Botherations, You’ll need a Microsoft account to set up future versions of Windows 11 Pro

[RejZoR]

36 minutes ago, darknessblade said:

 

You really think they are gonna do that?

If they are gonna do that, all Anti trust regulators in the Entire EU will crack down on it, forcing Microsoft to revert that "decision".

As it is a Monopolistic decision, that will be instantly shut down.

--

Just like i expect them to crack down om Microsoft forcing users to use a MS account to use their PC.

Making Microsoft Revert that "feature" For EU consumers.

--

 

And if you start claiming, its their platform Their choice.

 

I refer to 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BrowserChoice.eu

 

Just like with Internet explorer the EU can and will enforce rules to crack down on monopolistic behavior.

---

And if Microsoft does not obey the EU, they can say goodbye to their Tax haven.

 

Subscription based system, maybe, but not the whole account thing. I don't see any basis to kill off the accounts thing through legal means.

[darknessblade]

4 minutes ago, RejZoR said:

Subscription based system, maybe, but not the whole account thing. I don't see any basis to kill off the accounts thing through legal means.

1 of the MAIN legal reasons would be due privacy concerns.

 

Which Facebook is being blasted about. as they want to store all userdata, on servers in the USA.

---

And since using a MS account on a Local PC, it automatically translates them having personalized userdata. instead of anonymized data. [from PC's without any MS account linked]

---

 

Microsoft would also need to explain to the EU government why having a account linked to a OS for a PC/Laptop, that did not require one for DECADES, would be a good thing/A key feature for it to work properly.

 

Which they do not have, other than them wanting to collect more userdata.

[CTR640]

And people are wondering why I still use Windows 7.

[suicidalfranco]

15 hours ago, RejZoR said:

Wait, suddenly all the whining about monopoly doesn't apply here, yet you all apply it to Apple with their 17% global market share whose products are actually entirely theirs through and through where Microsoft's only thing is the OS and nothing else. Hm. Consistency isn't yo lot's best trait isn't it?

Spoiler

wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooosssssssssssssssssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

 

[Bombastinator]

*laughs and goes to the apple page again*

[WhitetailAni]

On 2/17/2022 at 3:33 PM, starsmine said:

Businesses dont use pro, they use Enterprise edition. 

My school uses Pro and no MS accounts because W10. I don't know much about Windows in managed mode but I imagine some places are gonna throw a fit at this.

[Bombastinator]

7 hours ago, CTR640 said:

And people are wondering why I still use Windows 7.

The problem with 7 is it can’t do it’s own security anymore.  It’s got to be behind a firewall from another device, and then the security is only as good as that firewall.  One thought is win7 running inside a Linux virtual machine I guess.  I don’t know if that would work or not.  Might depend on how the whole thing is set up.

[jagdtigger]

3 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

 It’s got to be behind a firewall from another device, and then the security is only as good as that firewall.

Not really, any firewall with a default drop rule on the wan side will suffice, the main concern is between the chair and the keyboard...

[AlTech]

On 2/18/2022 at 1:48 PM, GoodBytes said:

I am confused... most people complaining here, I am sure, if I spent the time, I can find a post saying that will switch to Linux... why haven't they?

There are many reasons. Here are just a few:

• They tried to switch before and they tried to do this the Linus and Luke way
• They need to use a program that only works on Windows
• They want to play games that don't run on Linux
• They aren't ready to switch yet because of any number of personal or technical reasons
• They don't know what Linux distro to choose

On 2/18/2022 at 1:48 PM, GoodBytes said:

To me, this is a non issue. You need a Microsoft linked account to do most things.

Such as?

 

The only OS level thing I've used a Microsoft account for in the past besides logging in (when I did so voluntarily a number of years ago) is the Windows store and OneDrive when I used to use it.

 

Office isn't included in Windows (price wise and installation wise), Skype requires a separate subscription and is separate from the OS, and the same is true of Teams as Skype.

On 2/18/2022 at 1:48 PM, GoodBytes said:

To me it makes life easier for IT support to people, when reinstall are required.

So most users should bend over backwards for IT support people? If this is how a company wants to design an operating system then I, and likely many other people, will want no part of it.

On 2/18/2022 at 1:48 PM, GoodBytes said:

If Bitlocker is enabled for some reason, they don't need to hunt for the recovery code (which you can bet ignore to do the backup),

Then those people can choose to use an MS account.

On 2/18/2022 at 1:48 PM, GoodBytes said:

bookmark/favorites are sync

Not everbody uses Edge nor should they be forced to.

On 2/18/2022 at 1:48 PM, GoodBytes said:

Plus, you need an account to use the Store in any case.

Only because they forced it. It didn't used to be this way for free apps in the Windows Store but now it doesn't let you bypass the account requirement.

 

To many people this isn't a good reason to require logging into the OS with their MS Account.

 

Also, what about people with password managers? I have no idea what my MS account password is because my password manager has it stored and I can copy the password anytime I need from the app running on the OS. There's no way to copy paste it if you can't get into the OS.

On 2/18/2022 at 1:48 PM, GoodBytes said:

I am just surprised... people have 0 problem making Google/Apple account (which you can also use for MS account) for their phone (which I reminded you, does automatic backup of all your contacts to their service), Chrome web browser, YouTube, Steam, Epic game store, and the such. But, for their PC, it is the end of the world!!!!

Well yeah, an operating system is sacred territory. People want to have control over the OS they use and the login requirement is: a nuisance, completely unnecessary, and privacy invasive.

 

Your comparisons are far different to the Windows example. People are willing to sign in to services that provide them with a value that can only be provided by signing in.

 

An operating system should not require an online account to function. Most people disagree with your position on this issue.

On 2/18/2022 at 1:48 PM, GoodBytes said:

Google can track my online activity even in incognito mode, see who I call/message, how often I do, read my SMS/MMS, access to my contact...  That is all ok with you guys.

People who have a problem with it find and use alternatives.

 

I for instance use LineageOS with microG. Some people have the mistaken belief that Apple is better and will use Apple instead. (Apple is better if your only two options are stock Android with GApps and IOS).

On 2/18/2022 at 1:48 PM, GoodBytes said:

Easy to make mass profiles, associate you with what your friends like to know more about you.. all good. But Microsoft might know what app you have installed if acquired through the Store.. Too much info right there...

They know every app you open and what time you open it. I would suggest they collect nearly as much or as much data as Google does about Android app usage and Android usage in general.

On 2/18/2022 at 1:48 PM, GoodBytes said:

So switch to Linux then, and make link your account their instead. All fine there.

Linux distros don't requite online accounts.

 

The screenshot you show allows you to connect accounts so that installed apps can use them but they are by no means required.

On 2/18/2022 at 1:48 PM, GoodBytes said:

 

 

Microsoft is going/pushing password-less (All Win11 OEM laptops have Windows Hello), and sync between systems, and easy getting setup for new computers and reinstall's, to get started as soon as possible. Simple as that. 

That's not a good reason to force everybody to signin with an MS account.

[jagdtigger]

1 hour ago, AluminiumTech said:

The screenshot you show allows you to connect accounts so that installed apps can use them but they are by no means required.

Not to mention unlike windows using nextcloud is an option there in which case you get the benefit of two worlds. Synchronization without the fear some 3rd party could look at anything.

[CTR640]

8 hours ago, Bombastinator said:

The problem with 7 is it can’t do it’s own security anymore.  It’s got to be behind a firewall from another device, and then the security is only as good as that firewall.  One thought is win7 running inside a Linux virtual machine I guess.  I don’t know if that would work or not.  Might depend on how the whole thing is set up.

I'm very well aware about the limitations. I have MalwareBytes Premium and it blocks websites if malware is detected or anything and .exe files. And I don't pirate games or searching to vaguely websites for keys generators and so and anything like that. I've been running this same Windows7 since March 2014 and I've never had serious problem with security. I'm cautious and I only use this system intended for my home use cases.

[Kisai]

On 2/17/2022 at 10:21 AM, RejZoR said:

 If they'll enforce this crap I'll seriously go with Linux full on.

You won't. You'll come back. They always come back /s

 

This is the same thing people have been saying since Windows 98. It never changes. Proton is not a solution, it's a bandaid.

 

Anyway, as much as I disagree with SaaS nonsense, the two prime reasons to object to any kind of Cloud-linked things is that:

1) Internet access is not everywhere

and

2) Internet access is not the same everywhere.

 

Like if I had to live off my mobile phone for a week in Canada, I'd have to keep finding open WiFi access points to update the damn OS on the phone, never mind a laptop.  Now it doesn't take much of an exaggeration to see how people who are already close to the poverty line might not have the luxury to pay for more than a 1GB phone plan, and can't afford a fixed internet connection of any kind (because here in Canada you can't get one for less than $60/mo now, and that only gets you internet speeds from 2006.) You also can't usually navigate to the open wifi portal without a web browser, thus creating a catch-22 situation if you can't install/setup the OS without WiFi, but can't access a free/paid WiFi service because the portal requires a click-through agreement not to be a dick.

 

 

[jagdtigger]

7 minutes ago, Kisai said:

Proton is not a solution, it's a bandaid.

Bandaid is what ppl do to make 10/11 somewhat tolerable, proton offers a solution to get rid the core of the problem (windows itself).....

[RejZoR]

20 minutes ago, Kisai said:

You won't. You'll come back. They always come back /s

 

This is the same thing people have been saying since Windows 98. It never changes. Proton is not a solution, it's a bandaid.

 

Anyway, as much as I disagree with SaaS nonsense, the two prime reasons to object to any kind of Cloud-linked things is that:

1) Internet access is not everywhere

and

2) Internet access is not the same everywhere.

 

Like if I had to live off my mobile phone for a week in Canada, I'd have to keep finding open WiFi access points to update the damn OS on the phone, never mind a laptop.  Now it doesn't take much of an exaggeration to see how people who are already close to the poverty line might not have the luxury to pay for more than a 1GB phone plan, and can't afford a fixed internet connection of any kind (because here in Canada you can't get one for less than $60/mo now, and that only gets you internet speeds from 2006.) You also can't usually navigate to the open wifi portal without a web browser, thus creating a catch-22 situation if you can't install/setup the OS without WiFi, but can't access a free/paid WiFi service because the portal requires a click-through agreement not to be a dick.

 

 

For 2 devices I can guarantee you I would not as I've tested Manjaro on them and they work great, I just kinda stick with Windows because I have licenses for them so why not. 2 laptops primarily used for Youtube and web browsing. I even replaced one touch netbook with ultrabook so gone is screen rotation issues that plague Linux and wonky touch registration when screen is rotated. Which was the only reason why I didn't use it.

 

Gaming PC, a much tougher thing. Not only I play older games a lot which have issues running well on Windows itself in a lot of cases (massive backlogs are a bitch to chew through and GOG nostalgia is sometimes difficult to resist lol), I also almost religiously use ReShade to spice up game visuals which is Windows only thing. There, I frankly don't have much of a choice which is why I'm so damn annoyed by this forced crap. Because I don't need ANY of the account nonsense. Literally NONE of it.

 

There are just so many better ways to recommend usage of account where it doesn't have to be mandatory. Like showing it every time for first opening of related app. Like showing benefits of account when installing Windows. And then when you open Edge for the first time. And when you open OneDrive for the first time. And when you open Windows Store for the first time. And present it with "If you have an account, you only have to login once" or something like that. You're not forcing people and if you stick with really doing it just once, then it's not a massive annoyance either.Assuming one even runs those apps in the first place. What Microsoft is doing screams desperation and it's frigging annoying.

[FeIIex]

As someone who refurbished PCs, it is difficult enough when nearly all of our donated PCs do not meet the minimum specifications for Windows 11.. But now once we are forced to start using it in 2025, we need to have our clients set up microsoft accounts? ;(

 

The PCs we send out go to people who are less technically inclined and children, so not having security updates is a no go.

[Kisai]

2 hours ago, jagdtigger said:

Bandaid is what ppl do to make 10/11 somewhat tolerable, proton offers a solution to get rid the core of the problem (windows itself).....

You don't put bandaids over puncture wounds.

 

The problem is that developers do not care about Linux. Even people who want to use Linux won't develop games for Linux because Linux has no API's to develop against. You're stuck with whatever broken OpenGL or Vulkan drivers exist, the rest goes through a software emulation layer, and then don't even get started on sound which has no standard what-so-ever, and every 2 years someone comes out with yet-another-one.

 

If you build a native Linux application, it's broken faster than Windows. At least most 32-bit Windows applications going back to 1994 can be coerced into working on Windows 7/8/10/11. Some however require emulating the older version of DirectX primarily because the older version would have tried to switch the screen to 640x480x256color mode and hasn't been possible to do so since XP.  For example Final Fantasy 11, which came out the same time Windows XP MCE came out, only operates full screen. DXWnd ends up being a solution for DX1-7 games. It doesn't fix things like depreciated network or music API's.

 

[jagdtigger]

Just now, Kisai said:

You don't put bandaids over puncture wounds.

So what? Just grin and bear it while dismissing everything like you do claiming "its just a bandaid and not a real solution"? Take the easiest route and stuck our hand into the sand?

 

6 minutes ago, Kisai said:

Linux has no API's to develop agains

Wont even bother debunking this, 5 sec google if you need any proof why that is BS.

 

8 minutes ago, Kisai said:

If you build a native Linux application, it's broken faster than Windows.

Considering the amount of clutter and junk in windows that is highly questionable.

[AndreiArgeanu]

So if Windows 11 for whatever doesn't detect your network of Wi-Fi card you just simply can't use Windows? And what about education and enterprise? They don't need to set up a Microsoft account. Does Windows 11 enterprise even need an account?

[GoodBytes]

2 hours ago, FeIIex said:

As someone who refurbished PCs, it is difficult enough when nearly all of our donated PCs do not meet the minimum specifications for Windows 11.. But now once we are forced to start using it in 2025, we need to have our clients set up microsoft accounts? ;(

No. You go in Audit Mode.

In the OOBE screen (the screen where you setup account, network, etc.), just hit Ctrl+Shift+F3

This will make Windows generate a temporary Admin account and login to it.

 

From there, you have full Windows account experience. This mode is designed to setup a system.

You can install the system drivers, software and some account settings set will be set as default for future account creation, activate Windows, update the system.

(and yes you can restart the system, it drop you back in that account for you to resume what you need to do)

 

Basically, this is how OEMs setup systems. You go through the same process (then they image the drive and mass deploy it on their system as they come out)

 

Once done, on the dialog box that will always show when you go in this account: (or you can open it at anytime by opening the Run dialog box, and enter: sysprep)

 

Just pick "Shutdown" under the "Shutdown Options", and pick "OK"

 

Then you are ready to give the system to someone. That person will turn on the system, and it will be like they bought a new computer in the store. They'll get the OOBE screens, make their account, and ready to go.

 

I should make a tutorial on that on this forum. I think many don't know about this mode which existed in Windows since ages)

 

 

[GoodBytes]

2 minutes ago, AndreiArgeanu said:

So if Windows 11 for whatever doesn't detect your network of Wi-Fi card you just simply can't use Windows? And what about education and enterprise? They don't need to set up a Microsoft account. Does Windows 11 enterprise even need an account?

You can go under Audit mode, and set up the system there.

Enterprise aren't affected by this, as the system is domain joined.

Education aren't affected by this. Also, more and more school uses Azure AD, so student accounts are already there (goes hand in hand with student Office 365 free subscription, if I am not mistaken)

 

Only Home and Pro editions

[Kisai]

1 hour ago, jagdtigger said:

So what? Just grin and bear it while dismissing everything like you do claiming "its just a bandaid and not a real solution"? Take the easiest route and stuck our hand into the sand?

Because Linux has never been a solution for the desktop.  Gawd, we've had this topic show up every month and still people seem to think that you can just swap grandma's windows PC with Linux and she wouldn't notice.

 

1 hour ago, jagdtigger said:

Wont even bother debunking this, 5 sec google if you need any proof why that is BS.

There is no XAudio2 for Linux. There is no equivalent. This is the damn unicorn on that platform. You know what makes it worse? Spatial Audio, HRTF. 

 

 

1 hour ago, jagdtigger said:

Considering the amount of clutter and junk in windows that is highly questionable.

Again, the reason developers don't build games for Linux:

- Native Linux API's suck, aren't available on all flavors of Linux

- If you don't develop for Unity, you basically have no option on Linux. Unity's the only game engine that works on Linux, and even then, many of those indie developers, don't know how to build anything on Linux. 

- Even if you develop against SDL2, that's still a bandaid. SDL2 is not "an API on top of native API's" It's a middleware that attempts it's best effort to make games developed using DirectX/Game Console API's be portable to other platforms. If you develop a game native to on SDL, you still have all the platform-specific API crap to work. If you port a game from say, the Nintendo Switch to PC, SDL2 is a better option than trying to find a developer for each platform.

 

It's a catch-22. Mainstream (AAA) Linux games do not exist. They do not exist because developing for Linux is awful when your development tools and middleware are on Windows or OSX. It also works in the other way around. If you develop an indie game on Linux, it's a horrible pain in the ass to port it to Windows for the exact same reason, and good luck getting it on the Nintendo eShop. 

 

[PocketNerd]

30 minutes ago, Kisai said:

 

- If you don't develop for Unity, you basically have no option on Linux. 

 

*Godot has entered the chat*

 

I've actually had a better experience developing with Godot on Linux than I have on Unity.

[FeIIex]

1 hour ago, GoodBytes said:

No. You go in Audit Mode.

I've used audit mode to create base images for our WDS a bunch of times, but was unaware of the ability for the system to remember what I had put onto there after the image is created (never did go through the installation process afterwards).  Good to know that we have a reasonable solution for the future, thanks for sharing!

[GoodBytes]

So, cleaned install the latest insider build, and the option is still there. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest -Senku-]

2 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

So, cleaned install the latest insider build, and the option is still there. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Having no internet used to work as well, i guess that trick pissed them off, but i just did it it the way you showed in images, atleast when testing in vm's