Questions about headphones and dac/amp

[Allena]

Hello. I’m really new when it comes to professional audio. I’ve always googled “best gaming headset” and bought one of those. I have a lot of questions, some of which might seem dumb. First of all, I have to find decent headphones. I’ve seen a lot bad and good about dt 990 pro. I’m completely open to any other headphones, but that’s the headphone I’ve seen the most about, on reviews and streamers. This is what I think is complicated, dac and amplifier. From what I’ve read, those are the only other hardware I need for the headphones. As I’m mainly focused on gaming, do I need one with built in virtual sound, or can I use software for that? It feels like it’s the most simple to get something that’s both a dac and amp in one device. Will that affect the sound anyway? Does anyone have any recommendations for headphones and dac/amps? I have a budget of like $250-300, a little more if it’s needed. I have read the pinned post on this thread, but I feel like writing here won’t hurt anyone. I’m also kinda dumb, so answer to this like you’re talking to a 10 year old. Sorry if it hurts your head answering my dumb questions. Thank you for your time!

[WereCat]

Virtual surround is a stupid gimmick, just stick with stereo... Yes, you can hear directional audio just from stereo when using headphones. 

 

Get AMP if your onboard audio can't drive the headphones to sufficient level. 

Get DAC if your onboard audio is causing noise in your headphones.

 

Don't use front panel audio on the case, use the output on the motherboard. 

[Allena]

18 minutes ago, WereCat said:

Virtual surround is a stupid gimmick, just stick with stereo... Yes, you can hear directional audio just from stereo when using headphones. 

 

Get AMP if your onboard audio can't drive the headphones to sufficient level. 

Get DAC if your onboard audio is causing noise in your headphones.

 

Don't use front panel audio on the case, use the output on the motherboard. 

Would it be easiest to buy a usb dac and amp together when I’m buying the headphones? That way, I’m guaranteed that it will work. Is there any sound difference between a usb one and a sound card you put in your pc?

[WereCat]

27 minutes ago, Allena said:

Would it be easiest to buy a usb dac and amp together when I’m buying the headphones? That way, I’m guaranteed that it will work. Is there any sound difference between a usb one and a sound card you put in your pc?

Get external one (so USB) to reduce the risk of EMI noise.

I use SMSL M6 Mini DAC (which is AMP and DAC in one) to drive my HD650 and I had it for years now. Was around 120eur at the time, I don't have any issues.

[saintlouisbagels]

1 hour ago, Allena said:

This is what I think is complicated, dac and amplifier.

Nah, DAC and (headphone) amplifier are the simplest components that have become snake oil. Like charging $1000 for a $5 HDMI cable.

All "soundcards" are a DAC/amp. All headphone ports are connected to a DAC/amp. The DAC converts the digital signal into an analog signal. You can't hear 1's and 0's. The amplifier then brings that analog signal to a listenable volume.

 

If you're in the USA, then the $9 Apple USB-C (or Lightning) to headphone dongle (DAC/amp) is the best audiophile product ever made.

 

1 hour ago, Allena said:

do I need one with built in virtual sound, or can I use software for that?

Absolutely not. Virtual surround is a gimmick. An unaltered stereo track is all that should be used.

 

1 hour ago, Allena said:

Does anyone have any recommendations for headphones and dac/amps?

It depends on what you need the DAC/amp to do. I think the best reason to have a DAC/amp is to have a volume knob.

- I use the Apple dongle for my main setup because I wear earbuds/headphones.

- The Schiit Magni is an incredible headphone amplifier deal at $59. It has RCA outputs for controlling speaker volume. Use your Desktop PC's Line Out from the rear.

https://www.schiit.com/products/magni-plus

- JDS Labs sells Atom Amp+ and Atom Amp 2 if you want more power (you don't). It has 2 inputs if you need it. Nicer box/construction.

https://jdslabs.com/product/atom-amp-2/

- FiiO K11 is a gorgeous newish DAC/amp. USB input to the computer. Or if your TV is your main display and all of your devices are routed through it, then you can use the optical output from the TV to the K11's input.

https://www.amazon.com/FiiO-K11-Headphone-Amplifier-Balanced/dp/B0CJFG3DC7/

 

[Allena]

12 minutes ago, saintlouisbagels said:

Nah, DAC and (headphone) amplifier are the simplest components that have become snake oil. Like charging $1000 for a $5 HDMI cable.

All "soundcards" are a DAC/amp. All headphone ports are connected to a DAC/amp. The DAC converts the digital signal into an analog signal. You can't hear 1's and 0's. The amplifier then brings that analog signal to a listenable volume.

 

If you're in the USA, then the $9 Apple USB-C (or Lightning) to headphone dongle (DAC/amp) is the best audiophile product ever made.

 

Absolutely not. Virtual surround is a gimmick. An unaltered stereo track is all that should be used.

 

It depends on what you need the DAC/amp to do. I think the best reason to have a DAC/amp is to have a volume knob.

- I use the Apple dongle for my main setup because I wear earbuds/headphones.

- The Schiit Magni is an incredible headphone amplifier deal at $59. It has RCA outputs for controlling speaker volume. Use your Desktop PC's Line Out from the rear.

https://www.schiit.com/products/magni-plus

- JDS Labs sells Atom Amp+ and Atom Amp 2 if you want more power (you don't). It has 2 inputs if you need it. Nicer box/construction.

https://jdslabs.com/product/atom-amp-2/

- FiiO K11 is a gorgeous newish DAC/amp. USB input to the computer. Or if your TV is your main display and all of your devices are routed through it, then you can use the optical output from the TV to the K11's input.

https://www.amazon.com/FiiO-K11-Headphone-Amplifier-Balanced/dp/B0CJFG3DC7/

 

Thank you so much for the information! So it just goes headphones > dac > pc? Do I do anything after that, is there any software I need, or do I need to change any equalizer? And I was looking at Fosi K5 Pro, it’s around $60 in my country. Do you think that would be good, or should I spend some extra money for potentially better sound?

[Cocococo]

30 minutes ago, Allena said:

Thank you so much for the information! So it just goes headphones > dac > pc? Do I do anything after that, is there any software I need, or do I need to change any equalizer? And I was looking at Fosi K5 Pro, it’s around $60 in my country. Do you think that would be good, or should I spend some extra money for potentially better sound?

Only Fosi product i'd buy is the DS1, i haven't seen any other praise for Fosi products, but honestly below 300usd you're better off saving DAC money and buying better headphones, FiiO FT3, Sennheiser HD600/650/6xx and Audio Technica R70X, they all run fine off an apple dongle (the Audio Technicas struggle a little bit) but the FiiO's are prolly the best 300usd headphones you can buy at the moment.  

[rice guru]

The 990 is a great headphone for stuff like gaming and general use. The reviews are correct it is quite sharp. If your not used to it or expect it it can be really bad especially if you have sensitive ears unlike me. It also needs power to sound controlled power costs a bit extra. If you just want something good for the money and is easy to drive I default to reccomending the beyerdynamic tygr. Has most of the strengths of the dt990 and less of its problems it's easy to power and is really good for the price for mixed use.  It's also usually cheaper than the 990. 

[Allena]

3 hours ago, rice guru said:

The 990 is a great headphone for stuff like gaming and general use. The reviews are correct it is quite sharp. If your not used to it or expect it it can be really bad especially if you have sensitive ears unlike me. It also needs power to sound controlled power costs a bit extra. If you just want something good for the money and is easy to drive I default to reccomending the beyerdynamic tygr. Has most of the strengths of the dt990 and less of its problems it's easy to power and is really good for the price for mixed use.  It's also usually cheaper than the 990. 

I looked at the Beyerdynamic TYGR, and it’s more expensive than the DT 990 Pro. I’ve read around and found a DAC that got some decent reviews. It’s the iFi ZEN Air DAC, and it’s around $100 where I live. Do you or anyone know enough about it to say if it’s good enough?

[Cocococo]

3 hours ago, Allena said:

I looked at the Beyerdynamic TYGR, and it’s more expensive than the DT 990 Pro. I’ve read around and found a DAC that got some decent reviews. It’s the iFi ZEN Air DAC, and it’s around $100 where I live. Do you or anyone know enough about it to say if it’s good enough?

iFi Zen is very overpriced compared to something like a Schiit Modi and Magni DAC/AMP stack or a JDS Labs Atom DAC/AMP, the only advantage the Zen has is the EQ adjustment, and if you want EQ adjustment then the Qudelix 5k is infinitely better than any desktop amp in its price range. The Qudelix is about as expensive as you should go for headphone DAC/AMPs though, it's more than capable of powering the most stubborn of Audeze's planar magnetic headphones, so something like a Sennheiser HD6XX or Audio Technica R70X (both are so much better than a Beyerdynamic DT990) is absolutely no problem to power. 

[Tigerleon]

4 hours ago, Allena said:

I looked at the Beyerdynamic TYGR, and it’s more expensive than the DT 990 Pro. I’ve read around and found a DAC that got some decent reviews. It’s the iFi ZEN Air DAC, and it’s around $100 where I live. Do you or anyone know enough about it to say if it’s good enough?

Tygrs are great. A DAC/amp combo would suit you the best I think.

[pas008]

On 5/14/2024 at 4:24 PM, WereCat said:

Virtual surround is a stupid gimmick, just stick with stereo... Yes, you can hear directional audio just from stereo when using headphones. 

 

Get AMP if your onboard audio can't drive the headphones to sufficient level. 

Get DAC if your onboard audio is causing noise in your headphones.

 

Don't use front panel audio on the case, use the output on the motherboard. 

 

On 5/14/2024 at 5:41 PM, saintlouisbagels said:

Nah, DAC and (headphone) amplifier are the simplest components that have become snake oil. Like charging $1000 for a $5 HDMI cable.

All "soundcards" are a DAC/amp. All headphone ports are connected to a DAC/amp. The DAC converts the digital signal into an analog signal. You can't hear 1's and 0's. The amplifier then brings that analog signal to a listenable volume.

 

If you're in the USA, then the $9 Apple USB-C (or Lightning) to headphone dongle (DAC/amp) is the best audiophile product ever made.

 

Absolutely not. Virtual surround is a gimmick. An unaltered stereo track is all that should be used.

 

It depends on what you need the DAC/amp to do. I think the best reason to have a DAC/amp is to have a volume knob.

- I use the Apple dongle for my main setup because I wear earbuds/headphones.

- The Schiit Magni is an incredible headphone amplifier deal at $59. It has RCA outputs for controlling speaker volume. Use your Desktop PC's Line Out from the rear.

https://www.schiit.com/products/magni-plus

- JDS Labs sells Atom Amp+ and Atom Amp 2 if you want more power (you don't). It has 2 inputs if you need it. Nicer box/construction.

https://jdslabs.com/product/atom-amp-2/

- FiiO K11 is a gorgeous newish DAC/amp. USB input to the computer. Or if your TV is your main display and all of your devices are routed through it, then you can use the optical output from the TV to the K11's input.

https://www.amazon.com/FiiO-K11-Headphone-Amplifier-Balanced/dp/B0CJFG3DC7/

 

Great advice but virtual sound isn't a gimmick

many games lack immersive sound 

Many vss change the sound

And sound is very subjective why can't vss lol

All are digital and algorithms lol that change the sound

So how is it a gimmick?

 

Try hesuvi and tell me there isn't a difference lol

[saintlouisbagels]

1 hour ago, pas008 said:

Great advice but virtual sound isn't a gimmick

It seems there are many definitions of gimmick and some of them seem to contradict other definitions...? But this is commonly how people use it

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/gimmick

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/gimmick

"something that is not serious or of real value that is used to attract people's attention or interest temporarily, especially to make them buy something"

 

Virtual Sound Surround is very literally a gimmick that alters tracks to wow the user. It's like turning up the Saturation to 100 and turning on the Soap Opera effect so that big box sellers can sell televisions.

 

There's nothing wrong if you like it, but that doesn't change things.

This doesn't mean there aren't good gimmicks - the glasses-less 3D on the Nintendo 3DS was very cool.

Hell, I occasionally turn on the Soap Opera effect to watch anime.

 

1 hour ago, pas008 said:

many games lack immersive sound 

If a game sounds poor in its unaltered stereo, I cannot imagine how screwing around with its depth will make it sound any more interesting with virtual surround. I also cannot even think of a game that has poor sound - video games sounds and music are like a million times more immersive than television and movies.

 

1 hour ago, pas008 said:

Many vss change the sound

And sound is very subjective why can't vss lol

No one here is arguing that it does not change the sound.

I don't understand what point you're making with this second line

 

1 hour ago, pas008 said:

All are digital and algorithms lol that change the sound

I still don't understand the point you're making. Are you confused by what a DAC is?

The digital information still needs to be converted to analog or else you cannot hear it.

Speakers and headphones... you are hearing analog.

 

1 hour ago, pas008 said:

Try hesuvi and tell me there isn't a difference lol

No one is claiming there is no difference.