[Forbes] Why 'Watch Dogs' Is Bad News For AMD Users -- And Potentially The Entire PC Gaming Ecosystem

[jmaster299]

Amd does not lock NVIDIA out. 

No one is locked out with Game Works either. Everyone is falsely claiming that games can not be optimized for AMD GPUs when Game Works is used, but that is a 100% lie. The game can still be optimized, hell they can use Mantle with it, if they want. But if the developer CHOOSES not to, that's on the developer. There is nothing that prevents a game from supporting both Game Works and Mantle.

[SkilledRebuilds]

 

http://www.anandtech.com/show/8058/amd-catalyst-146-beta-drivers-now-available-adds-new-eyefinity-functionality-more

[AxelRantila]

Not that I'm defending Nvidia (I just have better personal experiences with Intel/Nvidia in general but that's another discussion), but didn't something similar (emphasis on similar) happen with Tomb Raider on release as well?

[nokturrduk84]

Nvidia just released update which improves performance in Watch Dogs

 

[Immort]

A bit like what happened between Tomb Raider 2013 and Nvidia. Nvidia never even got their hands on it until it was released. 

Not that I'm defending Nvidia (I just have better personal experiences with Intel/Nvidia in general but that's another discussion), but didn't something similar (emphasis on similar) happen with Tomb Raider on release as well?

No it's quite different than Tomb Raider. Tomb Raider does not operate on closed AMD libraries which only AMD has access to. Watch Dogs on the other hand was built using Nvidia's closed "blackbox" GameWorks libraries, so even if/when AMD gets its hands on the game code to optimize it. It simply can't access it because GameWorks is locked to AMD.

Tomb Raider was different. Nvidia did in fact get to optimize the game code for its hardware and several in-game patches were released for the sole purpose of that. AMD can't do the same with any GameWorks game. Developers can't patch the game to optimize for AMD hardware.

Another example is TressFX. AMD published the documentation for TressFX for Nvidia to optimize for its GPUs. Robert Hallock from AMD even acknowledges that.

[Guest Generallee]

LOL

 

You mean my 290 will struggle with this game ? I'm gonna check that myself, because i'm pretty confident it's gonna be playable

 

Mantle was meant to compete with DX, not Nvidia. And i don't remember BF4 being locked to Mantle only ...

 

 

58fps, i will survive

[BookerDeWitt]

How is this different from AMD Gaming Evolved titles?

This is vastly different from AMD's program.

With AMD's gaming evolved titles Nvidia is allowed to optimize the game code as they please and even implement their own proprietary technologies.

Far Cry 3 was an AMD title but it supported Nvidia's HBAO ambient occlusion which ironically now is part of the GameWorks library and developers cannot implement it seperately. They have to use the locked libraries which AMD cannot optimize if they want to use any Nvidia technology.

Another example is Crysis 3 yet another AMD title which supports proprietary Nvidia tech, HBAO & TXAA again both of which are now part of this GameWorks crap.

[Askew]

This is vastly different from AMD's program.

With AMD's gaming evolved titles Nvidia is allowed to optimize the game code as they please and even implement their own proprietary technologies.

Far Cry 3 was an AMD title but it supported Nvidia's HBAO ambient occlusion which ironically now is part of the GameWorks library and developers cannot implement it seperately. They have to use the locked libraries which AMD cannot optimize if they want to use any Nvidia technology.

Another example is Crysis 3 yet another AMD title which supports proprietary Nvidia tech, HBAO & TXAA again both of which are now part of this GameWorks crap.

Interesting, what about Tomb Raider 2013? Nvidia drivers were trash on launch due to apparent withholding of the game from them.

Do you have any information on that particular situation?

[AxelRantila]

No it's quite different than Tomb Raider. Tomb Raider does not operate on closed AMD libraries which only AMD has access to. Watch Dogs on the other hand was built using Nvidia's closed "blackbox" GameWorks libraries, so even if/when AMD gets its hands on the game code to optimize it. It simply can't access it because GameWorks is locked to AMD.

Tomb Raider was different. Nvidia did in fact get to optimize the game code for its hardware and several in-game patches were released for the sole purpose of that. AMD can't do the same with any GameWorks game. Developers can't patch the game to optimize for AMD hardware.

Another example is TressFX. AMD published the documentation for TressFX for Nvidia to optimize for its GPUs. Robert Hallock from AMD even acknowledges that.

 

Yeah, it was TressFX I was thinking of. I remember reading some graphics card review for an Nvidia card (I think) where Tomb Raider was used for benchmarking, but it had to be disabled because it caused so many problems.

 

I only played Tomb Raider on a bad laptop and didn't look at the graphical settings, so maybe things have improved.

[kuddlesworth9419]

No it's quite different than Tomb Raider. Tomb Raider does not operate on closed AMD libraries which only AMD has access to. Watch Dogs on the other hand was built using Nvidia's closed "blackbox" GameWorks libraries, so even if/when AMD gets its hands on the game code to optimize it. It simply can't access it because GameWorks is locked to AMD.

Tomb Raider was different. Nvidia did in fact get to optimize the game code for its hardware and several in-game patches were released for the sole purpose of that. AMD can't do the same with any GameWorks game. Developers can't patch the game to optimize for AMD hardware.

Another example is TressFX. AMD published the documentation for TressFX for Nvidia to optimize for its GPUs. Robert Hallock from AMD even acknowledges that.

Yea I know that but I was drawing similarities in the outcome. I don't think it will be that big of an issue. Tomb Raider turned out fine on Nvidia GPU's as far as I know it just took a little longer for it to get optimized and fixed. Watch Dogs won't be any different. AMD cards run every other GameWorks fine doesn't it so I doubt there will be any difference. Although I would say there does need to be some work done on the communication side between Nvidia, AMD and the game dev. It needs to be neutral and AMD needs to be able to look at the game before it comes out. That goes for when both companies get a hold of the game design team before the other one does. 

[nokturrduk84]

Tomb Raider still performs poorly even on my GTX 770. Even if I disable AA at all, fps drops sometimes to 30-25 in some scenes (mostly during cinematics scenes [when Lara is talking to others]). I think with second 770 it will be good, but not with single 770.

[matin94]

this fucking stops me from buying watchdogs all together.

i had a 670, now a 290 because it was a really good deal at the time. fuck my life why does Nvidia continue to be a total cunt!

[That Norwegian Guy]

Watch Dogs won't live up to this much hype. I'm expecting Yahtzee's review of it thrashing it.

 

Yahtzee is not a reviewer, he's a critic, and his videos are comedy and not supposed to be anything but entertainment. If you base your purchases on what Yahtzee said, you'll almost never buy a game at all.

[matin94]

Watch Dogs won't live up to this much hype. I'm expecting Yahtzee's review of it thrashing it.

by any chance, where u talking about

Escapist?

im curious about the review

[TheProfosist]

AMD does or at least did this stuff too...

[Guest Generallee]

AMD does or at least did this stuff too...

 

When ?

[Timmyfox]

And nothing's wrong with these news. If you want to play Nvidia optimized games with better performance, buy Nvidia card. If not, don't complain.

The way I understand it, this isn't about Nvidia having their own additional features though but rather that they use uncompetitive behavior by actively making Nvidia-optimized games run worse on AMD hardware to make their own cards more attractive.

 

There's a difference in optimizing something for your product and actively causing problems for another company so that your own product will seem like the better one.

[swifty7]

what's with all the bait and switch from these game developers of late?  I mean aside Tom Raider 2013 which was received very well

from people, what's with the "it's good enough" attitude from developers?

 

it's making me turn off to pc gaming all together.

[Fetzie]

And nothing's wrong with these news. If you want to play Nvidia optimized games with better performance, buy Nvidia card. If not, don't complain.

 

Presumably you wouldn't complain if a new game that you really wanted to play ran twice as well on AMD hardware, because it was optimized for AMD?

[Syntaxvgm]

Presumably you wouldn't complain if a new game that you really wanted to play ran twice as well on AMD hardware, because it was optimized for AMD?

No, as he seems to have an 8800GT stuck up his ass. 

[The Crazed Child]

I used to be a NVIDIA fanboy but this just sickens me.

[nj4ck]

No one is locked out with Game Works either. Everyone is falsely claiming that games can not be optimized for AMD GPUs when Game Works is used, but that is a 100% lie. The game can still be optimized, hell they can use Mantle with it, if they want. But if the developer CHOOSES not to, that's on the developer. There is nothing that prevents a game from supporting both Game Works and Mantle.

...so you really think they just flip a coin and "choose" not to impliment something like mantle. Let me assure you there is some serious money flowing behind the scenes here.

[nj4ck]

Does AC4 run horribly on amd? Damn I was going to buy that game when it came out on steam sale. You'd figure since console are more pc like it be easier. Why can't Ubisoft get some people who know how to optimize for the PC.

dunno, my R9 290 never drops below 60 fps on ultra...

[Fetzie]

Looking at those videos linked a couple of pages earlier, WD is just a bad GTA4 clone. And GTA4 isn't that great to begin with (but at least it has semi-realistic physics and destruction models).

 

Of course, I'm not buying the game because Ubisoft burned that bridge years ago.

[Paralectic]

That's not even funny. I can understand things like PhysX here and there that don't do a lot, but a full set of "assets" which will only seems to be here for the sake of undermining competition? I don't like it.

It seems so backward in 2014 to start locking games down when it seems the trend is "multiplatform".

 

Some might say Mantle is the same thing, but it really isn't (imo). It's an API which (they said) will be "open" for other manufacturers/platforms in the future.

/offtopic If gaming is to come on Linux I don't think OpenGL (not on desktop anyway) in its current state is the way, hence my hope with Mantle in the long term.

 

Is it me or it's mostly Ubisoft games that use this thing?

"undermining competition?" Under.. Mining.. AMD GPUs..

 

 

 

ha.ha