Thoughts on gun control?

[ShadowCaptain]

To cast off a tyrannical government, just like back then

 

 

This is still just an INSANE reason

[Real_PhillBert]

This is still just an INSANE reason

 

Personally, I don't think that having the ability to stand up to an oppressor is an insane reason. 

[ShadowCaptain]

Personally, I don't think that having the ability to stand up to an oppressor is an insane reason. 

 

No other country feels the need to do this, except america and its paranoia of the government

 

http://www.houstonpress.com/news/constitutional-right-to-bear-arms-found-in-only-three-nations-rest-of-world-smothered-in-tyranny-apparently-6749663

 

"CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS FOUND IN ONLY THREE NATIONS -- REST OF WORLD SMOTHERED IN TYRANNY, APPARENTLY"

[Real_PhillBert]

No other country feels the need to do this, except america and its paranoia of the government

 

A few countries do have similar rights actually, admittedly not many. But dont you think that could be because the government is making the rules? Why would the government want to give the people the power to cast them off? 

[ShadowCaptain]

A few countries do have similar rights actually, admittedly not many. But dont you think that could be because the government is making the rules? Why would the government want to give the people the power to cast them off? 

 

lot of reasons really (gotta drive home brb)

[Real_PhillBert]

lot of reasons really (gotta drive home brb)

 

It's cool, I have a meeting for an hour or so with a vendor. I'll hit you back later. 

[Kobathor]

lot of reasons really (gotta drive home brb)

Dude, you are so liberal. Please do not visit America, you will be scared of all the freedom.

 

EDIT- I respect your opinion, but seriously, how can you be so against a fundamental thing?

 

"people should not have the right to carry a deadly weapon" - Implying every person is a murderous maniac, sure. But, people are not all murderous maniacs, in fact if you look at how many people with concealed carry licenses commit murder every year, you'd be very sickened by such a low number contradicting your statement.

 

"The constitution should change" - Sure, we should change the things that make us such a great country. Where do you even live??

 

And, no, the citizens of the US are not so afraid of the government that we NEED guns to protect ourselves. I own guns, do I intend to go shoot up a school? I've never had the thought. Do I think I'm gonna go shoot up a police station if they make changes to the laws I don't like? No, I wouldn't.

 

The reason we have the right to bear arms is to fight off a tyrannical government, but that doesn't mean it's the reason we buy guns these days. They're super fun, have you every tried shooting before?

 

"Guns for self protection is insane" - Sure, say that when you're caught up in a bank robbery, or when you get mugged by a guy with a .357. You'll want a gun then. Do you think you can reason with people? It's like life insurance; you hope you'll never have to use it, but if that time comes, you're glad you have it.

 

I can tell you're afraid of guns. That's okay, some people can't handle the awesome power of gunpowder pushing a metal object. I can, and it's super fun. Shooting clay pigeons out of the air w/ a 12 gauge is so fun, and I love it.

 

You should watch Demolition Ranch on YouTube. I bet you'd be scared silly by how much fun they have there.

[ManWithBeard1990]

Guns don't kill people, but they make it way too easy for the people who do. In my opinion having ranged weapons less easily available will make committing crimes less attractive.

 

I got threatened with a knife once. It was at a crossroads on my bicycle, 50 meters from where I lived at the time (but he doesn't know that). He wanted 20 euros off me, that's all he asked for. All he valued my life at, roughly, with that rusty potato knife held pointed at my throat. I bargained down to 5 and he was alright with it. Now, honestly, would a gun have helped me in this situation? Not in the slightest and if regulations were as loose here as they are in the States, the person who'd most likely have had one in this scenario would have been him, not me. 

 

Leave the weapons to law enforcement. If push comes to shove, the attacker will always have the element of surprise and, therefore, the upper hand and will prevent you from drawing a weapon. And for burglaries a decent, modern alarm system will do a far better job as a deterrent. You don't need a gun. 

[Volbet]

I didn't word this properly I don't think, what I mean is that both sides have positive facts that support their side. 

Then, if those facts point to the same problem, for example, a claim that more private gun ownership lowers or raises the crime rate, then one of the sides must be wrong.

You basically just reworded what you said earlier.

 

And I'm still intersted in answers to my questions.

Would you change your mind if your were presented with ample evidence that was contrary to your current position? 

If yes, why would you write that you would not be convinced? If no, why would you create a discussion in the first place?

Lastly, when you state that your side is the more logical one in what sense do you use the word ´logical´? 

And how do you use logic to make an empirical claim?

[Th3 Mans1ay3r]

I like the 2nd amendment.

[Kobathor]

Guns don't kill people, but they make it way too easy for the people who do. In my opinion having ranged weapons less easily available will make committing crimes less attractive.

 

I got threatened with a knife once. It was at a crossroads on my bicycle, 50 meters from where I lived at the time (but he doesn't know that). He wanted 20 euros off me, that's all he asked for. All he valued my life at, roughly, with that rusty potato knife held pointed at my throat. I bargained down to 5 and he was alright with it. Now, honestly, would a gun have helped me in this situation? Not in the slightest and if regulations were as loose here as they are in the States, the person who'd most likely have had one in this scenario would have been him, not me. 

 

Leave the weapons to law enforcement. If push comes to shove, the attacker will always have the element of surprise and, therefore, the upper hand and will prevent you from drawing a weapon. And for burglaries a decent, modern alarm system will do a far better job as a deterrent. You don't need a gun. 

Have fun in your police state.

 

It's easy to bypass a modern security system, a gun is the most effective deterrent. Would you like to get shot? I sure wouldn't.

Whereas with a security system you pay upwards of $60 a month for something that can fail. How much is a gun? A glock 17 in most places is around $400, and you can use it for more than protection. I have fun shooting, what about you?

 

Now, I could still get a security system (it's always a good idea,) but if somebody breaks in without the system going off, what do I do? Call the police and wait until the robber is already gone with all my stuff and the police just show up and file a report? That doesn't sound effective.

 

Nah, I'd take out my $400 pistol and aim it at his face. He would immediately run, or he'd face being incapacitated. That doesn't sound fun. I wouldn't kill the guy, since that's just horrible in general, but if he's stealing my stuff what am I supposed to do? Let him get away?

[Thunderpup]

Before I go into my thoughts on the subject i'll give a little info on my self.

I've been a gun owner since I was 2 weeks old, grandfather gave me a shot gun, and I took possession of that shotgun in my mid twenties.

I have Multiple firearms, a number I wont list, ranging from WW2 antiques to modern sporting rifles.

 

I have a collectors license from the ATF which enables me to act just as a dealer would when purchasing certain antique firearms (nothing automatic though) but I cannot use it to actually deal in firearms and I am bound by the same record keeping requirements.

Lastly I am employed as a background investigator that does federally regulated security clearance checks.  These are way more detailed than any firearms background performed in our country, or in Europe as far as I can tell.

 

 

I think the "discussion" in this country about gun control is almost hopeless as there is too much politics and misinformation on both sides. Those often advocating for more gun control are generally ignorant regarding current laws for firearms and purchases; as well as crime rates.  This is largely due to lying politicians and a complicit media.

 

Those against gun control often rarely offer viable solutions or compromises; they've become the group of "no", and that is running a bit thin.

 

Do I think we need more gun control?

No, at least not the sort that often makes the news cycle. 

 

Do I think people should be required to lock up their firearms?

No, I don't think it should be REQUIRED, however it should be highly encouraged. People living in rural areas who often can leave their front door unlocked generally don't need a gun safe, and are fine with a simple cabinet.  Shootings in these parts of the country, even though firearms are very common, are actually quite low compared to urban areas.

I personally own a safe and that's where most of my firearms are located; its a good hedge against theft plus allows me some modicum of moisture control.

 

Should ranges require safety training before people use their facility?

Yes I do actually.  I've left a few ranges because I did not feel comfortable with some of the idiots in neighboring lanes.  One of the newer places that opened up not only has you go through a quick safety class, but they also have range officers in each bay to monitor such behavior.  It's a bit annoying at times but I agree with the practice.

 

 

I think better mental health reporting, requiring law enforcement to notify the FBI within 3 business days of felony arrests/charges (there is no time frame for when they need to report currently), and require suicide attempts to be reported to applicable agencies would go a long way.

 

Couple that with better education on firearms in schools, to the mystique around them, and increased penalties for people who possess an illegal firearm, as well as those who straw purchase would help reduce the problems greatly. 

 

There are others but I am trying to avoid my usual wall of text.

 

"that school would have been safer if all the students had guns" - what the fuck kind of mentality is that... that people are safer with MORE deadly weapons around

 

 

 

Mass shootings occur primarily where people aren't armed.  As far as there being more guns I personally believe if they wont let me bring my own then they are required to provide adequate security.  Yet when folks mention adding more security the same "more guns aren't needed" argument pops up.

 

Sure, but that context is not relevant. Are US citizens THAT afraid of their government? there is no way the US could have rulers like that, it will just start a war with Europe

 

US Allies wont sit back as the US Government turn into tyrannical murderous dictators. the US pretends its all alone sometimes

 

 

I think the prospect of the US never being able to have rulers like that is a bit short sighted. 

Also I doubt Europe would be as keen to intervene as you believe.  For starters many EU nations have scaled back their military to a point to where such a task isn't even possible.  Also how eager was Europe to act to counter Russia in their push into the Ukraine recently?

 

I believe the UK would try to rally and intervene, depending on the situation, but the rest of Europe I don't see that happening with.
 

[xgn]

 

Leave the weapons to law enforcement. If push comes to shove, the attacker will always have the element of surprise and, therefore, the upper hand and will prevent you from drawing a weapon. And for burglaries a decent, modern alarm system will do a far better job as a deterrent. You don't need a gun. 

 

 

Okay the problem with that statement is the cops will not always be there for you when you need it. The longer it takes for the cops to arrive the more damage can be done.

Also what is goverment decide to round you up and arrest you for no reason or a triffle. Forexample pussy riot got arrested because putin didn't like the song.

Or the Schutzstaffel during ww2 arresting anyone who didnt commit to nazi germany. Law enforcement can commit crimes and they have on multiplie occasions.

[cjmillsnun]

Have fun in your police state.

 

The irony of a US citizen saying this.  May I remind you of what happened with the NSA spying on its own people.  Also the Patriot Act, the continued illegal imprisonment without trial of people in Gitmo.

 

You are nowhere near as free as you think you are, neither, sadly, are we in the UK...  And yes I do know what freedom means.

 

As far as gun control goes.

 

Yes of course there should be some form of gun control.  

 

Does that mean all guns should be banned?

 

No.  What it does mean is that guns should be regulated on a federal basis as opposed to a state by state basis.  Much better and more consistent background checking should be put into place to try and prevent guns being purchased by those who have no business having guns.  

 

Will this happen?  No

 

Why?  It's far too late for that now.  There are already far too many guns in circulation.

 

Do I believe that some kind of armed security should exist at schools.  Perhaps, however then then put themselves, and possibly more children at greater risk unless they can get a clear shot and the element of surprise.

 

Do I think the second amendment was a good idea?  At the time, yes.  However its interpretation in modern times is perhaps an issue.

[Mikjul]

True.

That's a pretty harsh generalization.

[ShadowCaptain]

Dude, you are so liberal. Please do not visit America, you will be scared of all the freedom.

 

I have been to america, and I am not against fun, I would happily purchase guns for recreational use, i follow tons of firearms sites on youtube, jerry miculek, hickok45 etc I do airsoft in the UK etc i am a big firearms fan

 

and yes I have tried shooting 

 

I just dont see why tons of civilians need working firearms, keep them locked at the range if you want to shoot them for fun, or safe in a vault at home,

 

"scared of all the freedom" what? because America is the only free country in the world hahahaha we are free here too you know!!!

[Guest Kloaked]

You are nowhere near as free as you think you are, neither, sadly, are we in the UK...  And yes I do know what freedom means.

 

Sorry, but if you're referring to the USA, we are the most free country in the world.

[Kobathor]

I have been to america, and I am not against fun, I would happily purchase guns for recreational use, i follow tons of firearms sites on youtube, jerry miculek, hickok45 etc I do airsoft in the UK etc i am a big firearms fan

 

and yes I have tried shooting 

 

I just dont see why tons of civilians need working firearms, keep them locked at the range if you want to shoot them for fun, or safe in a vault at home,

 

"scared of all the freedom" what? because America is the only free country in the world hahahaha we are free here too you know!!!

obviously not as free, with needing a license for a shotgun.

[Yuval]

If you won't have guns you'd have knives, if not that stones. All kill equally.

 

What i do think is that all ex - (combat) military personal should be allowed to carry a firearm, as they went through extensive training and have a law abiding ideology by most, in my eyes the safest group to give guns to. The rest should go through psych evaluations, checked for a criminal record, and only permitted a firearm with a unique purpose behind it, like a hunting rifle, or a sidearm, not a assault rifle or marksman rifle. To all of you who fool yourselves that guns are the issue even if you have a group of armed people one guy with a knife can cause serious damage before being put down.

[JAKEBAB]

I think people need to realize guns aren't the only things that kill people and banning guns isn't going to stop crime.

 

Last week a 15yr old killed a unarmed police officer with an illegal gun.

 

Yesterday a guy stabbed someone in the neck resulting in death with a broken beer bottle because the guy was talking to loud to his partially deff father.

 

A year ago a guy killed his family and himself resulting in 5 people all up with a legal gun.

 

As a result to the gun ban in the late 90's here in Aus we have a huge problem with gun smuggling, we also have a lot of stabbings which many people just forget about in there gun control arguments.

 

What we should be doing is not banning guns rather educating people on guns and gun safety, have an extensive psych assessments for anyone who wants a firearm but not limit there choices on the specific firearm (within reason obviously), in return i see a safer country and economy benefits.

 

Just a funny video.

 

 

Edit: also like to add Australia's gun laws are so strict you need a firearm license just to own a bb gun, airsoft or paintball gun yet a 15yr old got his hands on a lethal firearm, i think this speaks for it's self. 

[thekeemo]

After seeing all the insane Americans

 

[ShadowCaptain]

obviously not as free, with needing a license for a shotgun.

 

We need a licence for TV, but its not a licence, there is no test, its just  a £50 piece of paper to say you can own a shotgun and have been through police background checks

 

at least we can drink at 18, so much for your freedom

 

also im pretty sure you need a Permit in the US.. or can i Just walk into the shop and walk straight out without any paperwork, i know it might not be all, but many states require permits or licences

[Kobathor]

We need a licence for TV, but its not a licence, there is no test, its just  a £50 piece of paper to say you can own a shotgun and have been through police background checks

 

at least we can drink at 18, so much for your freedom

 

also im pretty sure you need a Permit in the US.. or can i Just walk into the shop and walk straight out without any paperwork, i know it might not be all, but many states require permits or licences

 

You can basically just walk in and buy a gun (AFTER background checks, and you have to be 21 or older to buy most guns.)

 

I wish we had 18 drinking like we used to, the teens here are drinking at 15 anyway..

 

 

 

What we should be doing is not banning guns rather educating people on guns and gun safety, have an extensive psych assessments for anyone who wants a firearm but not limit there choices on the specific firearm (within reason obviously), in return i see a safer country and economy benefits.

 

I totally agree. I'm still part of the BSA, and even though they're putting way more rules on guns (liberal loony is BSA president right now,) we still get to shoot. My troop has a shooting campout every year- unlimited .22 (the highest caliber for BSA, gg) and 20/12 gauge shooting from 10 to 5:30. We have a class every year on gun safety, if you do not attend class, you cannot shoot. The class is 4-5 weeks long and we teach extensive gun safety (only NRA certified teachers allowed.)

 

Campout going for 10 or so years strong. How many injuries? 0.

[Kobathor]

After seeing all the insane Americans

 

Well, we have the cheapest computer parts.. I'd be jealous of us.

Also cheap gas (it's $2/gal here, two years ago was $3.50 or so)

 

Also.. guns.

 

Out internet sucks though (I get 100 down/ 60 up for like $80 a month.)

[ShadowCaptain]

You can basically just walk in and buy a gun (AFTER background checks, and you have to be 21 or older to buy most guns.)

 

I wish we had 18 drinking like we used to, the teens here are drinking at 15 anyway..

 

We can also cross the street without being arrested, thats quite nice, break our leg and not have to sell our children, and oh yeah, not have mass shootings

 

(ok im being a dick) but yeah I do think the US has a gun problem, personally I love the US, I would love to move there, but I just think there are things they can do better as can any country