Musk warns twitter may have to declare bankruptcy

[Arika]

4 hours ago, oali24 said:

are you saying that you agree with his reinstatement, not accusing you of anything, just genuinely curious.

I couldn't care less. I think he's a collosal idiot. But there are a lot of those still on twitter. I just don't follow them.

 

You know what i said to be labeled a trump supporter?

I replied to someone going mental over his unbannjng with "Well it's their platforms, their rules, right?".

 

The exact same thing people were saying whenever twitter did something that the same group of people agreed with that are now upset that it's owned by Elon.

 

You will notice those people have been very quiet

 

[Mark Kaine]

On 11/13/2022 at 7:36 PM, corrado33 said:

Says the person posting on a social media network. 

i always find it kinda weird when people say forums are "social media" when they're really more "bulletin boards"... sure it's somehow "social"  but generally they have a theme for topics that can be posted,  stricter rules and no such things as "sponsored posts" (for the most part, it kinda makes sense LTT has those, but that's an exception and it's also not random companies,  it's just LTT videos basically) 

 

Also people typically don't use forums to keep in contact with their family members or work environment like they do on "social media".

I also dont see anyone advertise their OF here...  

 

People use forums totally different than "social media" which is a much later construct,  and more like a live / blog than a "forum".

 

 

[oali24]

7 hours ago, Forbidden Wafer said:

If you are saying that this is the case, then why are you complaining Elon is banning people for breaking the new rules of the platform?

Breaking the law is a completely different matter, and it wasn't the case.

he's banning people completely arbitrarily and making up rules.

[Donut417]

12 minutes ago, oali24 said:

he's banning people completely arbitrarily and making up rules.

Well its his platform now and his right. Banning people is not against the law. He can make up what ever rules he wants. It doesnt change the fact he is a pecker head. Also he needs to ban those making fake official accounts, because thats going to get Twitter sued. I wouldn't be surprised if that Defense Contractor, the Drug Company  and Nintendo dont sue Twitter over that bullshit. 

 

Also I seen a post that says the copy right strike function no longer works AND people are posting copy righted material to Twitter. Under the DMCA they are REQUIRED to take that content down. If they dont, they legally can be sued. Considering the $1 BILLION judgment over COX for "Not doing enough" to stop piracy on their network, I dont see Twitter getting out of that lawsuit when they do absolutely NOTHING. 

[Forbidden Wafer]

18 minutes ago, oali24 said:

he's banning people completely arbitrarily and making up rules.

Just like the Twitter and all other social networks/companies do.

Change rules as you go and apply them arbitrarily (e.g. Paypal stealing a ton of money if they don't agree with what you post elsewhere).

The only difference is the ownership.

[Mark Kaine]

18 minutes ago, oali24 said:

he's banning people completely arbitrarily and making up rules.

i thought he's gonna be all "free speech, yo"... what happened? 

[oali24]

2 hours ago, Forbidden Wafer said:

Just like the Twitter and all other social networks/companies do.

Change rules as you go and apply them arbitrarily (e.g. Paypal stealing a ton of money if they don't agree with what you post elsewhere).

The only difference is the ownership.

could you give evidence of twitter arbitrarily and not in line with any rules in the tos before, and no the comedian impersonating musk was not in violation of rules by any reasonable interperatation.

[RoseLuck462]

I have a twitter account from 2009 with apparently 260 posts.

 

Its just something I don’t care about it.

 

I don’t like the interface either.

 

I understand the hysteria only in the aspect that people are being fired from a job. Otherwise I don’t see the problem importance of the platform itself.

[ravenshrike]

3 hours ago, oali24 said:

he's banning people completely arbitrarily

Citation needed. Note the ban against parody unless CLEARLY marked was always in Twitter TOS.

[wanderingfool2]

38 minutes ago, oali24 said:

could you give evidence of twitter arbitrarily and not in line with any rules in the tos before, and no the comedian impersonating musk was not in violation of rules by any reasonable interperatation.

Let's see, they used Musks current image, they changed their name to Elon Musk (no mention of parody in the name).  In the name of the game where most people only view the tweet itself, yea it violates for impersonation.

 

8 hours ago, Kisai said:

Don't confuse devil's advocacy for "i'm digging in my heels because I know I'm wrong, but I want to see how much rope this person wants to hang themselves with", again there are people on this forum who lack the self-awareness that this is a tech forum, it's not 4chan, and acting like a child gets them treated like a child. 

Your first literal post followed by your other posts you called him "Elmo" on purpose.

 

9 hours ago, Kisai said:

As opposed to Musk demanding people "grind" now. Sounds to me that there was a better work-life balance before.

I've address this before.  From a company perspective yes it's better, I've also given my perspective that there are a lot of people who literally clock in 9-5 and do the minimal amounts and expect to be treated like gods at the workplace.  Like honestly, if a company is losing money it should be offering free lunches, and should give an additional 4% of days off on top of the vacation days they give.

 

9 hours ago, Kisai said:

Clearly there was a problem of prioritization, or not enough over-lapping staff to manage moderation, but to say "wow 7000 people sat on their ass and did nothing" is likely untrue. There are things I did at the auction site, that I wrote my own automation tools for, and despite that, "that was not good enough" because it's always the human element that is slow, the part where you have to actually investigate things, and not simply click a box that says "take this down"

It's the juxtaposition being made, the fact that so many people and news outlets were saying no is there to moderate and that it's going to be a free-for all and that issues will come up because he fired them...yet in a month he has eliminated a major sticking point in regards to moderating that (and yet with those 7000 ones they weren't able to deal with it before)

 

The lack of action wasn't about prioritization, or over-lapping staff.

 

9 hours ago, Kisai said:

Nobody on this forum seems to understand finances, so I've let people talk out their behind about it. None of you know know how any of this works. Those "loans" are how you buy, merge, or sell a company. Elon doesn't go write a 44 billion dollar check to mr.twitter and mr.twitter hands over the keys. This is not a house or car mortgage, this is debt financing, and every company has "debt", and not all debt is bad. It can be to ones advantage to secure a low-interest debt payment financing when interest rates are low, which is what the entire real estate and investment sector does. 

And yet this is a thread about bankruptcy.  My hole point is that in this thread so far there has been people just throwing around stuff that tries implying idiocy of Musk, yet so many of the things being thrown around are things that are easily up for debate in regards to the reason.

 

8 hours ago, HenrySalayne said:

Clearly? We only see the things moderators missed, not the stuff they fished out. You can't conclude that there was a problem with prioritization without knowing the other part of the story.

You can actually conclude the ineptness of their moderation policy just by looking at the site before.  I mentioned it in a prior thread about Twitter, but I've reported multiple tweets before.  Some of them including clearly illegal things that no one would second guess that it should be removed...and yet it took them over 2 weeks to remove it.  One of the reasons, they didn't have a category for reporting illegal content.  There literally is a case where a homeland security agent had to tell Twitter to remove a tweet, this is after a boy sent his ID proving his age and he was the subject in an illegal tweet (and they told him to contact their local police), and after a police officer contacted Twitter they still didn't remove it.

 

There has been multiple researchers who have pointed out how they could easily find predators profiles, and yet Twitter wasn't doing anything to remove them from the platform.

 

You only get to that level of incompetence when you have alternative motives (like not tanking your mDAU), or the moderation skills are beyond terrible.  [Remember, this is the company that somehow managed to block the NYP article]

[oali24]

25 minutes ago, ravenshrike said:

Citation needed. Note the ban against parody unless CLEARLY marked was always in Twitter TOS.

the profile just needs context, parody does not need to be explicitly marked, thats just what Musk decided arbitrarily after taking down people's accounts.

[wanderingfool2]

1 minute ago, oali24 said:

the profile just needs context, parody does not need to be explicitly marked, thats just what Musk decided arbitrarily after taking down people's accounts.

"LESS LIKELY TO".  Notice how they talk about using another image.  The profile include that of the name.

 

 

9 hours ago, Kisai said:

As opposed to Musk demanding people "grind" now. Sounds to me that there was a better work-life balance before.

Oh, to add to what I said, aside from the fact that it weeds out the slackers...a perfect example is the "CSE" reporting.  The former Head of Consumer Design claims they were working on the report feature for CSE since Dec 2021...the CSE reporting appearing on the front page, which was activated a week ago, too this person 10+ months to get implemented.  Literally a reporting option that they had hidden away through multiple clicks before...it took 10+ months to get implemented

 

Yea, some people's work life balance might be thrown off, but there appears to be more than enough people who are willing to take up that offer.  Lots of people who are passionate about their jobs tend to do that...which leads me back to the whole getting employees who actually care/like what they are doing. [Which builds a really good workplace culture]

[mr moose]

Hey guys, it's pretty fucking simple, if you can;t allow your enemy and people you hate to have the same platform to voice their opinions then you shouldn't either.  The basic premise of freedom, it applies to everyone not just those you agree with.

 

If you can't handle trump having an account and telling people to inject bleach or whatever dumb thing he said then cancel your account and find a rock to play with.

 

I hate the guy but I'll defend his right to the same voice as any of his opponents.  Because when that doesn't happen you LOSE!

 

 

 

 

[HenrySalayne]

2 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Hey guys, it's pretty fucking simple, if you can;t allow your enemy and people you hate to have the same platform to voice their opinions then you shouldn't either.  The basic premise of freedom, it applies to everyone not just those you agree with.

What a stupid thing to say. There are limits to free speech. Someone rallying for violence would be one of those limits.

If everyone can just say what they want, you hand this world to demagogues.

[oali24]

6 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Hey guys, it's pretty fucking simple, if you can;t allow your enemy and people you hate to have the same platform to voice their opinions then you shouldn't either.  The basic premise of freedom, it applies to everyone not just those you agree with.

 

If you can't handle trump having an account and telling people to inject bleach or whatever dumb thing he said then cancel your account and find a rock to play with.

 

I hate the guy but I'll defend his right to the same voice as any of his opponents.  Because when that doesn't happen you LOSE!

 

 

 

 

what if ISIL was putting propaganda on twitter (I'm not trying to say trump=ISIS, I'm just legitimately curious what the line is here)?

[mr moose]

27 minutes ago, HenrySalayne said:

What a stupid thing to say. There are limits to free speech. Someone rallying for violence would be one of those limits.

If everyone can just say what they want, you hand this world to demagogues.

Did trump say something Illegal or insight violence,  I only heard him tell people to do the opposite.

 

EDIT: and the stupid thing here is not what I am saying, but the fact that these "limits to free speech" only seem to apply to one side of politics.  I dare say you would have a completely different outlook on this if they not only banned your preferred political parties leader but also told everyone he was lying during an election.

 

EDIT2: And just an example, if Trump wants to claim the elections are rigged, then he deserves the right for that opinion to be heard, then people can demand evidence for themselves and judge him accordingly.

 

 

27 minutes ago, oali24 said:

what if ISIL was putting propaganda on twitter (I'm not trying to say trump=ISIS, I'm just legitimately curious what the line is here)?

 

What if they were? I am sure you can understand the difference between terrorists inciting violence and a political leader voicing uncomfortable opinions.  

 

 

[mr moose]

10 hours ago, Kisai said:

, again there are people on this forum who lack the self-awareness that this is a tech forum, it's not 4chan, and acting like a child gets them treated like a child.

 

Interesting considering your opening lines on anything musk is usually to call him "elmo" and then you wonder why people treat you like a child? 

 

When people use these terms:

 

Mon$anto

M$

Elmo

Nvidiot

 

ETC,

 

Majority of people know straight away that any argument that follows is driven by emotion, lacks rational depth and likely is just repeated garbage they heard on the internet.

 

I fucking hate elon musk,  but not for the reasons you may think and those reasons are not relevant to this discussion, that is why I am not against him here.

[Arika]

48 minutes ago, HenrySalayne said:

If everyone can just say what they want, you hand this world to demagogues.

Spoiler: someone not being on twitter doesn't mean they can't speak.

 

Do you honestly think the people that get banned of these platforms go: "huh, you know what? maybe i was wrong, i'm going to change my world view"

no, they  go somewhere else, they find other like-minded people and create toxic echo chambers, they don't just disappear.

 

4chan has existed since 2003 an there is some pretty heinous shit on there, the world still functions normally, sure it may not be as popular as twitter, but it still has 22 million unique monthly visitors

[HenrySalayne]

27 minutes ago, mr moose said:

Did trump say something Illegal or insight violence,  I only heard him tell people to do the opposite.

 

EDIT: and the stupid thing here is not what I am saying, but the fact that these "limits to free speech" only seem to apply to one side of politics.  I dare say you would have a completely different outlook on this if they not only banned your preferred political parties leader but also told everyone he was lying during an election.

 

EDIT2: And just an example, if Trump wants to claim the elections are rigged, then he deserves the right for that opinion to be heard, then people can demand evidence for themselves and judge him accordingly.

You see, I just called your statement stupid in general (because it is). I did not mention Trump.

The fact that you turned it into a "Trump this" and "Trump that" just shows that it wasn't about free speech in the first place.

 

16 minutes ago, Arika S said:

Do you honestly think the people that get banned of these platforms go: "huh, you know what? maybe i was wrong, i'm going to change my world view"

no, they  go somewhere else, they find other like-minded people and create toxic echo chambers

 

4chan has existed since 2003 an there is some pretty heinous shit on there, the world still functions normally, sure it may not be as popular as twitter, but it still has 22 million unique monthly visitors

And your argument is what exactly?

[Arika]

4 minutes ago, HenrySalayne said:

And your argument is what exactly?

If you can't understand my reply in the context of what i quoted from you, i cannot help you.

[mr moose]

8 minutes ago, HenrySalayne said:

You see, I just called your statement stupid in general (because it is). I did not mention Trump.

The fact that you turned it into a "Trump this" and "Trump that" just shows that it wasn't about free speech in the first place.

 

And your argument is what exactly?

People who don't understand math think it is stupid, people who don't understand science think it is stupid,  calling something stupid is just an easy way to pretend we understand things that we don't.  If you don't know why it is dangerous to ban people from public forums then you really don't understand the problem. 

 

[HenrySalayne]

26 minutes ago, Arika S said:

If you can't understand my reply in the context of what i quoted from you, i cannot help you.

What is this? The kindergarten group "ladybug"?

How hard can it be to condense some gibberish into the actual point one is trying to make?

 

 

30 minutes ago, mr moose said:

If you don't know why it is dangerous to ban people from public forums then you really don't understand the problem.

Oh, now it's dangerous! It was only "really unfair" 4 posts ago...

1 hour ago, mr moose said:

Hey guys, it's pretty fucking simple, if you can;t allow your enemy and people you hate to have the same platform to voice their opinions then you shouldn't either.  The basic premise of freedom, it applies to everyone not just those you agree with.

 

[mr moose]

8 minutes ago, HenrySalayne said:

 

How hard can it be to condense some gibberish into the actual point one is trying to make?

 

Apparently not hard at all, you've just done it.

[BetteBalterZen]

On 11/13/2022 at 6:53 PM, emosun said:

what will we do without twitter.........

Perfect comment

[Spotty]

Thread locked. This has long since departed from the original topic of Twitter's financial issues in to much more general arguments over Musk and Twitter.