[Meta] Can we stop the GTX 960 circlejerk?

[AlexWJD]

Not in most games at 4K.

 

The 960 doesn't do anything the 760 didn't already do.  Atleast the 970 and 980 were significantly cheaper than the 780/780Ti despite their similar performance.  

 

It's not a bad card, but it could have been a great card if it was closer to the 970 in performance.

 

Fair enough. Indeed, great is overzealous. Whats your FX clocked at? If you don't get bottlenecks thats nice, don't have to spend that much on the CPU to enjoy 4k. 

[SSL]

The 960 is not an upgrade for 670 and 770 users. It is for the 660 and 760 users. Think of it like this: if you sell your current GPU (660's for $100 and 760's for $130) then you use it plus some more to upgrade to a 960, its not a bad deal.

 

The 960 is not an upgrade for 760 users. It ranges from marginally faster to trading blows. Spending money for the same performance is not an upgrade. The real upgrade to the 760 will be whatever Nvidia slots into the $200-$330 price gap, though arguably the 970 would still be a better value.

[sgloux3470]

Fair enough. Indeed, great is overzealous. Whats your FX clocked at? If you don't get bottlenecks thats nice, don't have to spend that much on the CPU to enjoy 4k. 

 

I've run it at 5 GHz for a long time, but I've started to dial it down to 4.8 GHz since I can run it at much, much lower voltages.  

[R_Golden]

This thread though.

The 960 is NOT a bad card. In fact it is pretty nice for 1080p. The reason it's rarely recommended is due to 2GBs of VRAM. Which is also why I have never seen someone recommend a 285. I would almost always step up to a 280x or buy a second hand 770 which in my area would be cheaper. If the 960 is $50 or cheaper over a 280x it is, to me, a better value.

[Octavialicious]

No its quite the opposite. The cooler is quite good. XFX is super loud and poor at cooling.

I take it that you've never used a reference nvidia cooler

[miagisan]

Fair enough. Indeed, great is overzealous. Whats your FX clocked at? If you don't get bottlenecks thats nice, don't have to spend that much on the CPU to enjoy 4k.

4k resolution the CPU becomes almost irrelevant in terms of performance. Graphics card becomes more important the higher in resolution you go.

[AlexWJD]

I take it that you've never used a reference nvidia cooler

 

If you're still talking about the PNY, the one we discussed is a fan, not blower design

[Octavialicious]

If you're still talking about the PNY, the one we discussed is a fan, not blower design

http://www.amazon.com/PNY-GeForce-GDDR5-Graphics-VCGGTX9602XPB/dp/B00SK8PK9A

 

PNY XLR8 just like I said, crappy reference design

 

as someone who has used this design many times, I can tell you an XFX cooler is a huge improvement

[AlexWJD]

http://www.amazon.com/PNY-GeForce-GDDR5-Graphics-VCGGTX9602XPB/dp/B00SK8PK9A

 

PNY XLR8 just like I said, crappy reference design

 

as someone who has used this design many times, I can tell you an XFX cooler is a huge improvement

 

Sorry I was confused, this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814133590&nm_mc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-PC&cm_mmc=KNC-GoogleAdwords-PC-_-pla-_-Desktop+Graphics+Cards-_-N82E16814133590&gclid=Cj0KEQjw6tepBRDLqLnxouaY_pkBEiQAPIOiBuvR05GRkO0wjsCsgDT9YIWvkQMN0r1NH8awHnQoGIYaAisD8P8HAQ&gclsrc=aw.dsis xlr8 as well, but I guess "Elite" on the end makes it different? 

[AlexWJD]

snip

 

I thought about what you said, and I probably would've made this post even if I didn't have a 960, because every GPU gets praised except it. Everyone seems to hate him.

 

I want to clear this up. I'm not trying to justify my purchase, this isn't buyers remorse. When I bought my 960, I also had the option of the 280X for $210 w/ rebate. I didn't take it, and I don't regret it. If I did, I would be screaming how the 960 is "pretty much the same as the 280X." But I'm not. Maybe I'm justifying the product, but I'm not justifying my personal purchase of said product. 

[MageTank]

I thought about what you said, and I probably would've made this post even if I didn't have a 960, because every GPU gets praised except it. Everyone seems to hate him.

 

I want to clear this up. I'm not trying to justify my purchase, this isn't buyers remorse. When I bought my 960, I also had the option of the 280X for $210 w/ rebate. I didn't take it, and I don't regret it. If I did, I would be screaming how the 960 is "pretty much the same as the 280X." But I'm not. Maybe I'm justifying the product, but I'm not justifying my personal purchase of said product. 

 

I cannot tell if you've lost the ability to read, or if you truly do not comprehend my words. Perhaps i need to bold my entire wall of text for you to understand the point I and several others have made.

 

Nobody is saying that the GTX 960 is a bad card. We are saying it is not as good as it should be, and that there are better options available.

 

That sentence above this, the one in bold, cannot be disputed. It is pretty much how it has been since the launch of the 960. It would make no sense for someone to say the GTX 960 is terrible, because it is basically a 760, for $20 cheaper than what the 760 launched at. Our entire point, the one point you keep ignoring, is that the card offers no improvement over the previous card to make it worth purchasing again.

 

The problem with the 960 is that its an unneeded refresh of a card that already did decent in its price range. People made these complaints before about cards that did this exact same thing. Where were you when people were complaining about the AMD rebranded cards? By now, if you are still capable of reading, you should be seeing a pattern that the previous complaints have made. The fact that the 960 is not an improvement to a 760, but in fact, an improvement on the GTX 660. Notice how Nvidia advertised it as the successor to the 660 instead of the 760. This is where we became annoyed, and why we still mock this card today. They waited years to release a card to replace a card from 2 cycles ago.  http://www.geforce.com/whats-new/articles/introducing-the-geforce-gtx-960

 

Don't even try to give me the "it has maxwell features!" BS, because DSR works on both kepler and fermi too. G-sync works on Kepler as well. DCC is a grey area, some like it, some hate it, so i can't even consider that a boon for a maxwell argument. In my eyes, the only thing Maxwell had going for it was its thermal headroom, and with a 20w TDP difference between the 960 and 970, the 960 cant even use that as an argument for cards in its own class.

 

Your quest to save the 960 in distress is a pointless one, because the 960 was never in danger. It is selling well, it is being used by budget gamers as it was intended to be used, and will be used until it no longer serves its purpose. 

 

I'll end this by repeating what i've been saying since the 960's launch. The GTX 960 missed the mark, and it is not worth upgrading to unless you are running something that cannot handle medium settings at 1080p. If you have a GPU that can handle the latest titles on medium settings at 1080p, save your cash for a real GPU. 

 

EDIT: Forgot the link to where Nvidia themselves mentioned this card was meant to replace the 660, not the 760. 

[GrimNeo]

Who hates the 960?

[MageTank]

Who hates the 960?

 

He confuses the word "hate" with "disapproval". Nobody hates the 960. We just know that better options exist in that price bracket, and we also know that upgrading from a 760 to a 960 is not an upgrade. He is trying to convince everyone otherwise, but its hard to go against facts. 

[GrimNeo]

He confuses the word "hate" with "disapproval". Nobody hates the 960. We just know that better options exist in that price bracket, and we also know that upgrading from a 760 to a 960 is not an upgrade. He is trying to convince everyone otherwise, but its hard to go against facts. 

The 960 was a letdown.

[MageTank]

The 960 was a letdown.

Prepare yourself for a quote from @AlexWJD on how it was not a let down, and how its the #1 selling GPU on amazon even though they slap that on pretty much every product ever sold, and how it was a 60% performance boost from his 660, even though that is the exact number Nvidia claims (We all know how skewed these numbers are when you take into consideration factory OC's and the application used to test said results).

 

I do agree, as everyone else did when the 960 launched. It really was a letdown. We all hoped it would be better than what it is, but it fell short. I just hope Nvidia continues with this lower TDP pattern. With some luck, I might actually get my wish for seeing a reference design ITX GPU.

[AlexWJD]

He confuses the word "hate" with "disapproval". Nobody hates the 960. We just know that better options exist in that price bracket, and we also know that upgrading from a 760 to a 960 is not an upgrade. He is trying to convince everyone otherwise, but its hard to go against facts. 

 

Maybe if you read my previous posts, you would understand. The 960 was put into the market to give people an Nvidia option in the $200 range, comparable t the 280 and 285. It does that. Hate is a perfect word. Check some of the pasts posts from yesterday and the day before, and you'll then realize that people hate the card. No matter what, people will still spread mis-information, and will still hate. I'm 100% at fault here, this is again pointless, nothing productive was made here, and for that I apologize. I'll never make one of these again, it never ends up well. I thought I'd do the community a favor by addressing these myths about the 960, but nae. 

[AlexWJD]

Prepare yourself for a quote from @AlexWJD on how it was not a let down, and how its the #1 selling GPU on amazon even though they slap that on pretty much every product ever sold, and how it was a 60% performance boost from his 660, even though that is the exact number Nvidia claims (We all know how skewed these numbers are when you take into consideration factory OC's and the application used to test said results).

 

I do agree, as everyone else did when the 960 launched. It really was a letdown. We all hoped it would be better than what it is, but it fell short. I just hope Nvidia continues with this lower TDP pattern. With some luck, I might actually get my wish for seeing a reference design ITX GPU.

 

Heh. I tried to as civil and polite as possible here, but you continue to make that a challenge. You're right, I will say the 960 was not a let down, it is the #1 GPU on amazon, and it does give a 60% performance boost. It's all true.

 

I'll be repeating myself here, but hopefully for the last time.

 

1) the 960 gave an Nvidia option to challenge the 280 and 285

 

2) My point with Amazon was that Nvidia will sell these nonetheless, when someone jokingly called me an Nvidia Marketing Rep 

 

3) It's 60%. Any benchmarks you compare will prove this, I don't understand why this is bad?

 

I'm starting to think you're just upset because the 960 can match your 770. 

[MageTank]

Maybe if you read my previous posts, you would understand. The 960 was put into the market to give people an Nvidia option in the $200 range, comparable t the 280 and 285. It does that. Hate is a perfect word. Check some of the pasts posts from yesterday and the day before, and you'll then realize that people hate the card. No matter what, people will still spread mis-information, and will still hate. I'm 100% at fault here, this is again pointless, nothing productive was made here, and for that I apologize. I'll never make one of these again, it never ends up well. I thought I'd do the community a favor by addressing these myths about the 960, but nae. 

 

Pretty sure the GTX 760 was in the $200 price range. It even dropped to $180-$190 in the month before the release of the 960. The posts in this thread mocking the 960 is not hate, its them making jokes that was made at the launch of the 960. You were not around during that large thread in which every person and their mother were crushed by the official release of the 960.

 

Heh. I tried to as civil and polite as possible here, but you continue to make that a challenge. You're right, I will say the 960 was not a let down, it is the #1 GPU on amazon, and it does give a 60% performance boost. It's all true.

 

I'll be repeating myself here, but hopefully for the last time.

 

1) the 960 gave an Nvidia option to challenge the 280 and 285

 

2) My point with Amazon was that Nvidia will sell these nonetheless, when someone jokingly called me an Nvidia Marketing Rep 

 

3) It's 60%. Any benchmarks you compare will prove this, I don't understand why this is bad?

 

I'm starting to think you're just upset because the 960 can match your 770. 

 

1. GTX 760 had that market at roughly the same price AND very comparable performance.

 

2. You did not need to make this point. Every single person in the world of computing knew the 960 would sell like hot cakes, because its cheap and Nvidia's marketing is always on top. Hell, they over-sold the GTX 970's specs and it was not caught for months. They know how to sell cards.

 

3. 60% in what? http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/NVIDIA-GeForce-GTX-960-2GB-Review-GM206-199/Pricing-Availability-and-Closing- 

 

Pcper showed that the 960 vs the 660 was a 52% boost in performance at best in Grid 2. At best being the key words here. In real world scenario's, you will be looking more around 40% real world performance difference in gaming. The one thing that Maxwell has going for it, is driver improvements that might further enhance its abilities over that of kepler. He goes on to say that the GTX 960 is on average, 10-15% faster than the GTX 760 (with some cases showing them to be evenly matched). Is 10-15% worth the $200? Even if you sell your old card for $100, would you pay $100 for 10-15% more performance? If so, spend that $100 on a 970 and get more than 10-15%. 

 

I would not call being stubborn "being polite". You are civil, i give you that, but you fail to acknowledge what should be considered facts at this point. Nobody is insulting the 960 based on its performance. We are insulting it because of what it failed to deliver. People have come to expect more from their hardware.

 

That Pcper review of the 960 shares pretty much the same thoughts on what everyone else has to say about the card. It is a budget gaming card that has to compete with the 280 and 285, but it brings nothing special to the table when compared to what the other Maxwell cards do. It is also severely bound to 1080p, and will be unless DX12 makes 2 + 2 = 4 when it comes to SLI. 

[Kinda Bottlenecked]

Unfortunately thats just how your country is But please don't act like its like that for everywhere, because its not

My point exactly. Unfortunately the 960 is not cheap in other places. Please do not act like this everywhere. Not everyone has the same reason as you for liking/hating the 960.

[xAcid9]

"960 overclock like a champ! can easily reach 1.5jhz"

 

 

 

Most of the aftermarket card already boosted to 1.4ghz anyway, so you only add 100mhz+ to the "final" clock speed. They need to pre-oc the 960 to make it competitive enough, sad card really.

 

 

In terms of actual clock speeds, the EVGA card leads the pack by a wide margin while achieving a constant frequency of 1456MHz, the next best competitor being the diminutive Zotac AMP! at 1404MHz. MSI is able to compete quite well too with a core speed of 1366MHz. Finally, the lines of Gigabyte and Galax are one and the same since they were both able to achieve 1392MHz. 

 

 

[Delusional Phil]

Hmm ... I think I'm just gonna get the R9 270X from Powercolor , better performance than GTX 750 Ti , slightly lower performance against the GTX 960 , can do GTA V at 720p ( I don't need 60fps , I just need >45 ) with ultra settings AND has the price similar to GTX 750Ti in my country + more money so I can go 4 cores ! 

[MageTank]

Hmm ... I think I'm just gonna get the R9 270X from Powercolor , better performance than GTX 750 Ti , slightly lower performance against the GTX 960 , can do GTA V at 720p ( I don't need 60fps , I just need >45 ) with ultra settings AND has the price similar to GTX 750Ti in my country + more money so I can go 4 cores ! 

 

If you can stretch your budget for a 280X, i would highly recommend doing so. If you cannot, the R9 270x is still a very strong performer for its price. If the 960 is cheaper than the R9 270x in your country, then i would probably get that instead. Rare circumstances in which i would actually recommend a 960 to someone. Get the best GPU that you can for whatever you can afford. If you only have $200, get the best damn GPU you can with that $200.

[Delusional Phil]

If you can stretch your budget for a 280X, i would highly recommend doing so. If you cannot, the R9 270x is still a very strong performer for its price. If the 960 is cheaper than the R9 270x in your country, then i would probably get that instead. Rare circumstances in which i would actually recommend a 960 to someone. Get the best GPU that you can for whatever you can afford. If you only have $200, get the best damn GPU you can with that $200.

GTX 960 cost $100 more than the R9 270X in my country . R9 280X is even worse , I can get GTX 970 with the same price as the R9 280X . I was thinking R9 280 from PowerColour ( it's about $220 ) but I'm hesitant . If I get the R9 280 I can't get the I5 , so that's why I chose R9 270X ( preferably the PowerColour version ) 

[chopdok]

http://static1.gamespot.com/uploads/ignore_jpg_scale_medium/159/1590344/2849489-2160920414-http-.jpg

 

GTX 960 beats R9 280X in GTA 5. So please, do tell me how the 3 GB is "better in the long run", and how "R9 280X is way more future proof". Here you have a game, GTA 5, that is very much VRAM intensive. So, where is the mighty R9 that beats the GTX due to having more VRAM and higher VRAM bandwith? Ah, right, its actually BS and nVidia's architecture is more efficient.

[MeDownYou]

GTX 960 cost $100 more than the R9 270X in my country . R9 280X is even worse , I can get GTX 970 with the same price as the R9 280X . I was thinking R9 280 from PowerColour ( it's about $220 ) but I'm hesitant . If I get the R9 280 I can't get the I5 , so that's why I chose R9 270X ( preferably the PowerColour version ) 

I'd recommend the i5, the 270x will have you tied over nicely until you can get a better gpu (It's like the ideal card for 1080p if you only need the settings on medium)