AMD FSR3 demonstrated, along with AFMF

[porina]

 

Update 25 Oct. 2023

FSR3 Frame Generation was released early October. To try it out yourself for free you can download the Forspoken demo and enable it. As a game integration, this also works on nvidia GPUs.

AFMF has been released for testing in a preview driver, now supporting RDNA2 as well as RDNA3 GPUs.

 

Content below is the original news post and will not be further updated.

 

Summary

AMD's answer to NVIDIA's DLSS 3 frame generation has been demonstrated. Reports are it looks the equal to DLSS 3, but it was a hands-off demo so general people haven't had a chance to experience how it feels yet. Coming September 2023. Hardware recommendations for FSR 3 frame generation: Supported RX 5700, RTX 20 series, Recommended RX 6000 series and above, 30 series and above. 

 

An early demo of AMD Fluid Motion Frames (AFMF) was also shown. This is a "generic" frame generator that works at driver level reportedly working for DX11 and DX12 titles, but this comes at a cost of requiring at least RDNA3 GPU. This is expected Q1 2024.

 

Quotes

Quote

FSR 3 is a frame generation solution that operates along similar lines to Nvidia's DLSS 3 - combining frame generation (Fluid Motion Frames) with super resolution upscaling (FSR 2) and latency reduction (Anti-Lag+) in a small number of supported games, with Forspoken and Immortals of Aveum set to first debut the technology. FSR 3 will work on Radeon graphics cards, as well as Nvidia and Intel GPUs.

 

My thoughts

FSR 3 as a vendor agnostic implementation of frame generation could open up opportunities for more people. It is positive that those from the Digital Foundry team who looked at AMD's demo were happy with the visual output and comparable to nvidia's DLSS 3. We'll have to wait and see how the "feel" of it goes since that is still a questioned point for nvidia's implementation.

 

The further demo of AFMF is also interesting. Much like RSR gave a generic implementation of FSR in the driver, AFMF is FSR 3 in driver, but limited to RDNA3 GPUs. Does it rely on some tech only present in that generation or is it an early implementation thing, with wider support to come? Note AFMF in driver implementation will not have access to game engine vector information so it may be more comparable to a TV like interpolation with lower latency.

 

There are some practical considerations to using either of these, but that also applies to DLSS 3 anyway so isn't a new problem.

 

Edit: trying to understand some things. FSR 3 seems to be the combination of FSR + AFMF + Anti-Lag+, in a parallel that DLSS 3 is DLSS SR + FG + Reflex. What combination of those components will be used if FSR 3 will be used on non-AMD hardware? Could you for example swap Anti-Lag+ with Reflex for example? Anti-Lag+ is an improved implementation requiring Radeon 7000 series GPUs. Anti-Lag remains in use for RX 6000 series and older GPUs. So FSR 3 will be something that's going to take potentially more testing than DLSS 3 due to the wider permutations possible.

 

Sources

https://www.eurogamer.net/digitalfoundry-2023-amd-reveals-long-awaited-fsr-3-tech-and-frame-gen-for-every-dx11dx12-game

https://community.amd.com/t5/gaming/first-look-at-amd-fidelityfx-super-resolution-3/ba-p/626581

https://gpuopen.com/fsr3-announce/

 

 

[Senzelian]

Finally. Not that I care, cause frame generation is ugly af, but still, it was about time.

[AndreiArgeanu]

Always great to see AMD bring these kind of technologies out, seeing as they're open source.

[Middcore]

These are the games they choose to demonstrate their new tech? AMD's marketing makes me despair. 

[starsmine]

bringing this over from GPU thread since it belongs more here in news

They claim have some sort of latency-reducing tech on everything, but AntiLag+ is exclusive to RDNA 3. 

Frame gen is such a gross tech for games.

Its like the opposite problem of Nvidia of locking things down to hard, AMD opens things up to much and I suspect will lead to some bad experiences. (running FSR3 frame gen without anti-lag+ on... everything is what I suspect will be a bad experience)

[Crunchy Dragon]

2 minutes ago, starsmine said:

Its like the opposite problem of Nvidia of locking things down to hard, AMD opens things up to much and I suspect will lead to some bad experiences.

Be interesting if Intel could swoop in and occupy the perfect middle ground

[porina]

9 minutes ago, Middcore said:

These are the games they choose to demonstrate their new tech? AMD's marketing makes me despair. 

More is coming:

 

Of that list, Yakuza 8 is the only one I'm interested in, and it is unlikely to need it. It is turn based combat and a 3070 already gives 50fps+ at native 4k in Yakuza 7.

[WereCat]

At least they've got CP2077 to compare directly with DLSS3 as the game is getting heavily updated with the NVIDIA tech too.

[tim0901]

51 minutes ago, porina said:

More is coming:

 

Of that list, Yakuza 8 is the only one I'm interested in, and it is unlikely to need it. It is turn based combat and a 3070 already gives 50fps+ at native 4k in Yakuza 7.

 

A significant amount of these use Unreal Engine, which is a good sign for widespread future support if nothing else.

 

Frostpunk 2, Crimson desert and Black Myth: Wukong aren't expected to be released until sometime next year though.

[Arokhantos]

Cant even imagine considering a NVIDIA gpu anymore unless NVIDIA has an answer to FSR3 at driver level and comes with DLSS3 at driver level, ofcourse devs can always implement dlss3 to their game but how does that help for old games no longer updated, DLSS3.5 is nice but only matter of time AMD comes with their own vision of the same thing as they just acquired an AI company that specialized in AMD hardware.

[starsmine]

38 minutes ago, Arokhantos said:

Cant even imagine considering a NVIDIA gpu anymore unless NVIDIA has an answer to FSR3 at driver level and comes with DLSS3 at driver level, ofcourse devs can always implement dlss3 to their game but how does that help for old games no longer updated, DLSS3.5 is nice but only matter of time AMD comes with their own vision of the same thing as they just acquired an AI company that specialized in AMD hardware.

Devs still have to implement FSR3

AFMF I have MAJOR doubts on. 

[Arokhantos]

5 minutes ago, starsmine said:

Devs still have to implement FSR3

AFMF I have MAJOR doubts on. 

 

There been rumours about driver level frame generation for a while now and that it will work on any game that has FSR2 but this is now what it sounds like, unless its indeed how it will work and AMD made the biggest oopsie ever which i just cant imagine they would do cos it would haunt them forever.

Perhaps FSR3 comming to xbox means Microsoft is working with AMD making it possible.

[Quackers101]

Could be that nvidia opens it up a bit when AMD does this, like previous versions. and intel could do similar to nvidia or so, or something different again. Nice to see AMD targeting Direct X 12 and Direct X 11 titles and maybe able to get people to inject/mod it like FSR or similar previously (in selected titles). But it sounds like AMD might inject more fake frames between native frames, like maybe a quick one and a smoother one? or how it sounds like or just similar to Nvidia's version.

Not sure why unity is often left out, ofc unreal being more of a trend.
Also do wish to know if AMD has gotten any further with their AI focused tasks, if you have to wait for next generation for any good game specific AI features. same goes for intel, which has XMX and stuff like that could maybe do very well in future generations.

[Quackers101]

low quality, fsr 3 comparison.

[Brooksie359]

6 hours ago, Arokhantos said:

Cant even imagine considering a NVIDIA gpu anymore unless NVIDIA has an answer to FSR3 at driver level and comes with DLSS3 at driver level, ofcourse devs can always implement dlss3 to their game but how does that help for old games no longer updated, DLSS3.5 is nice but only matter of time AMD comes with their own vision of the same thing as they just acquired an AI company that specialized in AMD hardware.

Honestly frame generation is super gimmicky imo and in older games you won't need frame generation anyways as your fps will already be high. While the tech is cool I don't think this is going to be a very compelling reason to go AMD over nvidia. 

[porina]

17 hours ago, Arokhantos said:

Cant even imagine considering a NVIDIA gpu anymore unless NVIDIA has an answer to FSR3 at driver level and comes with DLSS3 at driver level, ofcourse devs can always implement dlss3 to their game but how does that help for old games no longer updated, DLSS3.5 is nice but only matter of time AMD comes with their own vision of the same thing as they just acquired an AI company that specialized in AMD hardware.

There are multiple features at different levels.

 

Driver level upscaling:

AMD: RSR

Nvidia: NIS

Intel: no news?

 

AMD are ahead here as NIS feels like a much more basic implementation. Better than nothing but you'd have to be desperate to use it. RSR is comparable to FSR, not FSR 2. I think Intel were first to offer integer (retro) upscaling but that is a niche case.

 

 

Driver level frame generation:

AMD: upcoming AFMF, requires RDNA3

Nvidia: no news

Intel: no news

 

Note this is very different from game integrated solutions. The software will not have game engine vector information assist and will have to rely on optical flow. This might be more like "TV quality" frame generation since they work off similar information. PC implementation for gaming will be more latency sensitive.

 

 

Game integrated upscaling:

AMD: FSR, FSR2

Nvidia: NIS, DLSS, DLSS2 - DLSS requires RTX GPUs

Intel: XeSS (codepaths for Intel and other GPUs)

 

Recent DLSS is generally considered better than FSR2, although FSR2 remains good enough for most. Even XeSS is starting to gain traction as a multi-vendor option with comparable or better image quality than FSR2.

 

 

Game integrated frame generation:

AMD: upcoming FSR 3, minimum RX 5700, recommended 6000 series or newer

Nvidia: DLSS 3, requires 40 series

Intel: no news

 

It is still early days for this tech. Nvidia's implementation has limitations, and AMD's is looking like it will have some too, not necessarily the same ones. On both sides, the FG tech by itself works best for getting games from around 60fps (after upscaling) to higher. It is not going to save 30fps games on console.

 

 

RT denoising:

AMD: no news

Nvidia: upcoming DLSS 3.5 Ray Reconstruction, requires RTX GPUs

Intel: no news

 

 

With the impending release of the 7800 XT AMD may finally get some volume going on the current generation sales and we can see how these technologies will help out.

[StDragon]

Intel and AMD need to collaborate on a standard. Having both FSR and XeSS compete with DLSS isn't helping when Nvidia's solution is technically the better one of the bunch.

[RejZoR]

1 hour ago, StDragon said:

Intel and AMD need to collaborate on a standard. Having both FSR and XeSS compete with DLSS isn't helping when Nvidia's solution is technically the better one of the bunch.

Although it almost doesn't matter in the end. I've used FSR 2 and DLSS in latest Need for Speed and i couldn't tell the difference. Neither have I noticed the visual glitches documented by Digital Foundry. Similar with Overwatch 2 which uses FSR 2.2. Only thing I've noticed was slight ghosting in Hero menu if you spin the hero and you notice slight ghosting on their feet. But only if you let it be still for second or two and then move. If you're moving hero constantly, no ghosting will be observed. During gameplay, I couldn't spot any ghosting, but I did notice model edges are smoother with FSR 2.2 compared to native 1440p. Which is certainly a good thing.

 

I can't wait to play Starfield which is rumored to come with FSR3. Given how good FSR2 is, I have pretty high hopes.

[Quackers101]

5 hours ago, StDragon said:

Intel and AMD need to collaborate on a standard. Having both FSR and XeSS compete with DLSS isn't helping when Nvidia's solution is technically the better one of the bunch.

there hasn't been any good path and everyone doing their own.
streamline, nvidia+ intel. But would agree that XeSS has currently got more going for it and hope to see the improved version of the bit glitchy start.

https://developer.nvidia.com/rtx/streamline

3 hours ago, RejZoR said:

Although it almost doesn't matter in the end. I've used FSR 2 and DLSS in latest Need for Speed and i couldn't tell the difference.

it very much depends on the scene and game, some places it will just show more and could be hard to notice when you got nothing to compare it to.
Else DLSS and XeSS can do more with their reconstruction process and RT or other methods? hopefully we see the path for AMD and more so for AI-like options on their side and get it to work as intended.

 

the pain with FSR 3 is performance difference over many different types of cards, bugs etc. but good to see them pushing for some overall option.

To how they will use the everything bundle of "hyper RX".

Edited August 28, 2023 by Quackers101

[RejZoR]

2 hours ago, Quackers101 said:

there hasn't been any good path and everyone doing their own.
streamline, nvidia+ intel. But would agree that XeSS has currently got more going for it and hope to see the improved version of the bit glitchy start.

https://developer.nvidia.com/rtx/streamline

it very much depends on the scene and game, some places it will just show more and could be hard to notice when you got nothing to compare it to.
Else DLSS and XeSS can do more with their reconstruction process and RT or other methods? hopefully we see the path for AMD and more so for AI-like options on their side and get it to work as intended.

 

the pain with FSR 3 is performance difference over many different types of cards, bugs etc. but good to see them pushing for some overall option.

To how they will use the everything bundle of "hyper RX".

Digital Foundry showcased horrible skyscrapers flickering in NFS. I haven't spotted it even once during regular gameplay of racing around.

[Quackers101]

1 hour ago, RejZoR said:

Digital Foundry showcased horrible skyscrapers flickering in NFS. I haven't spotted it even once during regular gameplay of racing around.

could be bad implementation too, so could be a game fix or newer FSR version, or something else.

[RejZoR]

7 hours ago, Quackers101 said:

could be bad implementation too, so could be a game fix or newer FSR version, or something else.

Nah, it's more that you just don't notice these things unless you're pixel peeping. Do you have time to do that when you have 10 cops chasing you at 250km/h ? Or observing micro ghosting of feet against floor in Overwatch during combat? Or even in spawn room where everyone is moving and jumping around? It has to be really obvious like the initial ghosting of car's rear wing that was constantly in players field of view and extending outside the car's model, making it super visible. Or street lamps leaving trails. Most of stuff like this doesn't even happen anymore or is instantly fixed. Micro glitches aren't even really observable.

[porina]

A problem with games reviews is they're mostly a snapshot in time. Usually at or very close to launch, since that is when interest is highest. If improvements are later made to the game, they're less likely to be reported.

 

I do watch Digital Foundry content. Sometimes I don't even see the "problem" they're describing. Sometimes it requires zooming in and speed reduction to see it. Sometimes it is very obvious. Rarely I see something that is obviously bad to me but they think it is ok (FF16 motion blur). They did make a point in one of their many discussion pieces that different people may have different sensitivities to different artefacts.

[Quackers101]

4 hours ago, RejZoR said:

Most of stuff like this doesn't even happen anymore or is instantly fixed. Micro glitches aren't even really observable.

that can be true, but some can still change the "feel of the game" in unexpected ways, but some could be more to the game engine and the game itself as of now? Like the FSR title that they used in the video above, I just felt the ghosting of edges but it was more of a native issue with the game itself. some unreal games have some unstable motion stuff, or nanite + post processing messing with stuff.

3 hours ago, porina said:

They did make a point in one of their many discussion pieces that different people may have different sensitivities to different artefacts.

yes it will be like colors on a screen or different controls, some people get used to it or does not notice, or it could impact how they play or feel about the game. Be it flickering, ghosting, color changes or "detail popups", object/image reconstruction, smooth vs hard edges etc, also if some would impact animation to input delay like some with frame generation.

[RejZoR]

6 hours ago, Quackers101 said:

that can be true, but some can still change the "feel of the game" in unexpected ways, but some could be more to the game engine and the game itself as of now? Like the FSR title that they used in the video above, I just felt the ghosting of edges but it was more of a native issue with the game itself. some unreal games have some unstable motion stuff, or nanite + post processing messing with stuff.

yes it will be like colors on a screen or different controls, some people get used to it or does not notice, or it could impact how they play or feel about the game. Be it flickering, ghosting, color changes or "detail popups", object/image reconstruction, smooth vs hard edges etc, also if some would impact animation to input delay like some with frame generation.

I mean, I was rather annoyed by ghosting of feet in main menu of Overwatch 2 when browsing Hero models, but realized I've not once had time to spot that in actual game. It seems ghosting is created when something stands absolutely still for lets say 3 seconds and then moves as multiframe blending and upscaling caches/accumulates the pixel data. if object is constantly in motion, this doesn't even becomes visible. So in the end, it really doesn't matter. Biggest advantage is edge smoothing because the upscaler smooths the edges waaaaaay better than just SMAA alone (even at 1440p). So I just have it enabled because of that.