Rescue Greece through Indiegogo Crowdfunding

[.spider.]

First of all, if Greece falls the rest will likely fall as well: Albania, the Republic of Macedonia, even Italy and Spain might fall.

Why Albania and Macedonia?

[kuddlesworth9419]

I don't think you all realize but Greece doesn't want to be saved. It wants out of the EU so it can actually have a chance. It has no chance of being saved in the long term if it keeps getting loans that it has to pay back X3 the original amount. It's why Africa will always be a shithole (most parts) because all the countries that make up africa owe the rest of the west so much cash. As usual it's the west's fault why this is an issue. I think the technical term is they want to default.

[Theo]

Well i don't see the issue tbh.

The gov lended money they could never pay back, and when they realized they made a mistake it was already too late and they fell into a vicious circle.

Because if they tried to solve their unsolveable problem they created, it just became worse.

I don't see the problem, the gov looks clear to me the one to blame because they have, or had, the power to don't make it a problem in the first place by just not lending the money at all.

At least give me sources of the "other side" because i can't find them.

Its a lot more than that, the measures that the creditors imposed is what further crippled the economy, you cant expect to cut spending, pensions. salaries and all and expect to grow the economy.

If their plan was to help the greek economy grow and not to guarantee the fastest return of their investment then the whole situation would be different

[Notional]

i mean pretty much anything beats what the eu is offering them. they have had 5 years of austerity and nothing has changed only got worse or stayed the same. and what there being offered is money for more austerity. 

 

You must be joking? Their so called "austerity" are mere peanuts compared to the Greeks extreme over spending. The fact of the matter is that the Greeks spend more money than they earn on a national scale. They need to work more (as in efficiency, not just more hours), they need to get much less from the government, and they need to move a large part of their working force from the public to the private sector. It really is not that difficult to understand.

 

And yes they owe more now, because they borrow more. That's how loans and interest works.

 

First of all, if Greece falls the rest will likely fall as well: Albania, the Republic of Macedonia, even Italy and Spain might fall. The first 2 countries are neighbouring countries which aren't using the Euro but don't have strong enough economies. Greece "falling" might be the beginning of the end and making them sort out their political situation won't help the other countries (which exist) that have problems. Fun fact: Greece has more debt now, a few years later than when it started getting "support" from the European Union and the IMF.

 

That is the scenario a lot of people fear. But Ireland for instance did the necessary austerity, and is now on the right track. If Greece as the most rotten part of Europe's economy, is cut, it might be beneficial for the other southern countries. If not a wake up call, that will give the politicians the necessary backup in the people to actually introduce these austerities. The Greek people are obviously still completely delusional about realities. Nothing the rest of us can do about that. If the Greek's refuse to take responsibilities, then they have to suffer the consequences alone.

[spartaman64]

Pfff I'm not giving my money to people who put themselves in the hole

its not the people's fault its the prime minister's

[Dimi3os]

That simply is not true. Most of the loans came from euro countries, to fix Greece's economy, and stabilize/strengthen the Euro. You don't give other people money without terms or it is just money out the window. Greece is in serious need of reformation. The Greek people are not adult enough to take responsibility, neither are their politicians, so the other EU countries are forced to, well force Greece to do so. That is the strings that comes with the loans. Not high interests to make money.

Do you remember the hyperinflation that happened during the 1920s in especially Germany? Do you also remember that because the allied countries had put up such strict measures after world war 1 Germany couldn't keep care of themselves anymore and the above happened, also world war 2 can be seen as a consequence of this. In the end we have been waiting on "our money" for decades because we had to find out the hard way that putting the people under extreme stress so that they could pay "their debt" didn't work out.

[Notional]

its not the people's fault its the prime minister's

 

Elected by the people. No the situation in Greece is 100% the fault of the Greeks themselves.

[spartaman64]

You must be joking? Their so called "austerity" are mere peanuts compared to the Greeks extreme over spending. The fact of the matter is that the Greeks spend more money than they earn on a national scale. They need to work more (as in efficiency, not just more hours), they need to get much less from the government, and they need to move a large part of their working force from the public to the private sector. It really is not that difficult to understand.

 

And yes they owe more now, because they borrow more. That's how loans and interest works.

 

 

That is the scenario a lot of people fear. But Ireland for instance did the necessary austerity, and is now on the right track. If Greece as the most rotten part of Europe's economy, is cut, it might be beneficial for the other southern countries. If not a wake up call, that will give the politicians the necessary backup in the people to actually introduce these austerities. The Greek people are obviously still completely delusional about realities. Nothing the rest of us can do about that. If the Greek's refuse to take responsibilities, then they have to suffer the consequences alone.

so you are throwing 11 million people to the wolves because of the action of one person

[spartaman64]

Elected by the people. No the situation in Greece is 100% the fault of the Greeks themselves.

of course he didnt say oh im going to destroy the economy during his campaign so how is it the greek's fault if he lied to them. the greek people are the victims here its like people blaming rape victims saying oh you shouldnt have worn a dress that shows your ankles so its all your fault

[Notional]

Do you remember the hyperinflation that happened during the 1920s in especially Germany? Do you also remember that because the allied countries had put up such strict measures after world war 1 Germany couldn't keep care of themselves anymore and the above happened, also world war 2 can be seen as a consequence of this. In the end we have been waiting on "our money" for decades because we had to find out the hard way that putting the people under extreme stress so that they could pay "their debt" didn't work out.

 

Indeed, WWII was very much the consequence of the allies treatment of Germany after WWI. But that was not the fault of the German people. Greece is not where they are because of war or being defeated in wars. It is the result of extremely incompetent governance and the Greek people taking no responsibility and sucking the state dry of money at every turn they could.

 

When Greece exits the Euro, their Drachmar will hyper inflate for a short period. But let's see what Russia will do.

[Notional]

so you are throwing 11 million people to the wolves because of the action of one person

 

Greece is not a dictatorship. Like I said, the problems of Greece is the fault of the people.

[Dimi3os]

Why Albania and Macedonia?

Well, I was having a talk on this topic with a couple of friends yesterday, including greeks, an Albanian fellow and a Macedonian fellow. There are a  lot of Albanian (known fact) people working in Greece and also having a Greek citizenship in some cases. When Greece will fall and they would adopt a different currency the Albanian people  (example given) who work in Greece will have problems and since the economies surrounding Greece in some cases support on Greece they'll have a really tough time as well.

 

This is my take on the situation at least.

[spartaman64]

Greece is not a dictatorship. Like I said, the problems of Greece is the fault of the people.

i dont see your point the prime minister didnt run on the slogan im going to destroy the economy so the greek people didnt know he was going to do that. 

[zMeul]

Greece can go **** itself - if there will be a vote from EU member states to kick Greece from EU, I'll vote YES

has anyone noticed the bonuses they get with their wages? like: bonus to show up at work?! they get payed 14 months for a 12 months work?! or that children can collect their dead parents pension?!

what the actual fuck! and they voted no when EU asked them to cut these outrageous bonuses ...

[FaZe Booce]

inb4 firepole>greece

 

and something tells me Greece can't be saved. They are in some deep shit.

[Notional]

of course he didnt say oh im going to destroy the economy during his campaign so how is it the greek's fault if he lied to them. the greek people are the victims here its like people blaming rape victims saying oh you shouldnt have worn a dress that shows your ankles so its all your fault

 

Which person are you talking about? Because this economical issue has existed for decades, under the leadership of many prime ministers. Your rape analogy is misplaced, misrepresentative and poor in taste.

 

Have you seen pictures of Greek houses with rebar sticking out of an otherwise finished house like this:

 

That's right, you don't pay taxes on your house, if it's under construction or being modified. So the result is that all houses are unfinished, but having a little rebar sticking out. The Greek people don't pay their taxes and swindle the government of everything they can. That is not the fault of politicians per say or any others.

[spartaman64]

Which person are you talking about? Because this economical issue has existed for decades, under the leadership of many prime ministers. Your rape analogy is misplaced, misrepresentative and poor in taste.

 

Have you seen pictures of Greek houses with rebar sticking out of an otherwise finished house like this:

 

That's right, you don't pay taxes on your house, if it's under construction or being modified. So the result is that all houses are unfinished, but having a little rebar sticking out. The Greek people don't pay their taxes and swindle the government of everything they can. That is not the fault of politicians per say or any others.

but that just meant that greece couldnt spend as much money and wouldnt be in this heavy debt if the one prime minister didnt lie about how much greece was making. saying greek people are lazy and are cheats is racism

[Notional]

i dont see your point the prime minister didnt run on the slogan im going to destroy the economy so the greek people didnt know he was going to do that. 

 

Politicians in Greece lies through their teeth and the Greeks vote for them. My point is that no Prime Minister has the power to do anything without the majority vote of the parliament. Like I said this is not the result of one mans doing in 1 year. This is the result of decades of government deficit spending, and Greeks who don't pay their taxes or vote/act responsibly.

 

The Greeks now voted in a communist party. What did they think they would get?

[spartaman64]

Politicians in Greece lies through their teeth and the Greeks vote for them. My point is that no Prime Minister has the power to do anything without the majority vote of the parliament. Like I said this is not the result of one mans doing in 1 year. This is the result of decades of government deficit spending, and Greeks who don't pay their taxes or vote/act responsibly.

 

The Greeks now voted in a communist party. What did they think they would get?

so if a bank takes all your money and doesnt give it back well you cant sue the bank because it was all your fault for trusting them

so it was all the greek people's fault that their prime minister lied to them

[Dimi3os]

Indeed, WWII was very much the consequence of the allies treatment of Germany after WWI. But that was not the fault of the German people. Greece is not where they are because of war or being defeated in wars. It is the result of extremely incompetent governance and the Greek people taking no responsibility and sucking the state dry of money at every turn they could.

 

When Greece exits the Euro, their Drachmar will hyper inflate for a short period. But let's see what Russia will do.

 

Drachme* 

It looks like all that you're looking for is admittance of the Greek people that they are the ones who caused this and that the European Union and the IMF are to blame for nothing. Fun fact: When Greece was willing to adopt the Euro the IMF was aware that it was going to have trouble and they let it slide, I remember this surfacing a couple of years ago. A Belgian politician was involved (don't remember the name).

[Ketcchup]

It's always funny to read 14yo weaboos discusing about politics and economy

[Dimi3os]

Greece can go **** itself - if there will be a vote from EU member states to kick Greece from EU, I'll vote YES

has anyone noticed the bonuses they get with their wages? like: bonus to show up at work?! they get payed 14 months for a 12 months work?! or that children can collect their dead parents pension?!

what the actual fuck! and they voted no when EU asked them to cut these outrageous bonuses ...

It's not about the European union it's about having the Euro, Romania still has the Leu...

[Dimi3os]

Which person are you talking about? Because this economical issue has existed for decades, under the leadership of many prime ministers. Your rape analogy is misplaced, misrepresentative and poor in taste.

 

Have you seen pictures of Greek houses with rebar sticking out of an otherwise finished house like this:

 

That's right, you don't pay taxes on your house, if it's under construction or being modified. So the result is that all houses are unfinished, but having a little rebar sticking out. The Greek people don't pay their taxes and swindle the government of everything they can. That is not the fault of politicians per say or any others.

I've been visiting Greece for 17 Years now and I can tell you that this isn't a common sight.

[spartaman64]

It's always funny to read 14yo weaboos discusing about politics and economy

its funny to see people throwing insults and not have anything productive to say

[Homicidium]

This probably means the exit of the Euro from Greece's side, and the bankruptcy of the Greek state. I wonder what plan B they are concocting with Russia as we speak. 

 

I personally think that a lot of people are reading a little too much into the whole Greece/Russia thing. 

 

In times of conflict, a cooperation between Russia and Greece could be very interesting, and rather dangerous, but as of right now, I don't think we're so much on a brink of a war, but rather of another financial crisis, considering that China's stock market dropped by over 20% last week. 

 

I personally fear that our currency is going to become more and more worthless, because the IMF kept printing and printing money to save Greece from, in my opinion, the inevitable, When our currency is essentially worth shit and unemployment rises, then the real "bad shit" happens, and to be honest, I'm not looking forward to that, if that would happen.