Intel designs an improved 12VHPWR Plug Connector

[Quackers101]

v2 p2, I can never understand weak designs before or after, for expensive items. like gaming chairs or other gaming stuff, so I guess it doesnt matter.

[Poinkachu]

37 minutes ago, Kisai said:

Honestly, they should bring back "thumb screw tension" for everything. We won't see it on GPU's because the space is already too tight, but realistically, that would have solved the user error potential by ensuring that the screw grounds the bottom of the screw shaft to signal it's been tightened. No signal, no power.

 

But that horse left the barn already, so we're going to be stuck with a generation of GPU's and PSU's that are potential fire hazards. 

 

Only if people care enough / not feeling hassled enough to actually screw them in.

[Brooksie359]

6 hours ago, Poinkachu said:

Well... there's always soldering the 12VHPWR side directly onto the PCB. But I doubt lot of users gonna like it, especially with how bulky & ugly those adapters are, which looks even uglier after some PSU manufacturers & Cablemod released their 12VHPWR.

 

There's also the method like old time VGA / DVI connector, having mounting screws on their side. Although based on my personal experience, I hardly ever seen someone uses them (the screws), especially after multiple times of replugging in a relatively short time.

 

I get your point, but yeah.... good design is only as good as the user who use the thing.

I mean, we can enclose a PC in a thick seamless metal box, but if someone is idiot enough they'll find ways to destroy it.

 

If someone moves their PC around so much there's possibility of stuffs dislodging, or if someone brings their PC to a new place, due dilligence is to check wether or not everything is fine before powering up.

 

If it's a kid, then their parents shouldn't let them mess with a dangerous thing. In fact, they shouldn't be let around potentially dangerous thing without supervision.

I mean, sensors or other mechanical safety measures can be defective, or break at some point.

 

As much as I want to put all the blame on companies the reality is :

At the end of the day, it is our own responsibility to check and/or research the things we or our loved ones are about to use so as not to cause grief / disaster. Or you know, to atleast minimize the chance of it happening.

Of course, vendor can design things to make it more convenient for users to spot mistakes / possible-future-disaster.

 

So no, I'm not saying it's all entirely user's fault, because like I've said before, 4090's shroud is quite well at hiding the terminal, making it harder to spot mistake.

Though I can't say it's fully companies fault either, because this is something that can be observed & checked without disassembly or extensive knowledge.

At the very least for this particular topic.

 

But yeah, idk, I've lived in a "jank & cheaping out" country for so long, that even if something is built truly idiotproof, I'd still research & do proper check and recheck as much as I can about it in the end.

Out of habbit, a bit paranoia, & some skepticism :x

I have moved my system multiple times and rarely ever spent time to check if everything was plugged in all of the way. Usually if it isn't plugged in correctly the thing will just not power up and then i look to see what the issue is. If there is no issue I don't bother. Also I think you are putting alot of emphasis on people knowing about everything they use which isn't practical. If I had to know about everything I use and what hazards they could possibly have I wouldn't have enough time in the day. I mean do you really expect someone to guess that if they don't plug something in all of the way it could start their computer on fire? I mean if the people who actually designed the thing weren't even aware of the issue how can you expect your average joe to know. 

[pas008]

 

 

 i am loving these comments

i been around when 4 pin molex would be causing issues (and there was alot) and even the 6 pin 8 pin and 8 pin cpu because people arent making sure they snug cant pull them out, geez if you can install cpu cooler and make sure its snug and not moving wouldnt you check a cable?

what was it like 50 cards reported to have had this done? i do understand its new connector and could be an issue though but was the adapter quality looked at also?

 

[Heliian]

Can't fix poor hand skills. 

 

There are thousands of better connectors on the market, all "too costly".  Doubt a different socket helps that much. 

[HenrySalayne]

12 hours ago, Kisai said:

Honestly, they should bring back "thumb screw tension" for everything. We won't see it on GPU's because the space is already too tight, but realistically, that would have solved the user error potential by ensuring that the screw grounds the bottom of the screw shaft to signal it's been tightened. No signal, no power.

So returning to a screw tensioning system is pointless. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

You only added a locking "indicator", which could also be a metal retention spring bridging a contact or a hall sensor and a magnet.

 

As simple as this seems, it adds another failure mode and probably causes more confusion among the uninitiated (the audience who would not plug the connector in all the way) than it helps.

 

If you really want to tackle this issue, set a power limit of 100W for all GPUs. The full GPU potential will unlock only after the user watched a mandatory video about the risks and how they can confirm the plug is fully seated. This is easy to implement and can be done retroactively for already sold / produced GPUs via the driver.

[mr moose]

20 hours ago, HenrySalayne said:

So returning to a screw tensioning system is pointless. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

You only added a locking "indicator", which could also be a metal retention spring bridging a contact or a hall sensor and a magnet.

 

As simple as this seems, it adds another failure mode and probably causes more confusion among the uninitiated (the audience who would not plug the connector in all the way) than it helps.

 

If you really want to tackle this issue, set a power limit of 100W for all GPUs. The full GPU potential will unlock only after the user watched a mandatory video about the risks and how they can confirm the plug is fully seated. This is easy to implement and can be done retroactively for already sold / produced GPUs via the driver.

you can make people watch a video, but you can't make them understand or learn anything. 

[Mark Kaine]

On 3/15/2023 at 12:33 PM, mr moose said:

you can make people watch a video, but you can't make them understand or learn anything. 

well if your video is good you actually can.

[leadeater]

3 hours ago, Mark Kaine said:

well if your video is good you actually can.

I have been forced to watch plenty of videos, some arguably good, and learned nothing haha. If I'm not being "receptive" then I'm likely going to retain none of the information. 

[HenrySalayne]

15 minutes ago, leadeater said:

I have been forced to watch plenty of videos, some arguably good, and learned nothing haha. If I'm not being "receptive" then I'm likely going to retain none of the information. 

Which doesn't really matter here. This is not an educational video but more of a reminder: "Have you checked if your 12VHWPR connector is seated correctly? Do it now or it might burn down your PC."

And some people will just ignore it, but it's another slice of cheese.

[Mark Kaine]

11 minutes ago, leadeater said:

I have been forced to watch plenty of videos, some arguably good, and learned nothing haha. If I'm not being "receptive" then I'm likely going to retain none of the information. 

yeah, yeah, but it works the other way around too, people can learn something... i think it depends if they're actually wanting to and are interested in the subject (and if they aren't why are they watching,  a video that tries to educate isn't really entertaining typically especially if someone doesn't care about the subject? )

 

i notice this sometimes with techmoan videos and comments like "but why?" ... i just assume these people only watched a few minutes tops and aren't really interested 

 

 

[leadeater]

15 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

yeah, yeah, but it works the other way around too, people can learn something... i think it depends if they're actually wanting to and are interested in the subject (and if they aren't why are they watching,  a video that tries to educate isn't really entertaining typically especially if someone doesn't care about the subject? )

 

i notice this sometimes with techmoan videos and comments like "but why?" ... i just assume these people only watched a few minutes tops and aren't really interested 

Was really more just a joke. I've been required to watch things like Health and Safety videos and I can say I certainly do not remember them at all  

[HenrySalayne]

5 minutes ago, leadeater said:

Was really more just a joke. I've been required to watch things like Health and Safety videos and I can say I certainly do not remember them at all  

I mean that's a valid point. What about gamification? A mini-game around plugging in the 12VHPWR connector fully until it clicks? Or you have to plug in the most 12VHPWR connectors in 30 seconds and then you have to go around and extinguish all the burning computers where you didn't plug it in correctly?

[Mark Kaine]

1 hour ago, leadeater said:

Was really more just a joke

yeah i thought so, just wanted to clarify,  just in case it was unclear. : p

[jagdtigger]

Still pointless though, put two EPS12V (the 8 pin variant) connector on the gpu and you get the same power (in reality more, 660W or so)...

[Kisai]

8 hours ago, HenrySalayne said:

Which doesn't really matter here. This is not an educational video but more of a reminder: "Have you checked if your 12VHWPR connector is seated correctly? Do it now or it might burn down your PC."

And some people will just ignore it, but it's another slice of cheese.

No, it definitely doesn't work.

 

My mom, who is not a tech person, had to dig out the VHS TAPE of the hot tub's instructions, because she of course has no idea how the hot tub actually works, cause she was only shown how to turn the thing on. And that tape was mostly marketing lingo.

 

Here's the thing, the thumb screw tensioners existed because those connectors had multiple pins that had to go in all the way for the device to work, especially the 25-pin connectors which would usually get yoinked out of the computer if someone tripped over it, and bend it. But no, instead if you screwed it in, you'd trip over it, and send the computer flying off the desk. The logic for EXTERNAL facing connectors changed to clips and spring-tension when hot-plugging wouldn't damage the device. However internal connectors never followed this logic, they were always pin-header designs with the most common being the PATA ribbon cable. Power never, ever, went over these ribbon connectors. They were always those 5V+12V molex designs, which were then replaced with SATA power cables that spead the same power over multiple pins in a standard location. But the PCIe Power connectors were still an evolution of the ATX power connector design, which had originally been 20, then 24, and then 24 + 4, or 24+8 for the high power CPU's. The logic has always been "add 4 more pins", but you risked having people plugging power connectors into the the wrong devices because they all look the same. Which is what happened when PSU's went modular.

 

So what should have been the correct evolution was something with thicker wires and either a threaded tensioner (eg like how DB-9/15/25 connectors) that closes a circuit between the screws to tell the GPU that it's been correctly installed, or a "ZIF" arm that actually pulls the connector in.

[jagdtigger]

13 minutes ago, Kisai said:

but you risked having people plugging power connectors into the the wrong devices

Yeah no, unless you are a jack@ss and used excessive force. (The only two you can mix up is the pcie and eps connectors, both are keyed differently. Same goes for the mudular PSUs i had so far, each cable type had a different "key".)

[HenrySalayne]

5 hours ago, Kisai said:

So what should have been the correct evolution was something with thicker wires and either a threaded tensioner (eg like how DB-9/15/25 connectors) that closes a circuit between the screws to tell the GPU that it's been correctly installed, or a "ZIF" arm that actually pulls the connector in.

The wires of the 12VHPWR connector are thick enough. Why would you waste material, if you don't have to?

And ZIF or screw tensioning mechanism are unsuitable. ZIF doesn't "pull" the connector in, it just clamps it down (so not fully inserted power leads will also start a fire).

And screw tensioning connectors will push your RMA quota to the moon. You think people unable to fully seat a simple plug will be able to fully thread two screws to make their GPU work? And not cross-thread anything? Absurd. These connectors are thankfully a thing of the past.

 

If you want to go through the hassle of replacing the 12VHPWR connector with something different, you should not replace it with something even worse.

[mr moose]

20 hours ago, Mark Kaine said:

well if your video is good you actually can.

In some cases they do, mostly when the recipient wants to learn, but if you force people sit through a video before they can turn on their GPU how many are actually going to pay any attention?  The sad reality is most humans are easily offended when you question their abilities at something as simple as pushing in a plug (warranted or not) and being told they have to watch something causes many to dig their heels in.   <- source, over a decade in education plus 6 years running a major production line (many times having to educate people how to put a screw in or why they need to wear safety glasses). 

 

As the old saying goes, you catch more flies with honey.  Or the modern spin of it which I prefer: The bee's don't waste their time telling flies why honey is better than shit.

 

 

[HenrySalayne]

7 minutes ago, mr moose said:

In some cases they do, mostly when the recipient wants to learn, but if you force people sit through a video before they can turn on their GPU how many are actually going to pay any attention?  The sad reality is most humans are easily offended when you question their abilities at something as simple as pushing in a plug (warranted or not) and being told they have to watch something causes many to dig their heels in.

"sit through a video"? How long do you think it will take to communicate "are you sure you plugged it in all the way?". 30 min? Or maybe a fully featured 90 min?

You have to install a driver and go through the setup process anyway. Which is unnecessarily convoluted already. I'd rather watch a small tutorial than being forced to share all my data with Nvidia to get automatic a notification for driver updates.

 

If you have a better idea for a retroactive 12VHPWR problem workaround, please share it.

[mr moose]

22 minutes ago, HenrySalayne said:

"sit through a video"? How long do you think it will take to communicate "are you sure you plugged it in all the way?". 30 min? Or maybe a fully featured 90 min?

Yep, reading majority of the comments on this forum people refuse to sit through a 5 sec ad let alone a 20 second "how to push in a plug because your a fuck wit and we have to tell you so" video.

22 minutes ago, HenrySalayne said:

You have to install a driver and go through the setup process anyway. Which is unnecessarily convoluted already. I'd rather watch a small tutorial than being forced to share all my data with Nvidia to get automatic a notification for driver updates.

You'll have to do both because NVIdia won't be fixing their shit anytime soon.

22 minutes ago, HenrySalayne said:

If you have a better idea for a retroactive 12VHPWR problem workaround, please share it.

Yep,  It only seems to be a problem for a small number of people,  just put a warning somewhere you can't miss, like the ones that tell you to fill your new generator with oil before you start it.    If people ignore it then that is on them.

[Mark Kaine]

ok so by itself this is pretty uninteresting and boring, its not exactly rocket surgery... (unless u ask NV) but does that mean intel plans to actually release high powered / high end cards instead if low / midrange?  that's the interesting part, right? 

[Kisai]

17 hours ago, HenrySalayne said:

The wires of the 12VHPWR connector are thick enough. Why would you waste material, if you don't have to?

And ZIF or screw tensioning mechanism are unsuitable. ZIF doesn't "pull" the connector in, it just clamps it down (so not fully inserted power leads will also start a fire).

And screw tensioning connectors will push your RMA quota to the moon. You think people unable to fully seat a simple plug will be able to fully thread two screws to make their GPU work? And not cross-thread anything? Absurd. These connectors are thankfully a thing of the past.

 

If you want to go through the hassle of replacing the 12VHPWR connector with something different, you should not replace it with something even worse.

Now you're just being pandentic.

 

There are solutions, none of them are going to happen because manufacturers would rather save 2 cents per connector than ensure they don't get 1000 RMA's a week.

[HenrySalayne]

5 hours ago, Kisai said:

manufacturers would rather save 2 cents per connector than ensure they don't get 1000 RMA's a week.

Not at all. It's exactly the opposite.

RMAs and any other form of costumer support are a waste of money (from a business perspective). You want to ship a product and never deal with it again. That's the "optimal" solution.

[starsmine]

13 hours ago, Kisai said:

Now you're just being pandentic.

 

There are solutions, none of them are going to happen because manufacturers would rather save 2 cents per connector than ensure they don't get 1000 RMA's a week.

lmao what. RMAs are some of the most expensive things for an OEM. Pay double shipping and force you to use actual man hours on a problem that is a one off? You practically lose your shirt and all the profit of 10 new sales.