[Forbes] Why 'Watch Dogs' Is Bad News For AMD Users -- And Potentially The Entire PC Gaming Ecosystem

[BookerDeWitt]

Ubisoft’s Watch Dogs is the latest PC title to take advantage of Nvidia’s GameWorks, a robust collection of tools that allow game developers to produce a visual experience which epitomizes Nvidia’s rallying cry: “The Way It’s Meant To Be Played.” Developers license these proprietary Nvidia technologies like TXAA and ShadowWorks to deliver a wide range of realistic graphical enhancements to things like smoke, lighting, and textures. Nvidia engineers typically work closely with the developers on the best execution of their final code.
 

Recent examples of Nvidia GameWorks titles include Batman: Arkham Origins, Assassin’s Creed IV: Black Flag, and this week’s highly anticipated Watch Dogs.

As you’re suspecting from the headline, Nvidia’s GameWorks is only good news for Nvidia, their development partners, and their GPU users. That’s logical, and it serves a sizable slice of the market. According to AMD’s Robert Hallock, it’s terrible news for the PC gaming ecosystem on the whole.

 

“Gameworks represents a clear and present threat to gamers by deliberately crippling performance on AMD products (40% of the market) to widen the margin in favor of NVIDIA products,” Hallock told me in an email conversation over the weekend. But wait, it stands to reason that AMD would be miffed over a competitor having the edge when it comes to graphical fidelity and features, right? Hallock explains that the core problem is deeper: “Participation in the Gameworks program often precludes the developer from accepting AMD suggestions that would improve performance directly in the game code—the most desirable form of optimization.”

So a partner studio like Ubisoft can suggest or write enhancements to the GameWorks libraries, but AMD isn’t allowed to see those changes or suggest their own.

“The code obfuscation makes it difficult to perform our own after-the-fact driver optimizations, as the characteristics of the game are hidden behind many layers of circuitous and non-obvious routines,” Hallock continues. “This change coincides with NVIDIA’s decision to remove all public Direct3D code samples from their site in favor of a ‘contact us for licensing’ page. AMD does not engage in, support, or condone such activities.”

 

I asked Robert Hallock about this specifically, and he explains that they had “very limited time with the title and [we've] been able to implement some respectable performance improvements thanks to the skill of our driver engineers. Careful performance analysis with a variety of internal tools have allowed us to profile this title, despite deliberate obfuscation attempts, to improve the experience for users.”

AMD will release a new driver to the public this week which reflects those improvements. (It’s the same driver I conducted my testing with.) Unfortunately my conversation with Hallock didn’t end with a silver lining: “I am uncertain if we will be able to achieve additional gains due to the unfortunate practices of the Gameworks program,” he remarked.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2014/05/26/why-watch-dogs-is-bad-news-for-amd-users-and-potentially-the-entire-pc-gaming-ecosystem/

[samuel]

It's just ONE game!

[TechFan@ic]

This is a really sad state of affairs. I have covered the controversy surround the GameWorks program in the past & I have to come to the conclusion that the true intentions behind this program aren't about improving visuals nor helping developers it's simply about stifling competition.
You can check out my coverage here :
How Nvidia's GameWorks Program Will Affect Gaming.
Developers Criticze Nvidia's GameWorks Program on Twitter For Its "BlackBox" Nature.

[BookerDeWitt]

It's just ONE game!

It isn't and that's not an excuse.

Recent examples of Nvidia GameWorks titles include Batman: Arkham Origins, Assassin’s Creed IV: Black Flag, and this week’s highly anticipated Watch Dogs.

[qwertywarrior]

from what im reading even developers are angry at this

[MilkyWhite]

I’ll leave you with the fact that Unreal Engine 4, the latest graphics engine from Epic, has Nvidia’s GameWorks built into its core. Epic’s prior version, Unreal Engine 3, was widely adopted and we should expect no less from their newest iteration, which frankly looks stunning. Whether or not this will hamper the performance of future titles on AMD hardware this dramatically would only be conjecture at this point, but I think cause for concern is warranted.

This is really bad news. How is AMD supposed to compete when the game is rigged ? literally. Unreal 4 is just one engine that we know of who knows how many others are going to be rigged.

[nokturrduk84]

Good news

[Kamil]

So Nvidia has a program where developers put some extra time into making the game look good and run well only on Nvidia hardware? Yeah, AMD would NEVER do anything like that. I mean, say, inventing a whole new API that's only compatible with AMD GPUs but boosts performance significantly for games that use it... totally not something AMD would do.

[ZacDaMan72]

Nvidia don't complain about mantle. Even if their drivers may not live up to the whatever% better than mantle they don't whine.

[MattDaemontools]

Good news

Pathetic ! enjoy your 1000$ middle range nvidia graphics cards if this continues.

[brownninja97]

Shit is getting real serious these days, amd is under major attack   *checks gpu* fuck.

[brownninja97]

Good news

go back to youtube for those types of comments, you want to start a war here

[Audacius]

So Nvidia has a program where developers put some extra time into making the game look good and run well only on Nvidia hardware? Yeah, AMD would NEVER do anything like that. I mean, say, inventing a whole new API that's only compatible with AMD GPUs but boosts performance significantly for games that use it... totally not something AMD would do.

Mantle is open source, so your point is invalid.

[StingBull]

It's just ONE game!

 

Watch Dogs won't live up to this much hype. I'm expecting Yahtzee's review of it thrashing it.

[MilkyWhite]

So Nvidia has a program where developers put some extra time into making the game look good and run well only on Nvidia hardware? Yeah, AMD would NEVER do anything like that. I mean, say, inventing a whole new API that's only compatible with AMD GPUs but boosts performance significantly for games that use it... totally not something AMD would do.

Nvidia don't complain about mantle. Even if their drivers may not live up to the whatever% better than mantle they don't whine.

AMD offered Mantle to Nvidia for FREE they refused to take it.

Developers HATE gameworks because it isn't about making the game look good it's about Nvidia seizing the game code hostage.

Read the article.

 

In my opinion there’s nothing inherently wrong with a company choosing to closely guard the keys which may unlock a competitive advantage. AMD is upset because they adopt the opposite approach. “Our work with game developers is founded concretely in open, sharable code, all of which we make available on our developer portal,” Hallock says. “We believe that enabling a developer with obvious and editable code that can be massaged to benefit everyone not only helps AMD hardware, but makes it possible for all gamers to benefit from our partnerships with a developer. As TressFX Hair runs equally well on AMD and NVIDIA hardware, for example, you can see this is true.”

I believe Hallock isn’t just offering up lip service here. AMD’s “FreeSync” technology aims to improve the working relationship between display and GPU by tapping into the open “Adaptive Sync” specification which will soon be standard on all DisplayPort-enabled monitors. Nvidia’s solution, G-Sync, is proprietary and involves custom hardware built into standard monitors. (I haven’t seen FreeSync in action, and I admittedly love what G-Sync offers. But that doesn’t change the facts surrounding the technologies.) AMD’s Mantle, a low-level API, doesn’t require the company’s GCN architecture to function properly. AMD says it will work equally well on Nvidia cards. The company clearly waves a banner of open-source development and ideals.

[nokturrduk84]

Also this statement from the source article is a lie: "AMD’s 290x graphics card performs 51% better than Nvidia’s 770 on one of the most demanding PC titles around."

290x doesn't performs 51% better than 770.

[Sauron]

That's always been the case with proprietary code, hasn't it? It would be great to see nvidia make this open source, so that everybody wins. But they won't, right? *sigh*

As it stands, AMD's guy is right (even if biased): nvidia is basically forcing games to run worse on amd hardware. That's bad news for me, since I just bought an r9 290 (I don't regret it, but still this is bad), and for anyone who plans on purchasing amd products in the future.

Also, a monopoly is never good. I have had both amd and nvidia cards and I had a great experience with both, I hope they both stay competitive and none gets such a high preference from developers that they can set whatever price they want.

[nokturrduk84]

And nothing's wrong with these news. If you want to play Nvidia optimized games with better performance, buy Nvidia card. If not, don't complain.

[EChondo]

Since a recent thread was closed due to people posting their performance measurements when playing Watch_Dogs since it wasn't released yet. Well I'll post mine because even though the game's "official" release date is tomorrow, Steam is going to be opening it up tonight, so technically today is the release day. If a moderator wishes to edit my post to omit my results and experiences until tomorrow, then I'll gladly comply and understand.

 

I have a i7-3770 and a 7870GHz edition card. I am on 14.3CC and play at 1080p. On Ultra preset and being out in the city, I get around 30-40FPS. When I play at medium it jumps up to around 70FPS. When indoors, just add 20FPS to both.

 

If I am suppose to be getting more FPS, then I am kinda dumbfounded because it plays great for me on a 7870, so not even current gen.

 

 

And nothing's wrong with these news. If you want to play Nvidia optimized games with better performance, buy Nvidia card. If not, don't complain.

 

I am usually a pacifist when it comes to which side is better, but this is just blatant fanboism. Whichever side has the best performance:dollar is the right card to get, but this BS "GameWorks" from Nvidia is skewing the results into Nvidia's favor, deceiving customers. I am honestly considering this to be illegal for false advertising. This isn't "Nvidia optimized", it's "AMD gimped".

[nosirrah123]

Sounds like marketing and a whole lot of nothing else

[LAwLz]

Mantle is open source, so your point is invalid.

No it isn't. Mantle is as closed source as GameWorks. I still don't get where this misinformation that Mantle is open source comes from.

It would be far better if AMD and Nvidia could focus on improving open source solutions but sadly it doesn't seem like either of them are all that interested in doing so.

 

It's sad but I don't think we will move away from proprietary APIs that favors one manufacturer over the other in a very very long time. It's just too good of a way to make your product more appealing than the competitors.

[samuel]

Catalyst 14.6 is about to be released! 

[pixeldensity]

And nothing's wrong with these news. If you want to play Nvidia optimized games with better performance, buy Nvidia card. If not, don't complain.

so with that logic, you would like to see games like to see future games that AMD partners with to be crippled for NV gpus right?  you would be fine if 780ti were to struggle to keep up with a R9 280X for those types of games?

[Audacius]

No it isn't. Mantle is as closed source as GameWorks. I still don't get where this misinformation that Mantle is open source comes from.

It would be far better if AMD and Nvidia could focus on improving open source solutions but sadly it doesn't seem like either of them are all that interested in doing so.

 

It's sad but I don't think we will move away from proprietary APIs that favors one manufacturer over the other in a very very long time. It's just too good of a way to make your product more appealing than the competitors.

I guess I don't know how to read then:

 

AMD has stated that Mantle will be an open API.

[Joe4evr]

I guess I don't know how to read then:

"Open" is not strictly inherently "Open Source". You can have a programming API that has plenty of documentation and support, yet still have its source code undisclosed.