Gamers Nexus alleges LMG has insufficient ethics and integrity

[andreimj]

1 minute ago, Uttamattamakin said:

Interesting the manner in which you respond to being told that valid criticism exist, and that most of what I've seen here is valid.  People trust LTT for advice on one of the most important things they buy in this modern world.  People earn money with their computer, entertain, communicate, etc etc.  Reacting to that loss of trust can be toxic but it all wasn't.  

I love LTT's content as much as anyone.  Perhaps I am just trained to be really fair to those I like and don't like.   (Such is why I can't get on the bandwagons that make one popular online.  That's neither here nor there.)

 

This is definitely true but the solution isn't to create an alternate bandwagon that is all about LTT did nothing wrong.  They did.  They said so (mostly).  Criticism does not need to be toxic or an attack.  That's the problem.   There are dimensions of emotional maturity Linus would have that I would not, for example.  He's managed to be married.  I can't stand the idea of being unconscious next to anyone for 8 hours.    On the other hand I have been trained to criticize and grade people based on their work whether I like them or not, and learned how to take the valid criticism from within otherwise immature and invalid criticism.  For example "I can't stand to listen to someone talk math/science in science/math class for 2 hours, her explanations could be more broken down". 

He needs to work on taking criticism.  If it's all just dismissed as toxicity then nothing will change.  

I never said that I agree with Linus's emotional response. I fact I didn't. But this thing blew out of proportion and at somepoint it wasn't even about LTT anymore. This is what I am trying to point out

[Touch My Hamm]

People still here rabble-rousing...why? Look how some conversations aged:

 

On 8/14/2023 at 2:39 PM, Touch My Hamm said:

Every company can and should take criticism. Its about how you handle it and grow that is important. That is what is of note here its a criticism of LMG and there where points and arguments made. Making it public (said that video wasn't set for monitization and no sponsor) was for the benefit of LMG to help push their points and start a larger conversation.

On 8/14/2023 at 2:39 PM, Touch My Hamm said:

Both should be able to be criticized and can grow from it. This to me isnt some hit piece to create drama but instead a great learning opportunity to hear back from competitors in the same scene giving listing out their issues where LMG could build solutions.

 

It will be great to see the improvements made from these sorts of discussions. I for one love being part of those hot meetings internally at my company as you build out what is wrong and how do we improve.

 

[Saeumii]

36 minutes ago, ColonelSupremePizza said:

I never said there was malice, you are inferring that. Of course this is absolute and complete incompetence, but Linus KNEW what it was, his obligations, and should have stepped in to say that they couldn't sell it. There's no way in hell that they just randomly auctioned stuff without approval from people that absolutely would know that it should have been sent back.

 

Until malice is proven, this whole situation shows that he has an unbelievably incompetent, lazy, and irresponsible team imaginable, particularly given their valuation. Screw anyone not giving them absurd money for sponsorships, they don't care as long as their bottom line is their top priority.

accusing someone of knowingly doing something wrong seems like an accusation of malice. but this is all done and over with now. lmg made a formal response to gamer's nexus, and hopefully they set everything straight. they know they're under scrutiny now

[Karon]

2 minutes ago, andreimj said:

So you're saying that calling out the toxicity that infected this forum goes back to me. Outstanding logic

Stop making shit up. You talk about toxicity infecting this community while you yourself libel me. 

 

LMG is as much responsible for the toxicity of their proponents as GN is for theirs. (spoiler: they're both not responsible)

 

And held up a mirror and said that "your" side shares the same responsibility and your response is making shit up no one said. 

 

Anytime someone starts with "so you're saying that..." they can be immediately disregarded as toxic af. 

[Penpilot]

i agree with Steve on this one, just not specifically for LMG, but almost all of the tech press. a comment no one will read

[atxcyclist]

14 minutes ago, EchoBravo498 said:

Perhaps need more context around this particular statement from Steve. I actually am glad he didn't reach out. In this case he has personal relationships with folks at LMG that would undoubtedly affect his feelings on the situation. Also almost all of the stuff he commented on was public domain.

 

EDIT: also what info would Steve get that would have been helpful/useful for his story?

He would be sticking to his own standards reaching out. It doesn’t matter if he learns nothing from it, that was the process he’s been patting himself on the back for for years.

 

He visibly hitches a bit when saying he doesn’t have to reach-out, he knows that statement is just covering for what he’s said about that in the past. It’s an attempt to convince himself that was the right way to do it, even though it’s not his norm.

[andreimj]

5 minutes ago, MartinTheActor said:

There's a thing in psychology known as Parasocial Relationships. It's where one person extends interest, energy and emotion to another person (generally public facing personas) who is unaware and unreciprocating of that interest, energy and emotion. This phenomenon is what fuels the growth of Youtube channels and social media. Yet it's often entirely misunderstood by the public facing personas themselves. The weight of this on the public persona when made aware of it on a personal level can be devastating. It's led to unfair weight and pressure that can and has led to the suicides of public personas. 

Leaving aside your thoughts on Steve, the problem is that for any public-facing persona, the person behind them needs to go through a learning process where they effectively detatch and professionalise the public-facing aspects of their work. In short, whether he knew it or not, the dynamics created in pursuit of the career Linus chose, have led to the pressue and dogpiling. When there are fifteen million people all who bring the interest, energy, and emotion to bare...well that's naturally going to overwhelm anyone, even a team with hundreds of members.

Now I'm not forgiving anything on any side at all. But the harsh fact is that this isn't all on Steve. In fact, the 'our community have a say in what we do' is further feeding the parasocial dynamic between LMG and it's viewership. The best way to obliterate the parasocial dynamic is to switch to an older-fashioned broadcast model of detatchment between the veiwership and the creators. In short, the 'us vs them' is something that LMG fostered themselves through deepening and nurturing the parasocial dynamics. That's not to say they've brought it all on themselves, but what I'm saying is that the psychology of controversies like this are way more complex than I think you understand them to be. To conclude then...this may not be a problem that can be fixed. This may not be as simple as 'let's all clam down and be grown up about this'. LMG doesn't have a community, it has a viewship. It's close in size and scope to broadcast TV than it is to a small content creator. That has to factor into this discussion and commentators ought to be aware that, they are viewers, not community members. To believe otherwise is to be part of a massively unhealthy swathe of people who don't understand the dynamics at play. If a broadcast TV channel for example were to make these levels of error...the complaints would (and actually do) continue. LMG is far closer in size and scope to broadcast TV channel than a creator like Jay from Jayztwocents for example. That is why the complaints will keep coming. That is why the controversy keeps getting stoked. 

My view would actually be to sever the idea of community. Call us what we are - viewers. Don't foster the community attitude. It isn't helpful and isn't healthy.

i didn't say that it's all on him. I tryed to point out that he has blame (also). That's all. I didnt blame Steve for all of this.

[NullValid]

Just now, surrey_nerd said:

If some shitty benchmarking YouTuber with questionable morals takes shots at you when you’re videos have been full of lies and misinformation for over a year comes at you when you do verified work with receipts of course you are going to clap back. 

Yikes... 

[TakeTheL]

Linus just had to squeeze a “but muh personal attacks…” in his “taking full accountability” apology.

Dude runs on feelz.
 

also…

- Apology video is monetized.

 

- LTT/LMG merch staged on set.

 

- Links to merch in video description.

- CEO jokes about cutting to a sponsor, twice.

- Price of Billet Labs cooling block is posted (£2000) after BL specifically asked for them not to do so (It has since been blurred out in the footage).

 

- “69” reference (reinforcing Madison’s take on company culture).

 

I’m watching a colossal train wreck in slow motion.

 

[andreimj]

5 minutes ago, Karon said:

Stop making shit up. You talk about toxicity infecting this community while you yourself libel me. 

 

LMG is as much responsible for the toxicity of their proponents as GN is for theirs. (spoiler: they're both not responsible)

 

And held up a mirror and said that "your" side shares the same responsibility and your response is making shit up no one said. 

 

Anytime someone starts with "so you're saying that..." they can be immediately disregarded as toxic af. 

your disregard of common sense actually makes my point. Thanks

[Allen Copeland]

14 minutes ago, surrey_nerd said:

Billet has not say that lol Linus has also lied about his communications with them. 

I've seen the posts. Take time to look for them in this giant thread before calling someone a fan. This is their (Linus Tech Tips') community forum. The fact that you're calling someone a `fanboy` says you aren't here to use reason.

 

You're here to troll.

[dustypaws]

2 minutes ago, TakeTheL said:

Linus just had to squeeze a “but muh personal attacks…” in his “taking full accountability” apology.

Dude runs on feelz.
 

also…

- Apology video is monetized.

 

- LTT/LMG merch staged on set.

 

- Links to merch in video description.

- CEO jokes about cutting to a sponsor, twice.

- Price of Billet Labs cooling block is posted (£2000) after BL specifically asked for them not to do so (It has since been blurred out in the footage).

 

- “69” reference (reinforcing Madison’s take on company culture).

 

I’m watching a colossal train wreck in slow motion.

 

Do you have issues with feeling unheard or unseen IRL? Are you overcompensating? OTHERWISE I DON'T KNOW WTF THIS IS MEANT TO BE!!!11!!!!!1!1!

[Guest]

1 minute ago, TakeTheL said:

Linus just had to squeeze a “but muh personal attacks…” in his “taking full accountability” apology.

Dude runs on feelz.
 

also…

- Apology video is monetized.

 

- LTT/LMG merch staged on set.

 

- Links to merch in video description.

- CEO jokes about cutting to a sponsor, twice.

- Price of Billet Labs cooling block is posted (£2000) after BL specifically asked for them not to do so (It has since been blurred out in the footage).

 

- “69” reference (reinforcing Madison’s take on company culture).

 

I’m watching a colossal train wreck in slow motion.

 

Don't forget about squeezing the name of a certain sponsor into the last few seconds. Just disgusting.

[SimonShipperd]

5 minutes ago, Ajmal Zahir said:

Here is the post.
 

This was already addressed in the past. Blaming this on Linus is completely nuts, but I understand a grieving father. But the facts:

 

1. In the NCIX auction video, you can see that Linus wants to buy the silver play button.

2. Linus arrived to late and the button was already sold to the kid that owned MindChop.

3. Linus asked if he could buy it from him since it holds sentimental value to him.

4. The kid and his dad explain he never received the silver play button for his own channel.

5. The kid offers Linus to buy the play button and shows him his channel

6. The kid decides to sell to Linus, but Linus decides that the kid can keep it after seeing his channel

7.  Linus gives him a shout out for being so cool to offering to sell the button back to him

8. Linus gives the kid's channel a shout out in the video.

 

After this, some idiots with keyboards and to much time on their hands decided to harass the kid, even after Linus telling them to stop that idiotic behavior.

 

It annoys me that people keep bring up stuff like this, the wage discussions and union talk without presenting the facts as they actually are. Simply to frame Linus as a monster.

[Karon]

2 minutes ago, TakeTheL said:

Linus just had to squeeze a “but muh personal attacks…” in his “taking full accountability” apology.

Dude runs on feelz.
 

also…

- Apology video is monetized.

 

- LTT/LMG merch staged on set.

 

- Links to merch in video description.

- CEO jokes about cutting to a sponsor, twice.

- Price of Billet Labs cooling block is posted (£2000) after BL specifically asked for them not to do so (It has since been blurred out in the footage).

 

- “69” reference (reinforcing Madison’s take on company culture).

 

I’m watching a colossal train wreck in slow motion.

 

If there's one thing in this whole mess that I wholeheartedly believe in, then it's that Luke has nothing or barely anything to do with any of this. He's always been a voice of reason and never given me a reason to doubt that. 

[ImorallySourcedElectrons]

On 8/15/2023 at 3:08 PM, JiRoDev said:

Not quite, Metal is a graphics API used for rendering, so the result that matters is rendering performance, not how it did it, Apple's hardware work best with Apple's software, in this case Metal, so why discredit the FPS you get from a Metal app and credit something unsupported like Vulkan or OpenGL, windows uses DX12 as its best API so why not compare its performance with Apple's performance using its own best API which is Metal.

And how do you propose we benchmark this "rendering performance" without having multiple GPUs render the exact same scene? It's already iffy enough as it is with one graphics API and multiple GPUs, introduce multiple APIs and the benchmark is meaningless.

[Allen Copeland]

1 minute ago, TakeTheL said:

Linus just had to squeeze a “but muh personal attacks…” in his “taking full accountability” apology.
Dude runs on feelz.
 

also…

- Apology video is monetized.

- LTT/LMG merch staged on set.
- Links to merch in video description.

- CEO jokes about cutting to a sponsor, twice.

- Price of Billet Labs cooling block is posted (£2000) after BL specifically asked for them not to do so (It has since been blurred out in the footage).

- “69” reference (reinforcing Madison’s take on company culture).

 

I’m watching a colossal train wreck in slow motion.

Nothing of what you're saying says anything of value. LTT is a business. Businesses have rigor. You're calling out Linus for being human by having emotions. What's wrong with you?

[Karon]

5 minutes ago, andreimj said:

your disregard of common sense actually makes my point. Thanks

 

[TakeTheL]

2 minutes ago, dustypaws said:

Do you have issues with feeling unheard or unseen IRL? Are you overcompensating? OTHERWISE I DON'T KNOW WTF THIS IS MEANT TO BE!!!11!!!!!1!1!

Are you referencing the size of the font? If so, this is my 3rd post using an iPad and I left all settings at default.

[andreimj]

Just now, Karon said:

 

you're just another troll at this point. You have nothing else to add other than hate

[dustypaws]

2 minutes ago, TakeTheL said:

Are you referencing the size of the font? If so, this is my 3rd post using an iPad and I left all settings at default.

Yeah, the font size is really....too much

[m9x3mos]

22 minutes ago, surrey_nerd said:

No he didn’t lol

 

stop fanboying. 

Yes he did.

Still not fanboying.

But nice try trying to be insulting. Be better.

 

[eece_ret]

5 hours ago, IseeFractals said:

When part of the problem being highlighted is how Linus, specifically, handles any and all criticism what is that realistically going to accomplish?

The various "mistakes" present in a growing number of videos are publicly available. The billet situation was already shown to be ignored, they stated in the original "review" of the block that it was a "one of a kind prototype" and that "they wanted it back" and then it showed up for auction in other publicly available video's. They talked to billet, got the back round they needed through the email trail.

What happened after the callout video went live? Linus tried to do damage control. He went and responded to billets ignored emails at that point, immodestly said "we've agreed to compensate them, everything is good" even though he was the only party making that assessment, because he still hadn't talked to them. 

The reality is that "asking for comment" wasn't going to elicit anything useful, it's going to get the same excuses, justifications and deflections that always arise in these situations, and it's going to give Linus an opportunity to "get ahead of it" and trot out a:

"it was just an oversight, a communication breakdown, as soon as this was brought to my attention i personally reached out to billet labs before the GN video went live and everything is good, we're only human, we make mistakes, we're committed to doing better" 

which muddies the waters. It would result in a weakened position for GN for absolutely no gain, to themselves or the community. 

When part of the problem is people looking for a pound of flesh you get responses like this.

Why the community so incensed by this situation Ill never know its not like it was your water block.  Linus didn't make a video to swindle you into buying something, its YT Computer PC editorials people calm the F.

 

Pertaining to journalism as thats what Steve is purporting to be and standards he espuses to hold himself to.  Asking for comment is the proper path here.  Not asking for a comment for fear of " it's going to give Linus an opportunity to "get ahead of it" and trot out"  only demonstrates someone looking for blood and exercising gotchya "journalism".  Your writing and Steve methods demonstrate that pretty clearly, only reinforced by "It would result in a weakened position for GN for absolutely no gain".  Steve was not the harmed party in any way here.  He is a competitor to LMG, his only position should be that of reporter.  Again, you just looking for blood bro.

 

The REASON you ask for comment before publishing is so you can report both sides, the audience is smart enough (well sans present company...) to see through a business owner placating an audience when the harmed party is standing there with evidence to the contrary.  ie most of us are not that F'ing stupid or naïve to take placations at face value.  Billet Labs doesnt have their water block, LTT sold it... Cant really argue that its factual.   The audience can also evaluate a company that was dumb enough to send what is allegedly a super pricey one of a kind, business depends on it for survival  device to a MEDIA outlet with zero Terms and Conditions signed and agreed to PRIOR to discharge to said MEDIA outlet.  They only asked for it back after Linus dumped on it, which is telling in its own right.  I would not at all be surprised if their orginial plan was to leave it with LMG to get some additional free exposure.  When that exposure was not what they wanted they ask for it back.  At minumum they are dumb,  I don't know how dumb, but such stupidity is usually obfuscating motive.

To support this, you see, that once money is involved their story changes, now its not a one of a kind we cant survive without, but rather "Nevermind, dont want or need it, give us the dough to fund gen2.0 waterblock".    Thats pretty transparent and an obvious 180 degree change of course from how Steve presented the harm to BIllet Labs, and how Billet Labs characterized it on Reddit.  Its an obvious money grab to fund their activities, which is their prerogative, losing the equipment was LMG's mistake, now LMG gotta pay up.  Its really that simple.

 

Anecdotally pertaining to requests for comment from both sides.  A great example are local news stations picking up a story of some person getting screwed by a local business.  The reporter ALWAYS interviews (or attempts to interview) the business in question to address the concerns of the person getting screwed.  

Those interviews are usually the meat of the article to be honest as you see the business owner having to explain in real time the screw up.

 

Steve didnt do that, and people like you are cheering it on, pitchforks and torches in hand.  ITs gotchya journalism with little desire to inform the audience but rather trolling the audience to illicit a response.

 

Id like to see Steve eat his own dog food on this one review this waterblock and have an interview with both parties (LMG and B_L) and lets go from there.

 

 

 

 

[TakeTheL]

Just now, dustypaws said:

Yeah, the font size is really....too much

Apologies… I’ll dig into the settings.

[Pyrannha]

12 minutes ago, Ajmal Zahir said:

Here is the post.
 

I remember the video where Linus went to the NCIX auction to get the silver play button. The OG button with the NCIX name on it that he was the one making the videos for that he was the creator responsible for. That was literally HIS play button. Had it been me, I would have held fast on that stance but he had enough buttons from other channels and decided you know what, what happened to you sucked, keep it man, and moved on. That the community took a different stance says literally nothing about Linus or his company, he did literally the most right thing he could have. Got emotional at first and then said you know what, you deserve this, I have two. let me shout out your channel, take care man. how on EARTH is anything else that came after Linus's fault???