Thoughts on gun control?

[AlwaysFSX]

common sense is does not directly correlate to education. 

 

However study after study has shown that the lower the median income of an area, the higher the crime rates are. It also follows, that the higher the rates of high school drop outs, the lower the rates of median income. Look at Detroit or Chicago.

First flaw.

Common sense =/= education.

Education is the process of learning something, common sense is "good sense and sound judgment in practical matters" which comes through an educating experience. Were people not so fucking dumb we wouldn't have problems in guns.

[ShadowCaptain]

Well I can understand why, you live in England and from my understanding they have strict gun laws, so you didn't grow up around them. 

 

Absolutely, so when we look to the US, it seems crazy you can buy a handgun with your milk and bread from the corner shop

 

If the US never had this from the start, it would not have escalated into the problems being faced today, because they have allowed SO many firearms to be purchased its going to be very hard to get rid of them quickly

 

We have strict gun laws, though almost anybody here can get a shotgun licence for £50 with almost no checks... but, nobody does.. because nobody needs  or wants to carry a gun here

 

Its just a different culture, we do not live in fear of our families being attacked, we do not feel like we have to carry a deadly weapon just to walk down the street

 

America has created an environment where everyone you meet could be carrying a gun, where there are more guns than people living in the country, and that is a scary as fuck thought 

 

Our police dont even carry guns, only specialist firearms units, because its unlikely here that a perp will be carrying a gun

[CalebTheEternal]

I'm joining in the argument since well... I'm bored at the moment, now I'm not saying that you should ban guns in the US since considering how common they are most of the people will refuse to give them up anyway.

But you have to admit that how guns are handled now it's probably not the right way if you consider that you have a mass shooting almost once a year.

This is why I believe it is stupid to not lock up your guns, but since I believe it is more important for me to protect my family, I will keep one out of the safe when I get older, and if someone breaks into my house they will regret every second of it, it's sad to say, but I feel I family is one of the most important things in life. 

[CalebTheEternal]

Absolutely, so when we look to the US, it seems crazy you can buy a handgun with your milk and bread from the corner shop

I've never heard of this happening, nor have ever seen this happening. To buy a gun you MUST get a federal background check. 

[manikyath]

Well the thing is, the bad guys already have the guns, we are trying to take them off of the streets but we can NEVER get all of them, so when they have one and we don't a taser can't do much. Also, I might be wrong on this one, but can't the taser make your muscles tense up and make the gun discharge? 

have you seen the effect of pepperballs?

he can have all the guns in his hands he wants, if he cant open his eyes anymore he'll not have much good on them.

[Mikjul]

Experinces mostly shape common sense not pure education.

Education is the process of learning something, common sense is "good sense and sound judgment in practical matters" which comes through an educating experience. Were people not so fucking dumb we wouldn't have problems in guns.

A soldier is taught what to do.

Only in battle does he learn what works and what does not.

Apply to anything.

Sime things link to others such as pain.. Which automatically makes some of us more careful.

[AlwaysFSX]

Experinces mostly shape common sense not pure education.

A soldier is taught what to do.

Only in battle does he learn what works and what does not.

Apply to anything.

Sime things link to others such as pain.. Which automatically makes some of us more careful.

 

You've missed the point, entirely.

[Dredgy]

in some places - like texas - it may take up to several hours for the police to respond to a call, just because the distances. if the man of the house (or woman) is intelligent and handy enough to operate a gun for self defence, i feel like they should have the right to.

 

Live in Australia. We make Texas look like New York. Gun control works here. You can buy rifles to hunt and if you're on a farm/play sport. 

 

 

My general views:

 

Guns as Self Defence

Is bullcrap. What kind of life do you live where people are jumping through windows trying to kill you. People just want to steal your stuff. Your stuff is not worth killing or injuring someone else over.

 

Criminals will Always Get Guns

Disproven here and in many other countries with gun control. You make something illegal (and as hard to smuggle as a gun) prices skyrocket. Semi automatic weapons that can be bought in the US for less than $1k are up to $50k here. More than enough to stop your randoms with mental health issues from going on a killing spree. Won't stop the organized criminals, but those people aren't going around shooting innocent people en masse. 

 

 

The second point is the reason I'm still alive today. If I could have afforded a hand gun 4 years ago, I would be dead (and I was on good money). Instead I tried suicide by overdose and I am alive to stay up late arguing on the internet with you. 

 

 

Here is a video by a comedian I'm sure you've seen, which articulates my thoughts a little better and much more humorously.

[Mikjul]

You've missed the point, entirely.

This entire thing goes far further than purly common sense, a lot of it is down to upbringing and how a person is shaped by their life experiences. Not just guns anything in general, from how they handle stressful situations, to how they parent.

[ShadowCaptain]

I've never heard of this happening, nor have ever seen this happening. To buy a gun you MUST get a federal background check. 

 

It was a bit of hyperbole, based on wallmart selling firearms, and the fact they are on street corners and stuff

[Real_PhillBert]

Absolutely, so when we look to the US, it seems crazy you can buy a handgun with your milk and bread from the corner shop

 

If the US never had this from the start, it would not have escalated into the problems being faced today, because they have allowed SO many firearms to be purchased its going to be very hard to get rid of them quickly

 

We have strict gun laws, though almost anybody here can get a shotgun licence for £50 with almost no checks... but, nobody does.. because nobody needs  or wants to carry a gun here

 

Its just a different culture, we do not live in fear of our families being attacked, we do not feel like we have to carry a deadly weapon just to walk down the street

 

America has created an environment where everyone you meet could be carrying a gun, where there are more guns than people living in the country, and that is a scary as fuck thought 

 

Our police dont even carry guns, only specialist firearms units, because its unlikely here that a perp will be carrying a gun

 

For whatever it's worth, I think the number of Americans who carry guns is hugely overplayed in the media. 

 

Out of the ~330 million people in the US there are ~11 million concealed weapon permits; so about 3%. But the huge majority of concealed weapon permit holders do not regularly carry, so I would guess you are really talking about 1% at the absolute highest.

 

The idea of Americans living in fear of being robbed and killed seems to be only brought up by Europeans, I have never met an American who shared the sentiment. 

 

Food for thought

[AlwaysFSX]

This entire thing goes far further than purly common sense, a lot of it is down to upbringing and how a person is shaped by their life experiences. Not just guns anything in general, from how they handle stressful situations, to how they parent.

Upbringing has the biggest impact on the outcome of the person. If a dumb person raises someone, chances are they'll turn out dumb. The only reason we're having that kind of problem is with the mob mentality of stupidity throughout society with people throwing away values of intelligence in any field or just not being a fuckup in life.

[ShadowCaptain]

For whatever it's worth, I think the number of Americans who carry guns is hugely overplayed in the media. 

 

Out of the ~330 million people in the US there are ~11 million concealed weapon permits; so about 3%. But the huge majority of concealed weapon permit holders do not regularly carry, so I would guess you are really talking about 1% at the absolute highest.

 

The idea of Americans living in fear of being robbed and killed seems to be only brought up by Europeans, I have never met an American who shared the sentiment. 

 

Food for thought

 

What about people carrying without a permit, or those that keep one stored at home under the bed or whatever.

 

 

I KNOW the gun violence in the US is blown out of proportion, even though its a lot its only like 1.3% of all death in the country per year which is pretty small

 

but I still thing guns are too easy to get, and there are too many people with them who do not need them, these can easily fall into the wrong hands.

[xgn]

I dont like it my country has been "high req" gun control for as long as i have been around but now all cops is armed under false premises.

Which i find threatening and hope we wont turn into shoot first ask questions later as we have seen a couple of times in US.

The only thing they achieve is provoking more hardcore violence instead of stabbing there will be bombing or worse.

[AlwaysFSX]

What about people carrying without a permit, or those that keep one stored at home under the bed or whatever.

 

 

I KNOW the gun violence in the US is blown out of proportion, even though its a lot its only like 1.3% of all death in the country per year which is pretty small

 

but I still thing guns are too easy to get, and there are too many people with them who do not need them, these can easily fall into the wrong hands.

With all the laws we have in place on trafficking and legal acquirement you'd think it'd be harder..  :rolleyes:

[Real_PhillBert]

What about people carrying without a permit, or those that keep one stored at home under the bed or whatever.

 

 

I KNOW the gun violence in the US is blown out of proportion, even though its a lot its only like 1.3% of all death in the country per year which is pretty small

 

but I still thing guns are too easy to get, and there are too many people with them who do not need them, these can easily fall into the wrong hands.

 

This is where it get really tricky though because we do have guns listed as a right. I like to think of it in this way, Would you be OK with these restrictions being placed on your right to vote? If not, then you should go back to the drawing board. This is why I am firmly in the camp of solving the root problem (education and poverty) instead of the surface (guns under the bed) problem. 

[ShadowCaptain]

This is where it get really tricky though because we do have guns listed as a right. I like to think of it in this way, Would you be OK with these restrictions being placed on your right to vote? If not, then you should go back to the drawing board. This is why I am firmly in the camp of solving the root problem (education and poverty) instead of the surface (guns under the bed) problem. 

People should not have the right to carry a deadly weapon, the constitution should change, Americans are stuck in their ways but complain that things never change, they never will if you let yourself get ruled by things from the past

[Real_PhillBert]

People should not have the right to carry a deadly weapon, the constitution should change, Americans are stuck in their ways but complain that things never change, they never will if you let yourself get ruled by things from the past

 

The thing with the second amendment, is that you have to remember the context; this was a group of people who had just violently revolted from an unjust ruler. Therefore they wanted to secure the peoples capability to perform this task again if it would ever be necessary. Which, in my humble opinion, was very wise of them. 

 

I can see that we might have to agree to disagree on this one. You're one of the people on here I respect beyond a dude on the internet, our disagreement on this doesn't change that.

[ShadowCaptain]

The thing with the second amendment, is that you have to remember the context; this was a group of people who had just violently revolted from an unjust ruler. Therefore they wanted to secure the peoples capability to perform this task again if it would ever be necessary. Which, in my humble opinion, was very wise of them. 

 

I can see that we might have to agree to disagree on this one. You're one of the people on here I respect beyond a dude on the internet, our disagreement on this doesn't change that.

 

Sure, but that context is not relevant. Are US citizens THAT afraid of their government? there is no way the US could have rulers like that, it will just start a war with Europe

 

US Allies wont sit back as the US Government turn into tyrannical murderous dictators. the US pretends its all alone sometimes

 

Its ok none of these discussions should be taken personally

[Real_PhillBert]

Sure, but that context is not relevant. Are US citizens THAT afraid of their government? there is no way the US could have rulers like that, it will just start a war with Europe

 

US Allies wont sit back as the US Government turn into tyrannical murderous dictators. the US pretends its all alone sometimes

 

Its ok none of these discussions should be taken personally

 

I would argue that governments becoming corrupted is never irreverent. I'm not sure what you mean by starting a war with Europe, tyrannical governments almost always commit their worst crimes against their own people.

[ShadowCaptain]

I would argue that governments becoming corrupted is never irreverent. I'm not sure what you mean by starting a war with Europe, tyrannical governments almost always commit their worst crimes against their own people.

 

What I am saying is, if the US had a government like that, we would intervene

[Real_PhillBert]

What I am saying is, if the US had a government like that, we would intervene

 

Also remember the US revolution was not about murdering people, but about taxes. 

[Guest Kloaked]

Americans have issues with guns... More mentally than anything.

Might be why they suck in a fist fight outside of pro boxing etc.

 

That's a pretty harsh generalization.

[ShadowCaptain]

Also remember the US revolution was not about murdering people, but about taxes. 

 

Then why do they needs guns I doubt there will be another civil war, its not like the past, they have tanks and jet planes now

[Real_PhillBert]

Then why do they needs guns I doubt there will be another civil war, its not like the past, they have tanks and jet planes now

 

To cast off a tyrannical government, just like back then

 

Civil war is a separate issue. However the tanks and jets comment assumes that those serving would be willing to fire on their own citizens, which I'm not so sure of. 

 

*For the record, I am not supporting a violent revolution. I am merely explaining the reasoning behind the right of the people to bare arms*