Next version of Windows event... Windows 11 -> Ended

[Sauron]

15 hours ago, GoodBytes said:

Program size and locations are now remembered when you disconnect a secondary monitor and plug it back in.

And it only took 6 years of asking...

[Video Beagle]

2 minutes ago, Nowak said:

How recent is it? You might not even need to buy a TPM module.

I think maybe 3 years old? My brain has seriously blanked on it and I'll need to dig up records to check because mental time has lost all meaning for me

[Nowak]

38 minutes ago, Video Beagle said:

I think maybe 3 years old? My brain has seriously blanked on it and I'll need to dig up records to check because mental time has lost all meaning for me

If it's about that old then you should be able to just enable PTT/fTPM in the BIOS. This will be enough to pass the TPM 1.2/2.0 check, and also means you won't have to pay scalper prices for hardware you don't necessarily need. 

[Gunjob]

So TPM 2.0 is now a requirement? Thats great for all the laptops and OEM's but not a single "gAmEr" motherboard comes with a TPM preinstalled... They all have headers sure, but a majority of users will not understand they need to go out and buy the module and install it to their boards.

 

Infact I'm not 100% your standard Dell consumer device has a TPM I know their business line workstations/laptop do I work with them everyday. ( just checked they don't) So EVERY Inspiron laptop will in theory not work with Windows 11. I'm betting that's all OEM consumer laptops. And these laptops won't and don't have easy upgradable headers to tack on a TPM.

[throwaway3224]

17 minutes ago, Gunjob said:

So TPM 2.0 is now a requirement? Thats great for all the laptops and OEM's but not a single "gAmEr" motherboard comes with a TPM preinstalled... They all have headers sure, but a majority of users will not understand they need to go out and buy the module and install it to their boards.

They don't need to do that. Firmware TPM is built into CPUs in the last ~5 years and can be enabled in the BIOS. AMD call it fTPM, Intel call it PTT.

[Gunjob]

16 minutes ago, throwaway3224 said:

They don't need to do that. Firmware TPM is built into CPUs in the last ~5 years and can be enabled in the BIOS. AMD call it fTPM, Intel call it PTT.

That is something new to me, just enabled it myself and Get-TPM is telling me good things. Thanks for the information. 

[porina]

9 hours ago, OrdinaryPhil said:

Regarding the CPU generations... there is really no meaningful difference in terms of architecture from Intel's 9th gen all the way back to their 2nd gen. It's all 14nm litho with the same underlying design. 10th & 11th gen are only slightly difference, and there isn't going to be a REAL architectural change until 12th gen. So choosing 8th gen seems arbitrary to me. There is no reason why a 4-core, 4-thread CPU with an '8' in the name would opperate any differently than a 4-core, 4-thread CPU from with a 7' in the name... especially considering that there are no added instruction sets, no changes to the pipeline, no changes in BUS speed or bandwidth to PCI-E lanes or anything... (Should all be DMI 3.0 I think)

14nm was only introduced with Broadwell (5th gen).

6th - 10th gen (Skylake - Comet Lake) are essentially the same microarchitecture, but differences in process through the generations means they have very different voltage-frequency characteristics. There are also differences related to spectre/meltdown mitigations.

11th gen is a major change in microarchitecture.

I get my ticks mixed up with my tocks, but whichever was the architecture one (Sandy Bridge, Haswell, Skylake) did see significant uplifts in IPC. Haswell notably increased AVX performance, and IPC in that area beat 1st gen Ryzen which was closer to Sandy Bridge level. Skylake wasn't so much new features but it was a wider refinement increasing IPC in wider cases. Rocket Lake once again sees a major uplift to AVX performance.

 

I agree that in practice someone with a 7700k which is not listed should be no worse off in performance than say an 8350k which is listed. So it seems performance is not the deciding line. I note there's a bunch of Atom class CPUs on the supported list. Without digging deeply I'd suspect some feature introduced more recently might be a factor, if not added to the CPU then to the platform as a whole.

[Seyrren]

Hi i tested out windows 11 and there's two things about it i absolutely hated, not being able to move the whole taskbar to the left and seeing as there's no toolbar option, is this a permanent decision or is there still some hope in the final build ?

[Kilrah]

You can move the taskbar to the left, as to the rest nobody would know...

[LAwLz]

12 minutes ago, Kilrah said:

You can move the taskbar to the left, as to the rest nobody would know...

You sure sure? Because Microsoft has officially said:

Quote

Alignment to the bottom of the screen is the only location allowed.

 

[LAwLz]

Spoiler

Microsoft will provide a single Windows 11 feature update annually, targeted for release in the second half of each calendar year.

 

This is very nice. It was very clear to everyone that Microsoft were unable to create two major versions of Windows every year. Hopefully this will mean updates are more tested and fully baked before being released to consumers. 

[Kilrah]

Ah, the whole bar on the left edge of the display, then no. Read it as "move the taskbar contents to the left".

[Radium_Angel]

5 hours ago, WolframaticAlpha said:

I don't think that ubuntu does this. There was the spyware debacle, but they wouldn't  put it, else people would switch in droves to something like Pop or Mint or fedora

I agree with you, the shitstorm over real, actual MS-level telemetry would have been huge, but I wasn't the one making this claim, the other guy was and I was asking for proof of this. Which I have yet to see...

[Radium_Angel]

1 hour ago, throwaway3224 said:

Firmware TPM is built into CPUs in the last ~5 years and can be enabled in the BIOS

Assuming the manufacturer has this feature enabled in the BIOS, we had some (thankfully now gone) older HP systems at work that had the TPM module "installed" on the board, but no way to turn it on or off, it was disabled by default.

 

My concern over this additional requirement, is the reason behind it.

From reading through this thread, I don't believe a hard fact was listed as to the reasons for TPM. I'm waiting for MS to pull something shady like some new and awesome feature won't be available if TPM isn't turned on or something.

 

Dunno, I just have an overall deep mistrust of MS.

[porina]

Thought I'd prepare a Coffee Lake system for trying the OS out... no TPM option in bios. That's two Coffee Lake era Asrock boards that don't support fTPM. Module or nothing.

 

That leaves only a Comet Lake system I was thinking of selling as my possible test bed. Let's see if Gigabyte bios doesn't suck. From past experience, their bioses are pretty bad.

 

Edit: no fTPM on the Gigabyte mobo. It looks like Asus are ahead in this area, with Asrock and Gigabyte lagging. At least, based on the few samples of Intel mobos I have from them. I don't know if they may be different on AMD side.

 

It does leave me in a tricky situation if I want to try this out. The three systems that do have the TPM enabled and meet other requirements are all in frequent use and I really don't want to mess around with them. All use M.2 SSDs so not easy to swap over like SATA.

[Radium_Angel]

31 minutes ago, porina said:

Thought I'd prepare a Coffee Lake system for trying the OS out... no TPM option in bios. That's two Coffee Lake era Asrock boards that don't support fTPM. Module or nothing.

 

That leaves only a Comet Lake system I was thinking of selling as my possible test bed. Let's see if Gigabyte bios doesn't suck. From past experience, their bioses are pretty bad.

It's almost like MS doesn't want you to use their new OS...

[Uttamattamakin]

Windows 11 pro on surface pro

 

[WolframaticAlpha]

22 minutes ago, Radium_Angel said:

It's almost like MS doesn't want you to use their new OS...

[Redmond]

 

 

WIndows engineers: Please let us go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We want to live.... Please !!

The Tux: No.

[Master Delta Chief]

Looks like Steam games can appear on the Store one day if Valve ever accepts that. Makes me think if alternative stores for Android apps will appear as well. Doubt that it will be the case but who knows. https://www.theverge.com/2021/6/25/22550103/microsoft-new-windows-app-store-steam-welcome

[Parabola]

I liked what I saw, but the presentation was kinda lackluster. They didn’t dig enough into the OS for me. 
 

I can see people complaining that they are going the MacOS way but that for me is amazing, MS has let Windows run wild for too long, I’m not a power user so I like a more streamlined experience. I was into customizations in the past but I’m almost 40 now and I just something that is fast, secure and pleasant to work with. 

[StDragon]

6 hours ago, jagdtigger said:

The point is why require a module that is literally never going to be used (AFAIK the only thing that can use it in windows is bitlocker but thats only available in pro and upward versions).....

More specifically, why require the module if the CPU isn't even supported. I've got a work computer that's Skylake. So unless a TPM module can extend life, it's basically getting decommissioned in 2025 (2026 Win10 EOL extended).

 

Can't say it's a bad thing per se. But upgrading from Windows 7 to Windows 10 was a lot easier in terms of system requirements. Windows 11 is a pretty hard break in security requirements even though Windows 11 is just a re-skinned Windows 10 OS. If it wasn't for the stringent CPU and TPM requirements, Windows 10 could probably be upgraded to 11 with as much effort as any other Windows build update.

[Tieox]

TPM requirement needs fucking off so hard a certain hub files a DCMA.

[GoodBytes]

2 hours ago, Master Delta Chief said:

Looks like Steam games can appear on the Store one day if Valve ever accepts that. Makes me think if alternative stores for Android apps will appear as well. Doubt that it will be the case but who knows. https://www.theverge.com/2021/6/25/22550103/microsoft-new-windows-app-store-steam-welcome

I would love that. I am very annoyed with Steam constant updates, and each update are lengthy to install.

I just want to play my game Valve. You can do the update while I play my game, and you can apply the update on next start

[GoodBytes]

5 hours ago, Seyrren said:

Hi i tested out windows 11 and there's two things about it i absolutely hated, not being able to move the whole taskbar to the left and seeing as there's no toolbar option, is this a permanent decision or is there still some hope in the final build ?

This is the decision that they have taken currently. In other words, in their roadmap, adding this feature before the end of the year, isn't there.

Now, if a lot of people want it, and post this under the Feedback Hub when the Insider builds will be released to the public (next week), then Microsoft will probably add it, depending on demand. It could surface on the following version update next year, which is a possibility.

 

[Uttamattamakin]

The upgrade method of installing it went smooth as silk on a Surface Pro.  No issues no concerns.  Though I did an image backup using Macrium Reflect first so I can go back to like this never happened.  

All my apps, settings, and everything just work.  I'd wager there is no fundamental reason that people who installed the leaked build could not join the insider program and update to an official one.  However, I'd expect M$ to Bork that just because.  IF this could run Linux applications using some evolved form of WSL with full hardware acceleration, seamless windows, cut copy and paste it would be the ideal OS.  Just Windows, Android, and Linux apps working in harmony to get the job done.   

One can dream. 

Oh it is going to be VERY annoying for some people to have to look elsewhere for the start button.  There is STRONG muscle memory to move the mouse to that corner.  However, the center screen bottom position will work on any device that might exist in the next 20 years.  Anything from a desktop, to a folding tablet, and we should not rule out the rise of Windows on a phone.  The real issue was always apps.  I for one wouldn't mind having a single, folding, do it all well enough device.  IF it cost around 1000 dollars or less.