Do you think would life be more or less precious if it was infinite.

[Wictorian]

I think it would be more precious.

[mahyar]

well it would be less precious

[Wictorian]

1 hour ago, mahyar said:

well it would be less precious

to me its like how bad would you feel if you lost 100 dollars vs millions of dollars

[mahyar]

8 minutes ago, Wictorian said:

to me its like how bad would you feel if you lost 100 dollars vs millions of dollars

to me its like being a billionaire  you can spend as much money as you can but when you have save little bits of money for something and count every penny and be careful not to waste it  

[Levent]

What is up with you and all these meme/paradoxical questions? Answer to your question is simple, time is one of the constants we have in our universe, you can't go back or travel forward thus can't live forever, if that were to change, whole concept of "value" would change.

Edited January 28, 2021 by Levent
Fixed my grammar

[Eschew]

Mixed feelings about attributing meaning/"preciousness" to a life based on a numerical value (i.e. lifespan). In my eyes, value -- value applicable to individual existances/lives, that is -- is something that's closely tied to that individual's merit. A person afflicted with a terrible disease that shortens their lifespan and that does no respectable deeds won't earn much much of my respect and I won't value their life, sad to say. But another person with the same lifespan, but that lives out their life to the fullest and enriches the lives of others around them will definitely be someone I'd admire. In both cases, lifespan might draw some sympathy from me, but it ultimately has very little bearing on how much meaning I attribute to the person's existance.

 

TLDR: Show me your moves. 

Respect and value is earned, not given or demanded, IMO.

 

Just my opinion, though.  

[akio123008]

2 hours ago, mahyar said:

well it would be less precious

 

27 minutes ago, Wictorian said:

to me its like how bad would you feel if you lost 100 dollars vs millions of dollars

You guys seem to have 2 definitions of infinite;

 

@mahyaruses "you can't die" (as in you're invincible) in which case it's less precious, because well, there's nothing to lose

@Wictorianuses "you won't die naturally" (as in you can still get killed in say an accident) in which case, you have more to lose because when you get killed you lose the option of infinite life.

 

So you're both correct depending on what meaning "infinite life" has.

[mahyar]

7 minutes ago, akio123008 said:

 

You guys seem to have 2 definitions of infinite;

 

@mahyaruses "you can't die" (as in you're invincible) in which case it's less precious, because well, there's nothing to lose

@Wictorianuses "you won't die naturally" (eg but you can still get killed in say an accident) in which case, you have more to lose because when you get killed you lose the option of infinite life.

 

So you're both correct depending on what meaning "infinite life" has.

well this is not much different

sure there are a lot of people dying "unaturally" but most people are not that way 

in both cases you have a lot of time to work with and as such life as we know it is meaningless 

[Wictorian]

On 1/28/2021 at 2:03 PM, akio123008 said:

 

You guys seem to have 2 definitions of infinite;

 

@mahyaruses "you can't die" (as in you're invincible) in which case it's less precious, because well, there's nothing to lose

@Wictorianuses "you won't die naturally" (as in you can still get killed in say an accident) in which case, you have more to lose because when you get killed you lose the option of infinite life.

 

So you're both correct depending on what meaning "infinite life" has.

@mahyar

 

Well, you can't live infinitely because eventually the universe itself will die, but since it would be trillions of years, it can be virtually impossible to us, mortals. 
 

Also I think murder would be a bigger issue then 

 

On 1/28/2021 at 1:51 PM, mahyar said:

to me its like being a billionaire  you can spend as much money as you can but when you have save little bits of money for something and count every penny and be careful not to waste it  

Definitely a day itself for example would be less valuable. But I am talking about the whole life. What if a broke man lost the little money he had? What if a billionire lost his fortune?

 

On 1/28/2021 at 1:58 PM, Eschew said:

Mixed feelings about attributing meaning/"preciousness" to a life based on a numerical value (i.e. lifespan). In my eyes, value -- value applicable to individual existances/lives, that is -- is something that's closely tied to that individual's merit. A person afflicted with a terrible disease that shortens their lifespan and that does no respectable deeds won't earn much much of my respect and I won't value their life, sad to say. But another person with the same lifespan, but that lives out their life to the fullest and enriches the lives of others around them will definitely be someone I'd admire. In both cases, lifespan might draw some sympathy from me, but it ultimately has very little bearing on how much meaning I attribute to the person's existance.

 

TLDR: Show me your moves. 

Respect and value is earned, not given or demanded, IMO.

 

Just my opinion, though.  

It's not other people's lives, but rather your life.

 

On 1/28/2021 at 2:03 PM, akio123008 said:

 

You guys seem to have 2 definitions of infinite;

 

@mahyaruses "you can't die" (as in you're invincible) in which case it's less precious, because well, there's nothing to lose

@Wictorianuses "you won't die naturally" (as in you can still get killed in say an accident) in which case, you have more to lose because when you get killed you lose the option of infinite life.

 

So you're both correct depending on what meaning "infinite life" has.

Yeah that is my opinion but Idk if everyone would agree

 

On 1/28/2021 at 2:08 PM, mahyar said:

well this is not much different

sure there are a lot of people dying "unaturally" but most people are not that way 

in both cases you have a lot of time to work with and as such life as we know it is meaningless 

Actually it is, some people could even stay at home as much as possible to minimize fatal risk and be scared to go outside and other things like that

[Eschew]

2 minutes ago, Wictorian said:

1 hour ago, Eschew said:

Mixed feelings about attributing meaning/"preciousness" to a life based on a numerical value (i.e. lifespan). In my eyes, value -- value applicable to individual existances/lives, that is -- is something that's closely tied to that individual's merit. A person afflicted with a terrible disease that shortens their lifespan and that does no respectable deeds won't earn much much of my respect and I won't value their life, sad to say. But another person with the same lifespan, but that lives out their life to the fullest and enriches the lives of others around them will definitely be someone I'd admire. In both cases, lifespan might draw some sympathy from me, but it ultimately has very little bearing on how much meaning I attribute to the person's existance.

 

TLDR: Show me your moves. 

Respect and value is earned, not given or demanded, IMO.

 

Just my opinion, though.  

It's not other people's lives, but rather your life.

You'll have to forgive me if I don't understand the nuance you're implying?

 

I think my point still applies, regardless of whether the "person"/"individual" refers to the lives of others or my own life. Doesn't matter if I live to thirty, a hundred, pass on tomorrow, or live on endlessly. My standards are, if I want my own life to have value, I have to actively add meaning to it.

 

I'm fortunate enough to experience the world around me with all my senses, consciousness, and intelligence intact. Might as well use them and make my life worthwhile, or something? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[mahyar]

16 minutes ago, Wictorian said:

Definitely a day itself for example would be less valuable. But I am talking about the whole life. What if a broke man lost the little money he had? What if a billionire lost his fortune?

there is an old saying that says:

you will understand value of something when its no more 

and the larger the lost thing the more sadness

but this will only apply to us mere mortals  

a person who is raised in a community of people who are immortal or are like vandal savage will not care about such a thing because IF their nature is even a little bit ike human the will get bored of it 

[Wictorian]

On 1/28/2021 at 3:15 PM, Eschew said:

You'll have to forgive me if I don't understand the nuance you're implying?

 

I think my point still applies, regardless of whether the "person"/"individual" refers to the lives of others or my own life. Doesn't matter if I live to thirty, a hundred, pass on tomorrow, or live on endlessly. My standards are, if I want my own life to have value, I have to actively add meaning to it.

 

I'm fortunate enough to experience the world around me with all my senses, consciousness, and intelligence intact. Might as well use them and make my life worthwhile, or something? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Example?

 

On 1/28/2021 at 3:29 PM, mahyar said:

there is an old saying that says:

you will understand value of something when its no more 

and the larger the lost thing the more sadness

but this will only apply to us mere mortals  

a person who is raised in a community of people who are immortal or are like vandal savage will not care about such a thing because IF their nature is even a little bit ike human the will get bored of it 

I don't think so, entertainment industry would develop even more maybe

[Eschew]

3 minutes ago, Wictorian said:

Example?

Please use more words. I'm not sure what "example" you'd like me to describe?

[Velcade]

Imagine running a race with no finish line.... no thank you.

[lewdicrous]

It's up to you to give life meaning/preciousness. Whether it is finite or not should not really matter.

[Wictorian]

13 hours ago, Eschew said:

Please use more words. I'm not sure what "example" you'd like me to describe?

How can you put more meaning to your life?

[AndreiArgeanu]

It would probably be less precious, the earth would be overpopulated .

[Wictorian]

32 minutes ago, AndreiArgeanu said:

It would probably be less precious, the earth would be overpopulated .

I think birth rates would go down

[minibois]

 

you could argue - with this definition in mind - life becomes less precious if we all live forever (whether that be "invincible"/"immortal" or just "not die of old age).

you can be less careful with your time on this Earth, as you have a lot more of it anyways.

 

 

think about 10 years. 10 years is a large amount of time, especially if you consider life expectancy is around 75-80 years (depends on where you're from of course). That means 10 years is 12.5 - 15% of your entire life. 

precious time.

 

now consider eternal life.

10 years is part of that eternal life, but can't be expressed in a "portion" of it, since the life is infinite in length.

each year is less valuable, thus less precious, because you have so many of them.

[Eschew]

5 hours ago, Wictorian said:

How can you put more meaning to your life?

Ah...  The question is phrased like you're asking for life advice, rather than continuing an on-going discussion. Would just like to put a smol disclaimer, in that case: the question is rather personal, and my response -- my views -- won't necessarily reflect others' views on the topic. My intention here is not to give advice, or to tell others how to live their lives. I'm only describing my own experience.

 

Generally speaking, I appreciate and value things and actions that are done with great thought or genuinely selfless intentions. As examples, artwork or music that's saturated with context and nuances, or friendly, in-depth advice shared freely with others (hence my absurd number of likes/reactions on this forum). For more personal examples applicable to myself, I used to write about my perspectives on philosophical and personal topics (private blog, not for public viewing ), and I try to extend a helping hand to whomever that asks (politely). In these instances, people actively concentrate their time, energy, and passion into a productive outcome, and I simply appreciate that earnestness and willingness to improve the self, or to enrich the life of someone else.

 

TLDR: Intelligent action and altruism earns a great deal of my respect and are things that add value to life, for me.

 

There are other things that help add value to my life as well, I feel. Might need to ruminate on it for a bit before I can translate that nudging feeling into words.

 

I think... we might have deviated a lil' from the original topic, about eternal lifespans and how (or whether) that ties into the value of someone's life? Although, perhaps it also serves to highlight my point -- in my opinion, value and meaning in life is derived through active action and active interpretation, rather than passively/automatically deciding that all life has inherent value, or a certain value determined by time.

[Wictorian]

On 1/29/2021 at 10:38 AM, Eschew said:

Ah...  The question is phrased like you're asking for life advice, rather than continuing an on-going discussion. Would just like to put a smol disclaimer, in that case: the question is rather personal, and my response -- my views -- won't necessarily reflect others' views on the topic. My intention here is not to give advice, or to tell others how to live their lives. I'm only describing my own experience.

 

Generally speaking, I appreciate and value things and actions that are done with great thought or genuinely selfless intentions. As examples, artwork or music that's saturated with context and nuances, or friendly, in-depth advice shared freely with others (hence my absurd number of likes/reactions on this forum). For more personal examples applicable to myself, I used to write about my perspectives on philosophical and personal topics (private blog, not for public viewing ), and I try to extend a helping hand to whomever that asks (politely). In these instances, people actively concentrate their time, energy, and passion into a productive outcome, and I simply appreciate that earnestness and willingness to improve the self, or to enrich the life of someone else.

 

TLDR: Intelligent action and altruism earns a great deal of my respect and are things that add value to life, for me.

 

There are other things that help add value to my life as well, I feel. Might need to ruminate on it for a bit before I can translate that nudging feeling into words.

 

I think... we might have deviated a lil' from the original topic, about eternal lifespans and how (or whether) that ties into the value of someone's life? Although, perhaps it also serves to highlight my point -- in my opinion, value and meaning in life is derived through active action and active interpretation, rather than passively/automatically deciding that all life has inherent value, or a certain value determined by time.

I think at this point it is very repetitive but I believe we are talking about different meanings of value. What I meant earlier by indicating that it is your life can be explained this way:

 

Suppose that I am asking if 70.000 or 70 billion dollars is more valuable. You are saying that if you use 70 grand to help others, it is ultimately a lot more valuable than if you spend the 70 billion all for your selfish desires. But my question was kinda how sad would you be if you lost 70 grand vs 70 billion. 
 

Everyone seemed to think that it would be less precious unlike me, and now I get it because I thought of it as a whole whereas other people thought of a fraction of it.

 

On 1/29/2021 at 6:55 AM, minibois said:

 

you could argue - with this definition in mind - life becomes less precious if we all live forever (whether that be "invincible"/"immortal" or just "not die of old age).

you can be less careful with your time on this Earth, as you have a lot more of it anyways.

 

 

think about 10 years. 10 years is a large amount of time, especially if you consider life expectancy is around 75-80 years (depends on where you're from of course). That means 10 years is 12.5 - 15% of your entire life. 

precious time.

 

now consider eternal life.

10 years is part of that eternal life, but can't be expressed in a "portion" of it, since the life is infinite in length.

each year is less valuable, thus less precious, because you have so many of them.

Would you sacrifice most of your lifespan to make it more precious tho?

 

and even a moment is less precious (it totally is) is it as a whole? For example let's say it is half as precious. But your life would be more than double of your finite life thus, making it more precious. 

 

On 1/29/2021 at 10:38 AM, Eschew said:

Ah...  The question is phrased like you're asking for life advice, rather than continuing an on-going discussion. Would just like to put a smol disclaimer, in that case: the question is rather personal, and my response -- my views -- won't necessarily reflect others' views on the topic. My intention here is not to give advice, or to tell others how to live their lives. I'm only describing my own experience.

 

Generally speaking, I appreciate and value things and actions that are done with great thought or genuinely selfless intentions. As examples, artwork or music that's saturated with context and nuances, or friendly, in-depth advice shared freely with others (hence my absurd number of likes/reactions on this forum). For more personal examples applicable to myself, I used to write about my perspectives on philosophical and personal topics (private blog, not for public viewing ), and I try to extend a helping hand to whomever that asks (politely). In these instances, people actively concentrate their time, energy, and passion into a productive outcome, and I simply appreciate that earnestness and willingness to improve the self, or to enrich the life of someone else.

 

TLDR: Intelligent action and altruism earns a great deal of my respect and are things that add value to life, for me.

 

There are other things that help add value to my life as well, I feel. Might need to ruminate on it for a bit before I can translate that nudging feeling into words.

 

I think... we might have deviated a lil' from the original topic, about eternal lifespans and how (or whether) that ties into the value of someone's life? Although, perhaps it also serves to highlight my point -- in my opinion, value and meaning in life is derived through active action and active interpretation, rather than passively/automatically deciding that all life has inherent value, or a certain value determined by time.

About the advice thing, for example if you were in the place of Linus, would you retire or not? (Your answer says you wouldn't)

 

On 1/28/2021 at 4:23 PM, Velcade said:

Imagine running a race with no finish line.... no thank you.

Well, you can always leave. Versus that Imagine you can only run once for a short time, and you love running.

 

On 1/29/2021 at 5:47 PM, Wictorian said:

Well, you can always leave. Versus that Imagine you can only run once for a short time, and you love running.

 

[minibois]

30 minutes ago, Wictorian said:

Would you sacrifice most of your lifespan to make it more precious tho?

that's trying to open a whole can of worms, I am not going to go into right now...

but what I meant before is we have an X amount of time on this Earth, meaning more time = less value per time increment.

32 minutes ago, Wictorian said:

and even a moment is less precious (it totally is) is it as a whole? For example let's say it is half as precious. But your life would be more than double of your finite life thus, making it more precious. 

sure, but that's implementing a whole bunch of variables you shouldn't implement in this equation.

 

that's like saying "well what life is more precious, a life of 20 years or a life of 40 years? also, in your 40 year life you will be doing way different things". you can't compare like that.

you can only compare two equal lives, with a different timespan and talk about it being more or less precious.

[Wictorian]

6 minutes ago, minibois said:

that's trying to open a whole can of worms, I am not going to go into right now...

but what I meant before is we have an X amount of time on this Earth, meaning more time = less value per time increment.

sure, but that's implementing a whole bunch of variables you shouldn't implement in this equation.

 

that's like saying "well what life is more precious, a life of 20 years or a life of 40 years? also, in your 40 year life you will be doing way different things". you can't compare like that.

you can only compare two equal lives, with a different timespan and talk about it being more or less precious.

I didn't really intend to say that. You already say they are equal. I get it, there are a lot more things than time measuring the value of life. But my argument was actually that people say life is beautiful because it has an end, and I don't think so. 

[minibois]

5 minutes ago, Wictorian said:

I didn't really intend to say that. You already say they are equal. I get it, there are a lot more things than time measuring the value of life. But my argument was actually that people say life is beautiful because it has an end, and I don't think so. 

What did I say was equal?

 

Basically what I meant - to come up with an analogy - let's say there are two alternate realities. In one of them you have $1000, in the other ones you have $100.

You still need to buy the same necessities, etc. so we can ignore that.

$10 buys you the same in either reality, but in the reality where you only have $100 is it more valuable, because you have less of it. You have to make it really count.

 

Same with a life of - say for example - 20 vs. 40 years.

That 20 year life is more valuable per day, as you simply have less days than in 40 years.

 

But of course that brings the argument of "well some people see "value" in a different way and what you do in life ultimate decides you value", etc. etc.

To make sure there is a clear answer, I'm just limiting the framing of the question.

[Eschew]

...

I will agree with this part, that we interpret the word "value" differently:

2 hours ago, Wictorian said:

I think at this point it is very repetitive but I believe we are talking about different meanings of value.

Only to use it to dismiss and disagree with this part:

2 hours ago, Wictorian said:

You are saying that if you use 70 grand to help others, it is ultimately a lot more valuable than if you spend the 70 billion all for your selfish desires.

Specifically, by using money in your example, I think my point -- that I don't believe value of life may be bound/quantified by any numerical system (e.g. time/lifespan, wealth) -- has been missed entirely. To elaborate, the way I interpret someone's value is an unequal mix of merit, sentimentality, admiration, and other indescribable factors. It's a subjective value that won't be accurately described or contained by an objective system like numbers.

 

2 hours ago, Wictorian said:

Suppose that I am asking if 70.000 or 70 billion dollars is more valuable. You are saying that if you use 70 grand to help others, it is ultimately a lot more valuable than if you spend the 70 billion all for your selfish desires. But my question was kinda how sad would you be if you lost 70 grand vs 70 billion.

The only response I can imagine that would relate to this example (which is rather inapplicable to my perspective on value), is that loss is loss. If someone means something to me, and if they were to pass on, I will grieve, and then I will use that grief to carry on with my own life.

 

The implication in your example is that there are Tier Lists or ranks for real people. I do not and will not disrespect people by compressing their individiualities into numerical values, or by turning it into a competitive numerical system.

 

2 hours ago, Wictorian said:

About the advice thing, for example if you were in the place of Linus, would you retire or not? (Your answer says you wouldn't)

Again, I'll ask you to please be more specific with your words.

 

Retire... what, exactly? From life? From a successful job?

 

Assuming absolute freedom of agency -- that is, I'm not being given an ultimatum, I don't have to compromise one thing for another, and there are no detrimental consequences to the action -- if I enjoy what I do or if I succeed at something, I will continue doing it until I don't find meaning it in anymore. Why stop at something if it gives you pleasure and joy in life, or if it provides security and satisfaction for your friends and family?

 

The only reason I'd willingly retire from life or from a job is if I had valid reason to, and if that retirement is meaningful to me. Say, choosing voluntary euthansia in place of waiting for old age to creep up to me (I do enjoy being in control of my life and my death), or passing on my job position to the next generation for the continued success of the company and the continued welfare of its employees.