Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[VisibleXela]

2 minutes ago, SimonShipperd said:

Cooling block price

Afaik they only asked GN to not reveal the price. Otherwise, just a mistake.

I have a lot of issues with your responses, but I think this one takes the cake. This whole thing started from LMG making too many silly errors, making another serious one in the apology video for making silly errors is a seriously bad look.

 

Is it going to trigger the apocalypse and bring forth the antichrist? Absolutely not, but it does make the whole "we're going to do better in the future, bro, trust me" harder to swallow.

 

The jokes about sponsorships, tone deaf nature of the video, monetizing the video, pimping the stupid screwdriver - all of this also makes it harder to believe they're going to put integrity over their business relationships. If they can't even put aside the needs of the business for two seconds to do an apology video without trying to sell me an $80 screwdriver why should I believe they're going to cut off shady ties with the tech companies they should be critiquing?

[dragonuck76]

18 minutes ago, Rhino16 said:

I think just some of the specifics about the water block. I saw a lot of people saying nothing was done until after GN’s video, but in the What do we do now video, we learn that stuff was being done, but errors were made and emails weren’t send properly.

 

I think it was also simplified a bit, as they were originally allowed to keep it. Billet decided they wanted it back, and that arrangement was agreed to. Maybe there’s earlier stuff I’m missing, but it’s just a communication nightmare!
 

Just a little more info would have avoided the whole theft complaints, and allowed people to focus on the meaningful issues.

exactly.... GN made a meal on it, though pointing out issues, but abused the whole thing for his gain -  that is how it feels, yet all went on the offensive to blame LTT with out allowing them to come forward with their side.

[starsmine]

The apology video I am more then satsified with, Pumping the breaks and reevaluating the SOP is what is needed.

[slash-proc]

1 minute ago, Zaf9670 said:

Probably because they know the target audience will appreciate it? They obviously want to keep their core community so if it offends others they probably weren't going to be fans of the channel to begin.

That's narrow minded. I've also been a fan for many years at this point and one of LMG's selling points has been their legitimacy. That particular selling point is important to a lot of people and brings with it scrutiny when it appears to be eroding. We all want LMG to do well, don't get it twisted. What you and I care about is apparently not 100% aligned which is fine.

[Costanzathemage]

Watched the response video. Started off strong, but in the middle and end with Linus, I still heard excuses and blaming of others.

Linus looked like he was held hostage. He did not want to do that segment. You could see it in his angry eyes.

[VisibleXela]

3 minutes ago, Zaf9670 said:

Probably because they know the target audience will appreciate it? They obviously want to keep their core community so if it offends others they probably weren't going to be fans of the channel to begin.

You said this like it's a positive, but I'd argue that if this is the case this is really no different than the Colleen Ballinger ukelele apology (albiet less funny). If your apology involves an attempt to alienate the people criticizing you then it's hard to take you at your word that you want to do better.

[AbsoluteWoo]

2 minutes ago, slash-proc said:

That's narrow minded. I've also been a fan for many years at this point and one of LMG's selling points has been their legitimacy. That particular selling point is important to a lot of people and brings with it scrutiny when it appears to be eroding. We all want LMG to do well, don't get it twisted. What you and I care about is apparently not 100% aligned which is fine.

Please explain how a couple characteristic jokes jeopardises the legitimacy of this video.

[SimonShipperd]

2 minutes ago, Costanzathemage said:

Watched the response video. Started off strong, but in the middle and end with Linus, I still heard excuses and blaming of others.

Linus looked like he was held hostage. He did not want to do that segment. You could see it in his angry eyes.

Please, provide some time stamps where Linus or any one else is still blaming others? I'm genuinely curious.

[Wintyr]

Anyone get ads wstching the video thisnis going to get major views youtubes ad revenue on this is going to be lite up

[EchoBravo498]

12 minutes ago, Rex Hite said:

Fans are being seriously tested.

 

 

 

A certain Noctua fan by chance? llol!

[zeroality]

Ok I saw the response, I’m satisfied for now and I went on a 20+ post angry rant about being lied to so yeah looks like no WAN show this Friday, time to relax lads. Bye now this was entertaining.


@LinusTech good response btw 

[Uttamattamakin]

19 minutes ago, AbsoluteWoo said:

The BilletLabs stuff is bad, but big mistakes happen and anyone who thinks LMG did it on purpose are moronic.

 

Things don't need to be on purpose to cause a potential legal issue.  The world just does not work that way.  Compared to such an issue getting charts wrong on a GPU is far less important.

 

8 minutes ago, VisibleXela said:

I have a lot of issues with your responses, but I think this one takes the cake. This whole thing started from LMG making too many silly errors, making another serious one in the apology video for making silly errors is a seriously bad look.

 

Is it going to trigger the apocalypse and bring forth the antichrist? Absolutely not, but it does make the whole "we're going to do better in the future, bro, trust me" harder to swallow.

 

The jokes about sponsorships, tone deaf nature of the video, monetizing the video, pimping the stupid screwdriver - all of this also makes it harder to believe they're going to put integrity over their business relationships. If they can't even put aside the needs of the business for two seconds to do an apology video without trying to sell me an $80 screwdriver why should I believe they're going to cut off shady ties with the tech companies they should be critiquing?

As one who has been critical of this apology lets not go over board.  It is at least a 7/10 or a 7.1/10.  Linus is apologizing over some GPU charts and Colton accidentally selling a prototype.  Since there was not criminal intent it could be a potential tort (though if this was the US a overzealous district atty could make something of it).   

It's not like he murdered someone or was a televangelist caught with a hooker.   Lets not loose perspective.  IT could have been less defense, less ego, pure acceptance that he had violated the trust of his community.   Showing one understand that would earn one eternal respect from friend and foe.  That's not what he did... but this is till a VERY ok apology for what he's apologizing for. 

 

(Other issues on other social media that have been revealed, Me Too kinda issues inside LTT, might need that Jimmy Swaggart level apology.) 

[slash-proc]

3 minutes ago, AbsoluteWoo said:

Please explain how a couple characteristic jokes jeopardises the legitimacy of this video.

For me, plugging the store and joking about sponsors was tone deaf. Only time will tell the legitimacy of this video. All I said is it didn't give me much faith that what was said will actually happen. I'll keep watching for now and see what happens over time. I just wish they had been more tactful.

[Saeumii]

1 hour ago, gregcron said:

 

I'm not seeing revenue in that graph.  Just % breakdown by revenue stream.  Quick search shows some people arriving at different estimates.  Where's the $70mm coming from?

 

adsense accounts for about $1-2 mil in income. if adsense is nearly a quarter of their total income, $2 mil *4 is $8 mil. not even close to $70 mil. idk if i'm doing this wrong, but if i am then it has to be a pretty big error to be so far from $70 mil

[Costanzathemage]

2 minutes ago, SimonShipperd said:

Please, provide some time stamps where Linus or any one else is still blaming others? I'm genuinely curious.

Go watch it yourself. I'm not getting paid to do work for you.

[SimonShipperd]

1 minute ago, Costanzathemage said:

Go watch it yourself. I'm not getting paid to do work for you.

I already watched it. That's why I'm asking you to provide the proof. Since you're bringing up this statement it is up to you to back it up with evidence.

[AbsoluteWoo]

2 minutes ago, Uttamattamakin said:

Things don't need to be on purpose to cause a potential legal issue.  The world just does not work that way.  Compared to such an issue getting charts wrong on a GPU is far less important.

Companies make big legal blunders all the time, we just don't hear about them as much. The community calling for Linus' head would be appalled at some of the legal issues their favourite companies get into that they never hear about. Sometimes the community just needs to grow up and realise they don't have to react to everything.

[VisibleXela]

5 minutes ago, Uttamattamakin said:

As one who has been critical of this apology lets not go over board.  It is at least a 7/10 or a 7.1/10.  Linus is apologizing over some GPU charts and Colton accidentally selling a prototype.  Since there was not criminal intent it could be a potential tort (though if this was the US a overzealous district atty could make something of it).   

It's not like he murdered someone or was a televangelist caught with a hooker.   Lets not loose perspective.  IT could have been less defense, less ego, pure acceptance that he had violated the trust of his community.   Showing one understand that would earn one eternal respect from friend and foe.  That's not what he did... but this is till a VERY ok apology for what he's apologizing for. 

 

(Other issues on other social media that have been revealed, Me Too kinda issues inside LTT, might need that Jimmy Swaggart level apology.) 

I made it very clear I didn't think it was awful. I even made the same joke you did, just instead of murder I picked the antichrist. I didn't even mention criminal behavior, not sure where that came from.

 

Just that if the point was to get me or any subscriber to believe that LTT is going to slow down, make fewer mistakes, and prioritize integrity then they probably should have done those things in the actual content of the video. I'm sorry, I just don't think that's overboard.

[QuantumSingularity]

I've been a member of the LTT community, before it was even LTT. Blond Linus era with handheld footage of parts that were available in the warehouse of NCIX. With the recent events i am not mad, i am not angered or frustrated, but i am sad. Sad because it was one of the coolest community which came up with crazy ideas most of us dreamed of, but couldn't manage to do. One thing was always constant - the passion for the technology. Sadly in the last 5-6 years it's been almost completely gone. Sure, Linus acts excited and there are some good interactions with people like Alex and Anthony, but they are very rare and everything looks both very scripted AND very rushed. Quantity replaced quality. All the videos are in search of the next big trendy wave to surf, so they can capture and lure more new viewers, while the original audience starts to feel left out. I am sad because although Linus says money and business didn't change him, they actually did. He now thinks as a business owner more than as enthusiast. I basically feel like i've lost a really good friend, who had the same crazy ideas as me and that's why i am sad. And i've been witnessing this thing happen over the span of 5-6 years. It's the lessened quality of the videos that hurts and saddens me. I honestly don't even try to keep up with all the videos that LMG pumps out now, while i never missed a single one up until 6 years ago.

There are also few more issues, but this one is the main that i have problem with. The lack of quality at some point was so bad, that i started wondering if the rumors about Intel and Nvidia background sponsor schemes are true. I mean LTT is a part of a very small group of channels that still run GPU tests with intel 13900k. Everyone else uses either 7800X3D or 13700/12700k and gets better results even with low end graphics. Idk if this is intentional or just lack or experience or care, but it certainly leaves a sour aftertaste and feels a bit sus at times.

Pulling punches when criticizing companies when they fail spectacularly is another area that raises questions. A lot of reviewers go berserk on the companies when they decide to screw up the customers, not LTT anymore. 

[Uttamattamakin]

3 minutes ago, AbsoluteWoo said:

Companies make big legal blunders all the time, we just don't hear about them as much. The community calling for Linus' head would be appalled at some of the legal issues their favourite companies get into that they never hear about. Sometimes the community just needs to grow up and realise they don't have to react to everything.

Hmm maybe because I follow a lot of legal news the algorithms pipe it to me more.  You are right most don't hear about these.  BIG Fortune 500 corps will pay out HUGE class actions all the time.  

LTT is not little anymore, but a medium sized biz, can't afford to pay someone 1 million or 10 million or spend 500k to 1,000,000 or more fighting such things in court.  A valuation of 100 million does not mean 100 million in cash in an account.  An ounce of legal prevention is worth a pound of cure in cases like this.  

[Blademaster91]

40 minutes ago, SimonShipperd said:

At a certain point, the toxic cesspool that is the LTT subreddit started targeting his kids. This went way beyond questioning the integrity of LTT, these were nothing more than personal attacks.

Yeah, he does run on feelz, just like he said in the video. And I think that's what a lot of people also like about Linus. He is very open about a lot of stuff, about more than he should be some times. But I'd rather have a person like that, than some corporate reaction.

Not just the LTT subreddit, the targeting of a younger audience is done with videos as well, the bright flashy thumbnails, making ridiculous things like a game controller out of gold.

I'm sure his fans like that he runs on his personal feelings, but from this thread and the apology video thread, people are tired of Linus taking criticism and told to better as a personal offense. Linus needs to separate his feeling from how he runs a business.

40 minutes ago, SimonShipperd said:

Apology video is monetized.

Honestly, who cares? Is that all that people can take away from this? I know people worshiped the holier than though disabling of monetization by GN. Do you really think that this wasn't a well thought out strategy by GN? Does it really take away from the message? Especially since they won't be releasing any video for the next week.

Because it seems like more of a "whoops we got caught but hey buy our mech" sort of video.

GN picked points that have been a problem with LMG videos for a while now, that doesn't take a ton of planning to do.

Also not making a video for a week doesn't mean much IMO, I'll believe their claims if they make changes to improve. But I'm sure the fans that expect a daily video would be disappointed.

40 minutes ago, SimonShipperd said:

LTT/LMG merch staged on set
What staged merch? Hell, what set? They are literally sitting on a couch in front of a camera. I didn't see anyone complain about GN's merch being plastered all over his set with his demonetized video.

Linus is wearing a LTX shirt in the video, thats still plugging their merch, although thats not nearly as bad as doing a LTT store plug in the video.

40 minutes ago, SimonShipperd said:

Links to lttstore

What does this matter? Really, explain. How does this in any way take away from the message?

It takes away from the message that it seems like LMG cares more about money than they do offering a genuine apology.

40 minutes ago, SimonShipperd said:

Cooling block price

Afaik they only asked GN to not reveal the price. Otherwise, just a mistake.

And yet LTT still took too long to hide the price of the block.

40 minutes ago, SimonShipperd said:

69

Six nines = 99,9999% uptime. Oh no, he made a small wink referencing a running gag that's been going on for years. I don't see what that has to do with company culture. I doubt that a guy with 2 small daughters would ever allow such behavior in his company.

It's clearly a sexual joke, not very appropriate for what should be a serious video.

I know why they did it though, because his targeted audience probably can't sit through a video without getting a few jokes.

40 minutes ago, SimonShipperd said:

All in all, I feel that people who are nitpicking at everything in the video can not be satisfied. Some people would only have been satisfied if it was a video stating that they're shutting down LMG affective immediately.

People aren't satisfied because again it seems like they didn't really want apologize, the merch store plug and jokes of sponsorships only made it worse. Saying that people want LMG shut down is a kneejerk reaction to valid criticisms people have here.

I used to enjoy LTT videos but I haven't been interested in most videos they make because they are quantity over quality, I want them to do better as it would help the community overall if LMG can product accurate videos.

[VisibleXela]

Just now, Uttamattamakin said:

LTT is not little anymore, but a medium sized biz, can't afford to pay someone 1 million or 10 million or spend 500k to 1,000,000 or more fighting such things in court.  An ounce of legal prevention is worth a pound of cure in cases like this.  

A buddy of mine identified early on that LMG is a big company pretending to be a little one, maybe that's why the "jokey jokes" in the apology hit some people in the wrong place. LMG is not a scrappy underdog anymore, so it's harder to side with them when they pretend to be.

[Radium_Angel]

6 minutes ago, QuantumSingularity said:

Quantity replaced quality

And that's it in a nutshell really. It's killed bigger and better companies in the past.

[EchoBravo498]

Does anyone actually know if they lost floatplane subscribers over this? I saw someone posting this in the chat but didn't know if they were just trolling or not.

[Zaf9670]

20 minutes ago, slash-proc said:

That's narrow minded. I've also been a fan for many years at this point and one of LMG's selling points has been their legitimacy. That particular selling point is important to a lot of people and brings with it scrutiny when it appears to be eroding. We all want LMG to do well, don't get it twisted. What you and I care about is apparently not 100% aligned which is fine.

That's why I said "probably" since I don't know as well. There's never going to be a perfect apology but... misplaced ads, jokes, etc. are core to almost all the videos. Someone may have thought "we can't go full corporate on the response because our audience isn't corporate" or that's how I view it.

Do I think it helped? No. But it was at the target audience.