Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[Vexenar]

6 minutes ago, Potatoes2241 said:

I'd say it made more sense for Steve to disable monetization (and still put merch on stage) for his claims to be treated seriously and not like a piece of drama generating clicks. LTT on the other hand responds to those claims, they do not need to disable monetization to make it sound less like a clickbait video because they have no option but to respond. So might as well take some income from it anyway.

 

And the sponsor jokes were ok, we are overthinking it.

Steve his merch is ALWAYS on stage, If you actually properly watched the video and the evidence presented by Gamers nexus in that and the follow-up video you would see it as a legitimate piece of criticism against a company that's grown too fast and doesn't have anything in place to guarantee proper quality of their processes.  

As I previously stated the entire video comes off as disingenious because we saw Linus his initial /unfiltered/ reaction to the video.
We also saw Linus his reaction to Billit in the WAN show, where he felt no need to apologize for incorrectly testing a prototype even though the correct card for it was sent with the actual prototype. 

The sponsor jokes were terrible and completely uncalled for in that video, it just further damaged their credibility which is already going down the drain. 

[Leksi T]

I think the monetization arguments are complete bullshit on all sides.  GN demonetizes his video as a show of good faith while bringing what could easily be interpreted as drama.  That's mostly a signal towards LMG more than anything.  And despite all my criticisms of GN, it's a good move, though I wish they didn't have to. They have to make money too after all.  LMG is under no obligation whatsoever, to do the same in kind.  They're a company who's goals include making money.  As far as going early on Floatplane, who the F cares. Their core of supporters is there, and if they wanna cater to that group, it's their right.

 

While the bait and switch sponsor spots were cringe, and I personally didn't find them funny in context, they were far from offensive IMO.  Colton's bit with the screwdriver... I think that was a bad move.  Joking about being money hungry in that video makes him and the people apologizing around him look like idiots. I didn't find it offending me so much as more critical of what everyone in that video said.  GN's showing off his wares? Especially if that's his default set? That's part of his job, just as it's part of Colton's job to sell screwdrivers.

[Blademaster91]

22 minutes ago, Amaninacity said:

It’s pretty clear that his marching orders are to shut the fuck up going forward.

I kinda doubt he actually will though, the company is Linus Media Group and I expect Linus will still get to run a lot of things how he wants to, also given the response video being monetized, plugging for the LTT store and trying to be funny I am skeptical of Linus taking a more mature approach with replying to the community.

5 minutes ago, Forbidden Wafer said:

That was 2 months ago... Of course it can be replaced, just have to machine a new one, which costs quite a lot.

And it sets them back on time for machining, Billet could have sent the block to other reviewers interested. Jayztwocents said he's interested in testing Billet lab's block on Twitter/X.

[dustypaws]

1 minute ago, ClassicCustoms said:

After watching the apology video, I do think it's a step in the right direction. I do also think that there was a lot of strong emotions clouding judgement and causing issues all over. I appreciate them stating what they plan to do to fix things. I also looked at the email that was sent to Billet Labs (or meant to be sent, apparently one or so emails didn't get sent to them?), and the whole "at least it's not sitting on a shelf" thing is a bad look. However, I'd also argue that Steve made LTT look worse than they needed to. In his second video, he only used the whole "at least it's not sitting on a shelf" quote (I am paraphrasing slightly), and didn't bother to mention that LTT offered to send the prototype back ASAP after hearing what happened. So, shame on you, Steve. If Billet Labs didn't send you that part of the email, then I guess the issue falls on them. If they did, well, that's not very good journalism, Steve. Overall, I hope that LTT will stick to their word and improve.

I love that (although I have trouble understanding him at times) Terren took full responsibility for the direction it goes from here. Linus needs to be reigned in for his own good (although I like Linus...he's too much for himself...)

[VeryScary]

8 minutes ago, Forbidden Wafer said:

That was 2 months ago... Of course it can be replaced, just have to machine a new one, which costs quite a lot.

What does it being two months ago have to do with anything? 

 

The way they made it seem to everyone was they need this specific prototype back. Even GN said something along the lines of this prototype being one of a kind.

[NorKris]

1 minute ago, surrey_nerd said:

Why is GN monetizing their journalism a question here? lol bootlickers are best

yee imagine that the guy that give us THE BEST numbers in tests needs to eat lol 

[Kon-Tiki]

2 minutes ago, ClassicCustoms said:

After watching the apology video, I do think it's a step in the right direction. I do also think that there was a lot of strong emotions clouding judgement and causing issues all over. I appreciate them stating what they plan to do to fix things. I also looked at the email that was sent to Billet Labs (or meant to be sent, apparently one or so emails didn't get sent to them?), and the whole "at least it's not sitting on a shelf" thing is a bad look. However, I'd also argue that Steve made LTT look worse than they needed to. In his second video, he only used the whole "at least it's not sitting on a shelf" quote (I am paraphrasing slightly), and didn't bother to mention that LTT offered to send the prototype back ASAP after hearing what happened. So, shame on you, Steve. If Billet Labs didn't send you that part of the email, then I guess the issue falls on them. If they did, well, that's not very good journalism, Steve. Overall, I hope that LTT will stick to their word and improve.

I think this is the main thing I take issue with on the GN video. All the other points were for the most part very well founded by evidence and there is nothing Steve or GN needed to do with regards to contacting LMG beforehand. With the block on the other hand I believe this would have been required, especially since they reached out to Billet Labs as well. On an issue where not all necessary information is in the public domain (communication between the two of them, for instance), reaching out for comment is good style. But that's not to discredit anything else GN said, only this would have required more care in my eyes.

[surrey_nerd]

9 minutes ago, Potatoes2241 said:

I'd say it made more sense for Steve to disable monetization (and still put merch on stage) for his claims to be treated seriously and not like a piece of drama generating clicks. LTT on the other hand responds to those claims, they do not need to disable monetization to make it sound less like a clickbait video because they have no option but to respond. So might as well take some income from it anyway.

 

And the sponsor jokes were ok, we are overthinking it.

When Washington post does a story should they not monetize their site with ads when they do it?

 

 So dumb lol

[Potatoes2241]

1 minute ago, coopa said:

In an apology video, you don't crack jokes because it makes it seem like you consider the whole thing a joke and are not taking the criticisms/issues at hand seriously.
You do not plug your own merch in an apology video because then, again, it makes it seem like your apology is insincere, you are taking it as a joke, plug something to make money. Nor do you leave your merch link in the description.
You do not leave monetization on for an apology video because even as you pause sales for the next week because this says you view your apology video as a money making opportunity and not something owed to the community.

 

All of these factors effectively cheapen LMG's response. They should replace the video as-is (one of a very few select youtube channels that can do so without changing the video URL) to remove the sponsor jokes, demonetize the video, and remove the merch link from the description.

Eh maybe you are right, to me it sounded more like an awkward attempt to chill the level of drama. Not it a malicious gaslighting sense but more like when you try cracking jokes after a verbal fight with a friend and trying to make up for it. Maybe a matter of perspective so I'm not saying you are wrong. This whole topic is insanely serious and complicated but again, to me it seems like LMG getting way to much vitriol than they deserve (they still deserve some tho), so awkward attempts at lowering the pressure are to be expected.

 

Anyway, I suppose it's not like people would seriously go buy some merch after seeing this video even if it has the references

[VeryScary]

7 minutes ago, Rimson said:

1. Monoblock on 3-4 occasions (granted he probably wasn't responsible for it and perhaps some employee fucked up but still)

2. he lied about that power supply, granted his knowledge wasn't sufficient to begin forming an opinion there

3. that he acted ethically in his WAM shows towards his fello tech reviewers
I could probably find a few more but then again, it isn't my job to point them out. you can find them yourself

1. Colton's team

2. Getting something wrong isn't a lie

3. He's opinion on the situation isn't a lie just because you feel differently about it. 

[dustypaws]

1 minute ago, NorKris said:

yee imagine that the guy that give us THE BEST numbers in tests needs to eat lol 

"eating"....I have to look that up...

[Leksi T]

4 minutes ago, Leksi T said:

I think the monetization arguments are complete bullshit on all sides.  GN demonetizes his video as a show of good faith while bringing what could easily be interpreted as drama.  That's mostly a signal towards LMG more than anything.  And despite all my criticisms of GN, it's a good move, though I wish they didn't have to. They have to make money too after all.  LMG is under no obligation whatsoever, to do the same in kind.  They're a company who's goals include making money.  As far as going early on Floatplane, who the F cares. Their core of supporters is there, and if they wanna cater to that group, it's their right.

 

While the bait and switch sponsor spots were cringe, and I personally didn't find them funny in context, they were far from offensive IMO.  Colton's bit with the screwdriver... I think that was a bad move.  Joking about being money hungry in that video makes him and the people apologizing around him look like idiots. I didn't find it offending me so much as more critical of what everyone in that video said.  GN's showing off his wares? Especially if that's his default set? That's part of his job, just as it's part of Colton's job to sell screwdrivers.

And to add to that, LMG is taking a week off shooting. That is gonna eat into their revenue far more than just a week of videos.  I think it's worth it, in the end, for the sake of LMGs credibility, but they're far from making money on this fiasco.

[coopa]

1 minute ago, Leksi T said:

I think the monetization arguments are complete bullshit on all sides.  GN demonetizes his video as a show of good faith while bringing what could easily be interpreted as drama.  That's mostly a signal towards LMG more than anything.  And despite all my criticisms of GN, it's a good move, though I wish they didn't have to. They have to make money too after all.  LMG is under no obligation whatsoever, to do the same in kind.  They're a company who's goals include making money.  As far as going early on Floatplane, who the F cares. Their core of supporters is there, and if they wanna cater to that group, it's their right.

 

Gamers Nexus has a goal of generating revenue as well. It's not as nearly as big as LMG, but it does exist to make money and gives their employees a paycheck. They generate money from monetizing youtube videos, as well as sponsorships and selling their own merch.

 

Leaving monetization on the LMG apology video is forcing anyone who doesn't have YT Premium or adblock to view ads that directly benefit LMG's corporate coffers before they can watch LMG give the apology. It sends a message that, like every other upload, this is viewed as a money making opportunity. When combined with the merch link in the description and the plug of the screwdriver, it erodes the authenticity and sincerity of the apology by making it seem like this video is business as usual. It shouldn't be, but that's the message these things said.

Similarly, the "sponsor - just kidding" jokes cheapen the nature of the apology because it makes it seem like the people making these jokes are treating the apology itself as a joke. It's jarring and it has no place in this video.

[eskimododo]

Nothing will change. Linus will forget this in a week and go back to his old habits like he has done for the last few years. And I was right that Linus will plug merch messages in his response video. He needs u to buy more stuff from him so that he can ignore ur opinions more.

[NorKris]

Just now, dustypaws said:

"eating"....I have to look that up...

look at the animal in ur pic and google "burger" 

[Ottoman420]

Just now, NorKris said:

look at the animal in ur pic and google "burger" 

Instructions not clear, stuck inside daisy

[Nucleosynthesis]

I'm pretty happy with the - what do we do now? - video.

 

Excellent response in contrast tot Linus' terrible initial responses.

 

I think LTT will be able to regain trust if they stay on this course! 

[Mark Kaine]

3 hours ago, RockerBug17 said:

If you're sincere about that statement I'd like to hear criticism of GN. Receipts is how the kids would say it.

so how do i prove to you that like 99% of information on youtube, and that includes "Steve's" (zalmann cooler "review" for example) is fabricated or at least highly opinionated... huh? 

 

no, you're absolutely free to believe whatever you want tbh.

[Leksi T]

1 minute ago, coopa said:

Gamers Nexus has a goal of generating revenue as well. It's not as nearly as big as LMG, but it does exist to make money and gives their employees a paycheck. They generate money from monetizing youtube videos, as well as sponsorships and selling their own merch.

 

Leaving monetization on the LMG apology video is forcing anyone who doesn't have YT Premium or adblock to view ads that directly benefit LMG's corporate coffers before they can watch LMG give the apology. It sends a message that, like every other upload, this is viewed as a money making opportunity. When combined with the merch link in the description and the plug of the screwdriver, it erodes the authenticity and sincerity of the apology by making it seem like this video is business as usual. It shouldn't be, but that's the message these things said.

Similarly, the "sponsor - just kidding" jokes cheapen the nature of the apology because it makes it seem like the people making these jokes are treating the apology itself as a joke. It's jarring and it has no place in this video.

LMG has never hidden the fact that they will treat every video as a money making opportunity.  Each of us can take that or leave it.

 

The jokes and screwdriver.  Yeah, I think we're close to the same page there.  Guess it means we just gotta remain critical of what we hear from LMG going forward, more than ever.

'

And yeah, GN needs to make money too.  Like I said before, I wish they didn't have to demonetize their vid to show good faith.  I remain critical of GN's approach, but they consider it a part of their job to call out others in the space, and they should get paid for doing that job.  However, they probably felt the gesture was necessary, and no-one can fault them for that.

[theboysinthewoodz]

i'd say the biggest "issue" is that LMG is running a lab.  If they were just reviewing tech and making off the cuff remarks about it, then it is what it is.  But if you are trying to run a lab you should hold yourself to a higher standard.  As opposed to making quirky opinionated videos.  There is a higher cost of doing business in that the audience can rightfully so do pier reviews of your processes. 

 

I'd compare it to the difference of writing a letter to the editor that is filled with your opinion vs publishing something as a scientific magazine that you claim you came to the conclusion based on science and facts. 

 

You could come to the same conclusion from each, but on one people will scrutinize how you reached that conclusion much harder than the other.  I think Chris Titus said it best, why does Lab even exist?

[stflames01]

23 minutes ago, Rimson said:

if you would lie, I wouldn't care less.
If someone, to who people are looking upto and who are using his review as fact and act/buy according to that opinion, lies then it is not "THEN WHAT?" 

Why are you holding Linus to the same standards as people who's opinion doesn't matter ?
Trust me there is a difference.

Why are you refusing to see him as anything but a personality? Because you are certainly right. There is a difference. You take the humanity away then you breed a monster. They are trying to make things right. Watch, even if only skeptically. Or, don't. But its allow for growth and change and not be so quick to sharpen a pitchfork 

[surrey_nerd]

 

[coopa]

Just now, Leksi T said:

LMG has never hidden the fact that they will treat every video as a money making opportunity.  Each of us can take that or leave it.

And that's fine - for a normal video. If they want to make money in multiple ways (sponsor mentions, store/merch mentions, monetization on YouTube) whether it's an in-depth hardware review, a first look at a product, a goofier video like setting up a giant fan or whatever, the WAN show, that is their right. And as a for profit business, LMG exists to make money and pay its employees.

 

An apology video should be the exception to the rule. Leaving it monetized sends the wrong messagel

This is especially baffling because in terms of revenue, they stand to lose far more by pausing all production for at least a week and by, for the foreseeable future, cutting their upload frequency to ensure quality. But that just makes monetizing this apology video even more baffling! You're forcing people to watch ads to watch an apology. It makes zero sense and sends the wrong message... 

[Uttamattamakin]

11 minutes ago, coopa said:

Leaving monetization on the LMG apology video is forcing anyone who doesn't have YT Premium or adblock to view ads that directly benefit LMG's corporate coffers

You know Youtube will run ads on a demonetized video ...they just won't pay the creator. 

[shabs_za]

tbh if you go back and watch the review of this water block LS went out of his way to tear away at billet labs and their product, it was a direct attack on them and their small company. What was done in the background regarding the illegal sale of their property seems more malicious than a simple mistake and logistics issue so I still dont buy the apology.

 

This video should have started off with "Billet Lab's we're awfully sorry for the damage and harm we have caused you and this is what we are doing to make right on our wrongs" and then moved on to all the other heart felt requests for the viewers trust.

 

As a small business owner I cannot imagine the pain that this has caused to all at BL, and it really shows the real LS.