselves by passing a mental screening.

for example, if you go for a gun license in belgium, no where trough the screening you can mention "weapon", but instead have to say "handgun" "rifle" "crossbow" or whataver you're getting your license for. if your intent is to buy it to aim it at things with a heartbeat, you're not gonna get one.

 

if your intent to buy one is for sports shooting, self defence, or just to feel safer. i'm all for you owning a gun.

[CalebTheEternal]

First flaw.

Common sense =/= education.

Well, when you're more educated you're more likely to use the common sense I believe. Also, most people don't think of, if I point this gun at someone when at a gun range (not on purpose), and don't pull the trigger it is fine, but it isn't. When I was younger, about 6-7, I would do the sideways turn to ask my dad something, but I didn't realize I was pointing that gun at his foot, which isn't deadly, but is still a concern. I have now outgrown that, since I am now 17, but the point is that when you're younger you don't think about those things, but not every time I go shooting, I make damn sure the gun stays down range and that if I'm not intending to shoot it at that moment the safety is on, finger off the trigger, and the gun is unloaded. 

[paprikman]

Gun is a tragedy chance multiplier.

[manikyath]

--

very strong points, theres just one thing us europeans might find hard to grasp at times:

 

in some places - like texas - it may take up to several hours for the police to respond to a call, just because the distances. if the man of the house (or woman) is intelligent and handy enough to operate a gun for self defence, i feel like they should have the right to.

[ShadowCaptain]

very strong points, theres just one thing us europeans might find hard to grasp at times:

 

in some places - like texas - it may take up to several hours for the police to respond to a call, just because the distances. if the man of the house (or woman) is intelligent and handy enough to operate a gun for self defence, i feel like they should have the right to.

 

As I said, in some circumstances then its fine, it should be a privileged for those in need

 

It should not be carried by every Tom Dick and Harry

[CalebTheEternal]

"that school would have been safer if all the students had guns" - what the fuck kind of mentality is that... that people are safer with MORE deadly weapons around

The STUDENTS should not have guns, but I believe two or three TRAINED, and I mean heavily trained, teachers should have guns, no one would know which teachers have the guns, and they would need to be locked in a drawer in their classroom or on their person at all times. 

 

 

leave the guns for the armed police and military - and not all police needs guns, just leave that to SWAT, regular beat cops should not have to carry a gun just to keep people safe, but due to the proliferation of firearms they are forced to

I strongly disagree, it takes a lot of time for police to respond to something when there is an armed person, but say there is a person with a legal gun, legally carrying it, and knows how to use it, that is immediate response, but no one ever thinks about that, they just think oh well the police should have it. Sometimes the first person there is the civilian, not the cop, and they save just as many lives. 

[Mikjul]

Academic success has nothing on common sense... Very different things in fact.

Well, when you're more educated you're more likely to use the common sense I believe. Also, most people don't think of, if I point this gun at someone when at a gun range (not on purpose), and don't pull the trigger it is fine, but it isn't. When I was younger, about 6-7, I would do the sideways turn to ask my dad something, but I didn't realize I was pointing that gun at his foot, which isn't deadly, but is still a concern. I have now outgrown that, since I am now 17, but the point is that when you're younger you don't think about those things, but not every time I go shooting, I make damn sure the gun stays down range and that if I'm not intending to shoot it at that moment the safety is on, finger off the trigger, and the gun is unloaded.

[ShadowCaptain]

The STUDENTS should not have guns, but I believe two or three TRAINED, and I mean heavily trained, teachers should have guns, no one would know which teachers have the guns, and they would need to be locked in a drawer in their classroom or on their person at all times. 

 

 

I strongly disagree, it takes a lot of time for police to respond to something when there is an armed person, but say there is a person with a legal gun, legally carrying it, and knows how to use it, that is immediate response, but no one ever thinks about that, they just think oh well the police should have it. Sometimes the first person there is the civilian, not the cop, and they save just as many lives. 

 

Perhaps schools could have some security personnel that keep the grounds safe, and confiscate knives and guns from students if found. They can carry a pistol to protect the students from attack

 

The second part is just a mentality I cannot understand, but its just different over here I guess, since we have not had a mass shooting in a long time its just not something we feel we have to prepare for

[Mooshi]

The debate for gun rights always devolves into stupidity and knuckle dragging. As someone who is moderate on the stance, here are the things the majority of people can agree upon:

 

*Guns are inanimate objects. Your computer case and a gun are equally as dangerous from a pure object standpoint when not acted upon.

 

*Not every gun owner is a bad person and are responsible.

 

*While the right to bare arms is in the constitution, it doesn't equate to everyone is mentally capable of this responsibility.

 

*Guns are a pussy way to fight if it's used for retaliation on a person you don't like.

 

*Getting rid of guns doesn't make crime magically cease. Many mundane objects can be used as a weapon and a criminal will always have methods to obtain goods that are banned.

 

Hysteria is a poor method to handle gun violence because it only breeds more ignorance. People need to be educated and that's why we have so much conflict. If people had training on guns, they would be educated and be able to handle themselves in case of a situation. It's sad when a gun-free zone campus becomes an all you can eat slaughter buffet and it's becoming more common recently. I'm not advocating all students should be forced to carry a firearm to feel safe because that honestly is a bleak existence. No student should have to worry going to school might be their last day on Earth.

 

Gun-free zones are easy prey to criminals and at the bare minimum I'd like to see the faculty trained in firearms in case a gunman tries something, there wouldn't be as many casualties. 

 

tl;dr guns aren't the issue. lack of education and crazies with access to firearms is.

[manikyath]

As I said, in some circumstances then its fine, it should be a privileged for those in need

 

It should not be carried by every Tom Dick and Harry

indeed, the fact an american can walk into a mom&pop shop on the corner of the street, and walk out with a loaded gun has kinda been worrying to me.

 

in the end, the numbers dont lie, the USA has a MASSIVELY greater number of incidents including firearms than other, similarly sized do.

and while theres many other weapons available to people, a firearm may be one of the most dangerous ones for everyone to have. if its REALLY for self defence, why dont they freely distribute non-lethal weapons (debatable) like pepperspray and tazers?

[CalebTheEternal]

This is just a mentality I cannot understand

Well I can understand why, you live in England and from my understanding they have strict gun laws, so you didn't grow up around them. 

[ShadowCaptain]

indeed, the fact an american can walk into a mom&pop shop on the corner of the street, and walk out with a loaded gun has kinda been worrying to me.

 

in the end, the numbers dont lie, the USA has a MASSIVELY greater number of incidents including firearms than other, similarly sized do.

and while theres many other weapons available to people, a firearm may be one of the most dangerous ones for everyone to have. if its REALLY for self defence, why dont they freely distribute non-lethal weapons (debatable) like pepperspray and tazers?

 

They are seen as "essential" and that is just something that needs to change

[manikyath]

Well I can understand why, you live in England and from my understanding they have strict gun laws, so you didn't grow up around them. 

well... on this side of the globe opensource administrators dont need to have a gun on their belt to feel safe either.

 

it may be a vicious circle of firearms in the USA.

[as96]

I'm joining in the argument since well... I'm bored at the moment, now I'm not saying that you should ban guns in the US since considering how common they are most of the people will refuse to give them up anyway.

But you have to admit that how guns are handled now it's probably not the right way if you consider that you have a mass shooting almost once a year.

[CalebTheEternal]

indeed, the fact an american can walk into a mom&pop shop on the corner of the street, and walk out with a loaded gun has kinda been worrying to me.

 

in the end, the numbers dont lie, the USA has a MASSIVELY greater number of incidents including firearms than other, similarly sized do.

and while theres many other weapons available to people, a firearm may be one of the most dangerous ones for everyone to have. if its REALLY for self defence, why dont they freely distribute non-lethal weapons (debatable) like pepperspray and tazers?

Well the thing is, the bad guys already have the guns, we are trying to take them off of the streets but we can NEVER get all of them, so when they have one and we don't a taser can't do much. Also, I might be wrong on this one, but can't the taser make your muscles tense up and make the gun discharge?