framework laptop funding

[RONOTHAN##]

Even then, they're still going to be making money or driving more sales figures to their website. If they're going to continue reviewing laptops (which they're not going to stop), there is always going to be the thought in the back of my head and I'm sure a lot of other people that any criticism of it is to make sure he makes more money. Nothing against him, but I (and most people who watch his videos) don't know him personally, so I cannot vouch for his integrity first hand. I may be 99% sure that everything he says is true, but that 1% will always be nagging my decision. The only real way that they can do this is if they outfit their entire staff with Framework laptops and do content based around having that, which will help increase sales for them, but remain unsponsored to make sure that everything he says is 100% unbiased. 

 

I will say, I do hope that Framework succeeds, I'm highly considering flipping my current laptop and getting one of theirs. If they can get a backer from another source, from someone not a reviewer but still in the tech space (Louis Rossmann, Steve Wozniak, some big Twitch streamer, etc.), I'd be all for it, and if I weren't in college I might do it myself. I just can't think there's a way that someone trying to deliver an impartial review can be invested in a company that they are responsible for reviewing. 

[Firesand]

Since I am not in business how does an increase in sales figures help him?

 

Also I didn't make it clear, but I was thinking along the lines of their special edition products. Where they only do one run of the product, so there is no long term collaboration.

[RONOTHAN##]

1 minute ago, Firesand said:

Since I am not in business how does an increase in sales figures help him?

 

Also I didn't make it clear, but I was thinking along the lines of their special edition products. Where they only do one run of the product, so there is no long term collaboration.

it's still being promoted and driving more people to LTTStore.com. The more people that are driven there, there more likely they are to buy something else WITH the special edition Framework laptop. It's not as bad a degree as if Linus himself was investing in it, but he still stands to make something if you go to buy a Framework laptop

[nster]

I think the conflict of interest is really high, don't be an investor. Be a prominent spokesperson, help them with your contacts, advertise them at a discount, help them with merchandise, fundraise, anything you do with them, make sure it is at a loss, even by a bit. I wouldn't want to see your laptop reviews, if there is any issue at all with framework, it would just feel so weird

[SorryBella]

3 minutes ago, nster said:

I think the conflict of interest is really high, don't be an investor.

We are really living in the world where investor is always gonna be demonized even if they genuinely love the product that a company makes. Linus is very much in a Catch-22 problem, and the best course of action is very much to keep talking about Frame.work as a spokeperson.

[nster]

1 minute ago, SorryClaire said:

We are really living in the world where investor is always gonna be demonized even if they genuinely love the product that a company makes. Linus is very much in a Catch-22 problem, and the best course of action is very much to keep talking about Frame.work as a spokesperson.

Agreed, if he wants to help, give them your time, your expertise, discounts

[Firesand]

2 hours ago, RONOTHAN## said:

it's still being promoted and driving more people to LTTStore.com. The more people that are driven there, there more likely they are to buy something else WITH the special edition Framework laptop. It's not as bad a degree as if Linus himself was investing in it, but he still stands to make something if you go to buy a Framework laptop

I'm not talking about framework designing a laptop and selling it at LTTstore, I'm suggesting Linus's team helping them design some merchandise and sell it from LTTstore. Where it will be advertised on Linustechtips channel, so the majority of customers are already people who have bought from him already.

2 hours ago, nster said:

I think the conflict of interest is really high, don't be an investor. Be a prominent spokesperson, help them with your contacts, advertise them at a discount, help them with merchandise, fundraise, anything you do with them, make sure it is at a loss, even by a bit. I wouldn't want to see your laptop reviews, if there is any issue at all with framework, it would just feel so weird

Is this not what I am suggesting? Having his team help with design(mostly talking about shirts here), getting access to his contacts in manufacturing, and being able to sell them from an online store without the usual mark-ups that other online retail stores charge.

[RONOTHAN##]

1 minute ago, Firesand said:

I'm not talking about framework designing a laptop and selling it at LTTstore, I'm suggesting Linus's team helping them design some merchandise and sell it from LTTstore. Where it will be advertised on Linustechtips channel, so the majority of customers are already people who have bought from him already.

It's still their brand and there will still need to be a back end deal in order to do this. 

5 minutes ago, Firesand said:

Is this not what I am suggesting? Having his team help with design(mostly talking about shirts here), getting access to his contacts in manufacturing, and being able to sell them from an online store without the usual mark-ups that other online retail stores charge.

It's not. The moment they start selling something for them is when it becomes a conflict of interest. 

[SGNJ]

Seems to me the best way for Linus, or LMG to support the broader goals of serviceability and ecological responsibility in hardware design would be to mobilize the audience. For example, they could spin off a company specifically designed to promote responsible tech through investment. Something similar to what Legion M does for entertainment. LMG could seed enough to get it off the ground, solicit audience investment, and determine where to invest via shareholder voting.

[Bombastinator]

2 minutes ago, SGNJ said:

Seems to me the best way for Linus, or LMG to support the broader goals of serviceability and ecological responsibility in hardware design would be to mobilize the audience. For example, they could spin off a company specifically designed to promote responsible tech through investment. Something similar to what Legion M does for entertainment. LMG could seed enough to get it off the ground, solicit audience investment, and determine where to invest via shareholder voting.

Might already be something like that.  I don’t know.  Investment companies generally take astounding amounts of capital to start up though. I don’t remember what the definition of a “small business” is.  it seems to vary a lot. I vaguely recall one possibly out of date definition used by one system as being a business with under 150 employees though, making LTT an extremely small business by that definition. 

[LogicalDrm]

14 hours ago, Firesand said:

I just finished catching up with my youtube videos and saw that Linus was looking for ideas to give financial help to Framework without investing in them. My idea is that he can hire out his merch staff (at cost) to Framework to make some custom merchandise for them, which they can then sell on LTTstore (at cost).

Merged to previous thread. No need to have multiple threads on this subject (look before posting next time).

[GDRRiley]

20 hours ago, mariushm said:

I personally wouldn't invest in it, simply because I don't like that it uses type c inside the slots and that it probably relies on proprietary / intel centric stuff for the modularity, and some stickers and standardization of screws don't make it a great product.

I doubt it relies on custom Intel stuff. What else could they have used that wouldn’t have been custom from themselves? 

20 hours ago, mariushm said:

 and you spend $19 on a tiny pcb with two usb connectors in a plastic cartridge (nintendo gameboy / nes anyone? plastic waste

20$ for that may seam steep but the connectors on each end aren’t pennies and what did you want them to make it out of? I’d rather have plastic than a wasteful take a cube of metal and CNC it all out like apple does 

20 hours ago, mariushm said:

I assume the laptop also uses thunderbolt to support displayport over type c, or something specific Intel, so they couldn't really do something AMD just as easy.

 

Also, you almost always need to have one usb type c for charging, so you don't really get 4 slots, you get 3 slots.

And? Did you want them do a fixed USB-C for charging only? 

20 hours ago, mariushm said:

Then you almost always need at least a type a for a mouse or a usb stick and you're down to 2 slots.

Now you're left with two slots to use, most likely one will go to a monitor output and the other personally I'd use for ethernet but no such module.

You don’t always need a type A

and the point is you get pick what you want. 

20 hours ago, mariushm said:

Why isn't the audio headphone + microphone on a slot if they want to be modular, they could fit an analogue audio jack so they could have fit some usb type c on the side, maybe a displayport... so that you could actually use the slots for addons.

I’m sure someone will make a custom audio card for it. 
So you wanted more fixed ports? That wasn’t the goal

20 hours ago, mariushm said:

Also... there's kensington locks or a reason ... have fun getting your modules stolen or pulled as pranks , because I don't see being able to lock them (even if with something as simple as an optional m2 screw or something like that... have fun getting water accidentally in the slots.

Yes a Kingston slot would be nice. 
not sure how they could do it other than a screw accessible only with the bottom cover off 

 

I can’t see these any easier to get water in than any other laptop 

[mariushm]

6 minutes ago, GDRRiley said:

I doubt it relies on custom Intel stuff. What else could they have used that wouldn’t have been custom from themselves? 

The displayport through usb-c relies on intel chipset and intel integrated graphics and possibly thunderbolt. Same for HDMI. I admit I'm not sure about it, maybe I'm wrong.  But how many AMD systems have you seen that support displayport out through usb?

They probably can't make a Ryzen version because Intel would drag their feet approving/certifying the implementation, if they manage to get one working.

6 minutes ago, GDRRiley said:

20$ for that may seam steep but the connectors on each end aren’t pennies and what did you want them to make it out of? I’d rather have plastic than a wasteful take a cube of metal and CNC it all out like apple does 

And? Did you want them do a fixed USB-C for charging only? 

 

Yes, the absolute basics should be there. One fixed usb type c for charging, maybe displayport out (so they don't have to pay hdmi licenses unless you buy the module, but i don't think they bother). Then they could have as many modules on the sides as they want.

 

For example, instead of usb type c,  use a M.2 slot or something similar to M.2... have up to 4 pci-e lanes in slot, and usb pins. Make the modules less wide, so you can fit more of them on each side. Doesn't have to be m.2 2280 long, could be just m.2 2230

The laptop can be shipped with 4 empty modules which are just the back cover and the locking mechanism (could be a screw or could be a one/two sliding bits that lock the module into the slot (you have to squeeze the slides to release, or unscrew a screw to release)

Make the slot almost the width of a M.2 device instead of wasting so much horizontal space.

 

Now your extensions can either have one usb, or can use 1-4 pci-e lanes to put a extra usb controller with 2 usb c 10g for example, or you can put up to 4-6 m.2 storage or as many modules are there (if there's not enough pci-e lanes, maybe you can have switches to switch from m.2 x4 to m.2 x2 as needed.

 

The downside is that you lose the "almost instant" / on the fly pull out / replace modules because you'd want to shut down before inserting modules ... but I have my doubts that it will really work fine to just pull out displayport and hdmi connectors while the operating system runs.

 

 

[Freakwise]

5 minutes ago, mariushm said:

But how many AMD systems have you seen that support displayport out through usb?

There's some, not sure how many but i think it was less than 10 or something if i count myself, one of them is the asus strix advantage 

[The_russian]

8 minutes ago, mariushm said:

Yes, the absolute basics should be there. One fixed usb type c for charging, maybe displayport out (so they don't have to pay hdmi licenses unless you buy the module, but i don't think they bother). Then they could have as many modules on the sides as they want.

What if you prefer the charging or display port on one side over the other? Also once the laptop is charged, with swappable port modules you can remove the TypeC module and replace it with another one if you need a port other than TypeC, with fixed ports the TypeC will always be a TypeC.

 

17 minutes ago, mariushm said:

For example, instead of usb type c,  use a M.2 slot or something similar to M.2

I don’t think the rated number of connect/disconnect cycles for M.2 is anywhere near USB TypeC, that’s pretty important for something that is designed to be swapped relatively frequently compared to for example an SSD inside a laptop/computer. 

 

19 minutes ago, mariushm said:

Make the modules less wide, so you can fit more of them on each side.

I’m sure they thought of that, something tells me it’s a little more complicated than just “make the modules less wide” though. It’s more beneficial for them to make them narrower as you said, you would be able to fit more of them which could lead to them selling more modules, as well as less cost on materials. I’m guessing there’s a technical reason they are as wide as they are. Though I certainly agree it would be nice if they were narrower.

22 minutes ago, mariushm said:

The downside is that you lose the "almost instant" / on the fly pull out / replace modules because you'd want to shut down before inserting modules ... but I have my doubts that it will really work fine to just pull out displayport and hdmi connectors while the operating system runs.

That’s a big downside to external swappable ports, having to turn the computer off each time you want to change a module would be annoying. I’ve used usb to hdmi adapters before, there was no problem with connecting/disconnecting them while the computer was on. Why would you think there would be? These aren’t hard drives we are talking about.

[Firesand]

1 hour ago, LogicalDrm said:

Merged to previous thread. No need to have multiple threads on this subject (look before posting next time).

I did see the previous thread, and how it got toxic and moved off topic, that is why I started a new one.

[LogicalDrm]

Just now, Firesand said:

I did see the previous thread, and how it got toxic and moved off topic, that is why I started a new one.

If you see that, please report it. Moderation will handle the rest.

[CatXice]

So only just got round to watching WAN show were he talks about investing into framework best idea I think is your dont need to invest 10k into the company just straight up go and buy 10k worth of there laptops for your own use in LMG or use them as give away prizes?

 

Then your helping them with money but what i think is the best way you can help them is advertising for them by putting there products into the hands of people and or small companies as i think in company is were this product will shine.

 

ie your a sysadmin with 1000's laptops to support having a 1000 frameworks would be a wholleeee lot easier with repairs and things so advertising and putting them into the hands of people who will go out and buy more will have more affect then LMG giving them a lump of cash.

 

also if LMG give massive support and drum up sales from them someone with a massive cash stack can stick a whole lot of money into them more then LMG could which would work out for them better.

 

also if you invest into every single company that runs on the same morals then it stands to reason that your supporting this idea not this brand if you get what i mean which helps more then just framework

 

[Intrexin]

I just watched the WAN show, I always do but never catch them live and have watched LTT for a long time. 

 

As somebody who is pro right to repair, I really like the Framework laptop. It's legit what right to repair is all about AND the biggest deal it was a completive viable product at a attractive price point.

 

The only thing to bring them right down is the question are they going to around in 5 years to be able to upgrade things like the CPU/battery/screen. 

 

Linus combining his magic powers of being a living meme with their hardware just made me think boy I wonder who will play Luke when they make a movie about the beginning of the LinusTop Empire haha.

 

Linus having been very vocal about his morals about sponsor spots and just honest in general for all these years through thousands of videos, I think having the moral clauses and he will pull out and it will be very public breakup just will build consumer confidence and be one of two things that will make it in the bag the company will stick around and succeed.

 

The second thing that will make it in the bag LinusFrame will succeed is....the meme of every single time a laptop is near Linus he will make it a meme to disclose hes affiliated with this way more awesome laptop company. I mean other YouTubers plug lttstore.com all the time now. In the techtube space the reviews all the others. I mean if you can get a Tesla logo lasered on one on it you know a big channel like MKHB would review it. Give a pink one to iJustine as a Sorry for Jeopardy. Just would blow other laptops YouTube coverage out of the water. 

 

But handoff or make a seperate laptop review channel, Alex does alot of them now anyways and he does good. Alex/James combo in a recent video worked well.

 

Also theres difference between a review and a fun sponsor spot. Like when you have used sponsors laptops in scrapyard wars, I don't think there's any issue as long as you drop the meme I own a awesome laptop company disclosure.

 

I do think with the LapLinus merging, Linus would keep things that could get whacky on track like io swap card thingys and force things like a really good Ethernet, thunderbolt ect. Also I don't think there's anyway if Linus was involved with them he wouldnt forcefully suggest make some way to hook a big honking gpu to it.....or 6. And prolly make a HTPC out it. 

 

It is a big risk for LTT YouTube. But for Right to Repair and just being exactly the kind of company I really want badly to buy a laptop from I can see it could be a real fairy tale of a success story.

 

I was all for The Wall because it was fun and insane but tossing that money towards Framework is a much better crazy and fun idea. Also it's putting your money where you mouth is, Linus has done alot of being real about issues some of these products have. 

[LAwLz]

14 hours ago, CatXice said:

So only just got round to watching WAN show were he talks about investing into framework best idea I think is your dont need to invest 10k into the company just straight up go and buy 10k worth of there laptops for your own use in LMG or use them as give away prizes?

You're assuming Framework already has the capital to produce 10K worth of laptops which might not be the case. If LMG ordered 10K of laptops they could just make the situation worse. 

 

14 hours ago, CatXice said:

ie your a sysadmin with 1000's laptops to support having a 1000 frameworks would be a wholleeee lot easier with repairs and things so advertising and putting them into the hands of people who will go out and buy more will have more affect then LMG giving them a lump of cash.

That's not how sysadmins at large companies work. They don't sit and repair laptops by hand all day. Also, enterprise laptops are already fairly easy to repair. 

The framework laptop is a lot less special than people think when you compare them to for example an HP Elitebook.

[Helpful Tech Witch]

18 minutes ago, LAwLz said:

You're assuming Framework already has the capital to produce 10K worth of laptops which might not be the case. If LMG ordered 10K of laptops they could just make the situation worse. 

I’d assume they do, 10k worth of 1000$ laptops is 10 laptops

[Lurick]

Just now, HelpfulTechWizard said:

I’d assume they do, 10k worth of 1000$ laptops is 10 laptops

10K of something is 10,000 of that thing. He's talking about 10,000 laptops not $10,000 worth of laptops.

[Helpful Tech Witch]

25 minutes ago, Lurick said:

10K of something is 10,000 of that thing. He's talking about 10,000 laptops not $10,000 worth of laptops.

He said 10k worth of laptops so I assumed cost not number of that item

[LogicalDrm]

19 hours ago, CatXice said:

So only just got round to watching WAN show were he talks about investing into framework best idea I think is your dont need to invest 10k into the company just straight up go and buy 10k worth of there laptops for your own use in LMG or use them as give away prizes?

 

Then your helping them with money but what i think is the best way you can help them is advertising for them by putting there products into the hands of people and or small companies as i think in company is were this product will shine.

 

ie your a sysadmin with 1000's laptops to support having a 1000 frameworks would be a wholleeee lot easier with repairs and things so advertising and putting them into the hands of people who will go out and buy more will have more affect then LMG giving them a lump of cash.

 

also if LMG give massive support and drum up sales from them someone with a massive cash stack can stick a whole lot of money into them more then LMG could which would work out for them better.

 

also if you invest into every single company that runs on the same morals then it stands to reason that your supporting this idea not this brand if you get what i mean which helps more then just framework

 

Merged to existing thread.

[RejZoR]

Linus could provide them exposure lol.