Next version of Windows event... Windows 11 -> Ended

[GoodBytes]

Just now, Hakemon said:

I'd honestly rather switch to Linux than deal with all of that.  (About the only thing holding me to Windows is drivers and games, other software though I've always found viable alternatives).  If my PC is fine, I don't want to replace it nor do I see a reason to even try a recycler, if mine still works.  It would be waste in a landfill or my closet.

That is perfectly fine. Unless a good justification is provided, I feel like Microsoft is too aggressive with those system specs. I understand that Microsoft wants to avoid a Vista all over again, and they want to ensure that everyone has a great responsive experience out of Windows 11. But 6th gen Intel CPU/GPU are still supported by Intel, and I don't see a sign that they are being discontinued shortly either. Nvidia and AMD still has support for hardware of that time also (if I am not mistaken). So why not start there instead. At least one can say "Microsoft wants supported hardware for Windows 11 to ensure the best experience" or something along those line... at least it would be something. But so far, there is nothing said.

 

[GoodBytes]

3 minutes ago, StDragon said:

@GoodBytes Did Microsoft say what the last build of Windows 10 will be? I know it's set to be EOLed in 2025, but does that meen MS will continue release newer builds up to that point?? Or is 21H1 the final?

Good question. I don't know. The Windows 10 Insider is still there. You can join. No problem.

I suspect that there will be a 21H2 of Windows 10, but it will be like 21H1, just bug fixes and security updates. No new features (well in this case we did get the News & Interest bar thingy.. yay?!). New features would definitely be on Win11.

 

3 minutes ago, StDragon said:

I would like to think MS would provide an update that would allow for DirectStorage with Windows 10.

Well, that's the thing with DirectX... DirectX advantage (and disadvantage) is that many versions rely on OS core abilities. It's not a driver thing that floats and tries to work with the OS like OpenGL/Vulkan. It's upside is that allows DirectX to get these unique features, like exclusive mode (full screen games gets the near full attention of the hardware to get every drop of performance), and that's the school of thought since the early days of DirectX. It is really to move the OS away as much as possible (while being reasonable) and let the game do its thing to the closest to the hardware.

 

So, yea sure, Microsoft could update the core of Windows 10 to make that happen, for sure. In software, all is possible. But it requires effort that obviously Microsoft isn't willing to give to Windows 10, and just make it as a new feature of Windows 11. 

 

[Nowak]

So, to be clear...

 

Is Secure Boot required for running Windows 11? Because I'm pretty sure I have it enabled in my BIOS, but Windows 10 is refusing to recognize that it is and the checker is failing the Secure Boot check as a result.

[Bombastinator]

1 minute ago, Nowak said:

So, to be clear...

 

Is Secure Boot required for running Windows 11? Because I'm pretty sure I have it enabled in my BIOS, but Windows 10 is refusing to recognize that it is and the checker is failing the Secure Boot check as a result.

I get the impression this cutoff isn’t based on actual hardware stuff but is about time and version which implies it may be breakable. 

[StDragon]

14 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Good question. I don't know. The Windows 10 Insider is still there. You can join. No problem.

I suspect that there will be a 21H2 of Windows 10, but it will be like 21H1, just bug fixes and security updates. No new features (well in this case we did get the News & Interest bar thingy.. yay?!). New features would definitely be on Win11.

I suspect you're correct. Basically new builds of Window 10 at this point would functionally be to supersede an older cumulative update package. Otherwise, it would remain at say, 21H2, with another 4 years of cumulative update packages being released ever so often. 

[Blademaster91]

2 hours ago, jagdtigger said:

Maybe with apple, but in case of android phones ppl just dont care, they just use them until the HW gives up its soul.... (<-same with laptops and PC's among ppl i know, they use them until the hw dies and dont really care about the OS not being supported)

Yeah apple can get away with telling users to throw away their working hardware because of the closed ecosystem, and apple users usually have tons of money to just go oh well and buy new stuff.

And with android phones, only the enthusiasts worry about updates, if apps work they still use the phone.

The concern with Win11 is that it only supports hardware 4 years old or newer, and Intel 8th gen or Ryzen 2000 series is a slap to the face for anyone that has Intel 6th or 7th gen, or Ryzen 1000 series, or an APU that has Ryzen 1000 cpu cores. And Intel 2nd and 3rd gen cpu's run Windows 10 well for work and less demanding games. Hopefully the workaround to install windows 11 works on the release version, if not thats going to be a huge mess.

[Tieox]

57 minutes ago, Blademaster91 said:

Yeah apple can get away with telling users to throw away their working hardware because of the closed ecosystem, and apple users usually have tons of money to just go oh well and buy new stuff.

And with android phones, only the enthusiasts worry about updates, if apps work they still use the phone.

The concern with Win11 is that it only supports hardware 4 years old or newer, and Intel 8th gen or Ryzen 2000 series is a slap to the face for anyone that has Intel 6th or 7th gen, or Ryzen 1000 series, or an APU that has Ryzen 1000 cpu cores. And Intel 2nd and 3rd gen cpu's run Windows 10 well for work and less demanding games. Hopefully the workaround to install windows 11 works on the release version, if not thats going to be a huge mess.

I hope those on the insiders groups never stop bugging Microshit to remove the TPM requirement at least for Home versions. 

[LAwLz]

1 hour ago, Blademaster91 said:

Yeah apple can get away with telling users to throw away their working hardware because of the closed ecosystem, and apple users usually have tons of money to just go oh well and buy new stuff.

I think we should stop saying Apple is a "closed ecosystem".

In terms of software, Windows is more closed down than MacOS.

[Kilrah]

30 minutes ago, Tieox said:

I hope those on the insiders groups never stop bugging Microshit to remove the TPM requirement at least for Home versions. 

Doubt that will be the case, there was this whole interview where they said that with how so many people work from home now they want to bring the same security things to home PCs as in businesses so companies can better trust their employees with the work data etc...

[Tieox]

7 minutes ago, Kilrah said:

Doubt that will be the case, there was this whole interview where they said that with how so many people work from home now they want to bring the same security things to home PCs as in businesses so companies can better trust their employees with the work data etc...

Make it an option or their will be cracked .iso images on .torrent sites with it made a fucking option.  And then their will be reduced security for all since they locked it down to begin with!

 

Is it their fault no, but cause and effect is at play here or will be.

[Blademaster91]

45 minutes ago, Tieox said:

I hope those on the insiders groups never stop bugging Microshit to remove the TPM requirement at least for Home versions. 

I doubt it, considering Microsoft didn't listen to insiders with how many buggy updates got forced in Windows 10, and of course Microsoft wants that more secure OS marketing.

14 minutes ago, Kilrah said:

Doubt that will be the case, there was this whole interview where they said that with how so many people work from home now they want to bring the same security things to home PCs as in businesses so companies can better trust their employees with the work data etc...

If thats the case then companies should be issuing their employees PCs, TPM should be optional then let businesses decide if TPM is required.

[GoodBytes]

5 minutes ago, Tieox said:

Make it an option or their will be cracked .iso images on .torrent sites with it made a fucking option.  And then their will be reduced security for all since they locked it down to begin with!

 

Is it their fault no, but cause and effect is at play here or will be.

The only people installing it, would be you.

TPM has been there for a long while. Firmware TPM too. 

I expect add-on card via PCI-E to be a thing for TPM if they are many system with supported CPUs and don't have TPM or fTPM. (is there?)

[Ericarthurc]

4 hours ago, gjsman said:

I'm wondering what on earth IT Pros are thinking right now. Let's say you upgraded all the PCs on Intel 7th Gen or Ryzen 1st Gen. You are having total End Of Life in less than 4 years, and those PCs aren't upgradeable to a supported configuration which you would have otherwise reasonably expected. You are basically forced into an upgrade cycle earlier than you expected, which is awful during a computer parts shortage when everyone like you is going to be rushing to buy systems. That's just fantastic.

 

Worse, let's say you even listened to Microsoft and bought, say, the Surface Studio 2 which Microsoft sells right now, today. It comes with a 7th Gen processor. If you were an artist studio who, for some reason, bought Surface Studio 2 as your platform, learning you won't be in an officially supported configuration in four years for a $3,500+ computer is idiotic. And you can't just go up to the four year deadline - you're going to need to upgrade in one to three years, not wait to the last minute. Or, take the dangerous route and upgrade despite Microsoft's warnings to an unsupported configuration with the risks that come with that. Why???

IT 'Pro' here.. lol... we mostly run Chromebooks now, but still have a small section (50ish) of windows 10 laptops running on a Windows 2016 Domain server... and not looking forward to Windows 11 in that regard. We will probably just ride out Windows 10 support until 2025 and slowly migrate them all to Chromebooks these next years. 
Windows 10 GPO management is already a freaking joke, it doesn't work.. and Windows updates bork every thing we put in place. We have had to use very 'hacky' solutions for most control. And Windows 10 updates are very aggressive, and most GPO options to stop/migrate updates is subpar at best.

We started migrating to JAMF for iPad control and use Gsuite administration with a partner for Chromebook management.. Say what you want about Google and Chromebooks.. their GPO management solution is TOP NOTCH compared to Microsoft. 

Windows 11 will probably kill our Windows use. Sad day :C
99% of our domain users use web based solutions anyway.. so Chromebook works very well for us.

Our business is kind of hybrid, so we do have another section of users that aren't on a domain, they use Macs and Windows. They will probably be migrated to Windows 11 though. And our IT department will probably migrate to 11 as well. Don't really see a reason not to upgrade in this area.
Our main servers are all hyper visor (ESXi) so OS choice isn't a big deal. 

Macs have been more of a problem for us then anything though. 

[Tieox]

1 minute ago, GoodBytes said:

The only people installing it, would be you.

 

Umm no?

 

How about the large group of people including those in poorer countries with older Ivybridge CPU's perfectly capable of daily tasks being told post 2025 it's EOL hardware? 

 

I'm all for some of the older 775's being unsupported but the TPM requirement is too far, make it an option or repackers will, and I won't be the only one downloading them.

 

Forcing TPM is stupid in a time where the market for such items is broken.

 

 

[Kilrah]

These decisions are made for the 99% of people who will follow them without even asking questions. They couldn't care less about the few who will mess with it, it's the masses having the "right" defaults that matter.

[Vishera]

And here i am testing Windows Vista kernel mods

 

In all honesty Vista looks better than both Windows 10 and 11,and maybe even Windows 7.

[Tieox]

7 minutes ago, Kilrah said:

These decisions are made for the 99% of people who will follow them without even asking questions. They couldn't care less about the few who will mess with it, it's the masses having the "right" defaults that matter.

Really 99% given the blowback across the internet it's bit more than 1% who are upset at the TPM requirement. 

[Blademaster91]

1 hour ago, LAwLz said:

I think we should stop saying Apple is a "closed ecosystem".

In terms of software, Windows is more closed down than MacOS.

If you mean that Microsoft wants everyone to upgrade to at least Intel 8th gen or AMD Ryzen 2000 series, there are workarounds  in the dev build, unless Microsoft really wants to force TPM which is a terrible decision as not everyone has newer hardware and its bad timing while there is a silicon shortage and hardware prices have gone up.

But hardware support is just as important IMO, and Windows is still much more open in terms of hardware support, and you can dual boot into another OS of choice.

[GoodBytes]

Microsoft updated the PC Heath Check app; it now gives a bit more details.
In my case (and just about everything else is bellow specs, but I guess it goes in order and stops at the first things it sees that is wrong)
 

[throwaway3224]

Yeah pretty annoying fixing the thing and having it still say not good enough.

[Murasaki]

8 minutes ago, GoodBytes said:

Microsoft updated the PC Heath Check app; it now gives a bit more details.
In my case (and just about everything else is bellow specs, but I guess it goes in order and stops at the first things it sees that is wrong)
 

I think i broke it by turning off TPM. Now it just opens a generic transfer dialog "preparing for update", briedly relaunches some installer and closes.

 

[GoodBytes]

I forgot who asked, but a while back, it was asked if you can sideload apk's Android apps on Windows 11.

Apparently, an engineer from Microsoft responded on Twitter to that question, answering "Yes" on that question:

https://twitter.com/migueldeicaza/status/1408222245265330178?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

 

Hopefully, the information is correct. That would be great news.

This would make sense as under the Dev event, Microsoft talked, very briefly, albeit, saying that Android apps runs under what is called "Windows Subsystem for Android", or WSA for short. This is the very similar system (if not, identical, beside the OS), as WSL that Microsoft introduced a while back (which, fun fact, refer to Android stuff, as it all started as a possible solution for the Windows 10 Mobile to run Android apps on it, but turns out that the SoC of the time was no match in providing a good experience.... at least with the original implementation. I am sure a lot of improvements were done since)

[GoodBytes]

For those complaining about bloat under Windows 11. The following will be removed:

• Math Input Panel
• News & Interests (changed to the widget thing)
• Quick Status on Lock screen
• Tablet Mode
• 3D Viewer
• Paint 3D
• Skype
• OneNote for Windows 10
• Wallet
• People

(Note: Apps already installed under Windows 10 won't be uninstalled when you upgrade Windows 11, but it will not be installed when you clean install Windows 11)

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/windows-11-specifications#primaryR4

[WhitetailAni]

News and Interests won't be on your taskbar anymore? That's something I'll miss.

I really liked having the weather on my taskbar and being able to see it at a glance, and ever since I reinstalled (Windows just decided to up and die one day) News and Interests isn't there anymore, and no matter how many times I try to get it back it still won't come.

[LAwLz]

1 hour ago, Kilrah said:

Doubt that will be the case, there was this whole interview where they said that with how so many people work from home now they want to bring the same security things to home PCs as in businesses so companies can better trust their employees with the work data etc...

Unless they make Bitlocker work on the home version and make it mandatory, they are just talking out of their ass.

 

 

1 hour ago, Blademaster91 said:

If you mean that Microsoft wants everyone to upgrade to at least Intel 8th gen or AMD Ryzen 2000 series, there are workarounds  in the dev build, unless Microsoft really wants to force TPM which is a terrible decision as not everyone has newer hardware and its bad timing while there is a silicon shortage and hardware prices have gone up.

But hardware support is just as important IMO, and Windows is still much more open in terms of hardware support, and you can dual boot into another OS of choice.

I think we can think of "open-ness" in two ways.

In terms of hardware, Windows is more "open" than MacOS because it runs on more hardware, and anyone can build a compatible Windows PC without having to get special permission from Microsoft. Although it is still quite limited in what it can run on, but most people get around that by just buying hardware that works on Windows (consumer hardware is adapted to work with Windows, rather than the other way around).

 

In terms of software, MacOS is far more "open" than Windows. Windows is very locked down in terms of software. Not just because it is full of closed source components but also because of how it is structured. A lot of functions are nested and therefore very hard or impossible to change, even if they were open source (hence why Microsoft are struggling so much with for example moving functions from the control panel to the settings app).

 

My take is this, if we're talking about hardware then Windows is open and MacOS is closed. If we're talking about software then Windows is closed and MacOS is moderately closed.

GNU/Linux is basically the pinnacle of open-ness both in terms of hardware and software.