After a bad 2020, is Intel finished?

[DrMacintosh]

Just now, Elisis said:

And? Intel still happens to be more present.

Yes. And? IBM was very present in the consumer desktop space long after their fate was sealed. Are you going to tell me that the next 3 years look promising for Intel in the consumer space? Intel literally lost a significant portion of all their sales (Apple) because they are incapable of improving their processors. 

[Elisis]

Just now, DrMacintosh said:

Are you going to tell me that the next 3 years look promising for Intel in the consumer space?

This is entirely besides the point being made. Nowhere did I imply such a thing.

[TempestCatto]

If anything, Intel is currently on track to beat AMD. It's only a matter of how long before we get there. Everyone wants to be on top and Intel sure as shit isn't going away just because their competition is winning at the moment. That's just how innovation is driven. Company A has the best product, few years later Company B makes an even better one, this causes Company A to rethink, redesign, and make something new. This then puts Company A back on top, the whole thing is rinse and repeat. It always leaves consumers with even better products as a result. This whole situation is good for us as consumers because no matter who has the best product, be it a CPU, a GPU, a sensor of some sort, we are the ones that end up with better stuff than we currently have. Idk how people can think "Oh, AMD has the better CPU now, guess Intel will just have to die then" makes no damn sense to me.

[tech.guru]

7 minutes ago, DrMacintosh said:

Yes. And? IBM was very present in the consumer desktop space long after their fate was sealed. Are you going to tell me that the next 3 years look promising for Intel in the consumer space? Intel literally lost a significant portion of all their sales (Apple) because they are incapable of improving their processors. 

if you understand intel is more than a processor company you would understand they have long way to go before they are gone.

 

intel will no doubt have challenges in consumer processor market, but PC sales were generally down year after year until covid and they still lead AMD.

see, https://www.statista.com/statistics/735904/worldwide-x86-intel-amd-market-share/

 

intel processors are still a market leader in the enterprise market and lack of product options from OEM integrators is a big AMD weakness they have yet to fix. 

[DrMacintosh]

43 minutes ago, Elisis said:

This is entirely besides the point being made. Nowhere did I imply such a thing.

If you’re not taking the next 3-5years into account for your forecasting of how well a company is doing, you’re doing everything wrong. 

[DrMacintosh]

44 minutes ago, TempestCatto said:

 

If anything, Intel is currently on track to beat AMD

 

And what product roadmap did you look at to make that determination? What new technologies or process nodes does Intel have in the pipeline? Another +?

[Mark Kaine]

4 hours ago, svmlegacy said:

 

looks like they're doing pretty well.

looks like the graph is going down to me... 

[whm1974]

6 hours ago, Mark Kaine said:

looks like the graph is going down to me... 

So? Companies Stock Values go up and down over Time. Graphs by themselves don't mean anything.

[RejZoR]

Lol, Intel isn't going anywhere. Ppl still buy their CPU's and while they are not the best of the best there is like years ago, they still have their place. People are also forgetting they don't only make CPU's. They also make bunch of other components used by other vendors, they have other products they sell themselves and whole enterprise stack that is bringing them money when things are less ideal on consumer front. Also Intel will have a comeback, you can almost be sure about that. They were just really underestimating AMD few years ago and haven't cought up yet. But you can be assured they have things rolling in their secret R&D labs. And just frabrication node isn't the issue here. It helps, but design of chips is so much more than that as evident on what AMD did with Ryzen 5000 series and it's still on "old" 7nm node. Or what NVIDIA did with Maxwell 2 on 28nm node.

[NineEyeRon]

11 hours ago, jones177 said:

Unless Intel can pull a rabbit out of a hat, my next CPU purchase will be AMD.  

Same for me, been Intel for 20 years.

 

I think Intel will be absolutely fine, they have big markets and will keep plenty of the consumer side.

 

AMD can only grow in their non-consumer side and take some from Intel but they are way behind in market shares, this is and will change!

[heickelrrx]

On my Region, Going Locked Intel is far cheaper than Ryzen, even before 5000 series released, since I am not live in America or Canada but in indonesia, the difference between 30$ can seriously impact buying desicion because when it translated to local currency the difference feel so huge and enough for people to give up overclocking support

Currently I am rocking B460m Aorus Pro + 10400F, the price breakdown is bellow

10400F : 2.300.000 IDR
B460m Aorus : 1.800.000 IDR

when checking AMD Equivalent 
R5 3600 : 3.300.000 IDR
B450M Aorus : 2.000.000

Sure, can go lower end board, and such but even the CPU already 1.000.000 IDR Premium, which is 1/4 of minimum wage here, giving up overclocking support by going intel allow me to going with better GPU, or even 1 month lunch allowance, and that's how many people build their PC here, and I can see this is happening too on many region which have weaker currency

Ryzen did make 10400F exist and it's such a great CPU, and I hope the next cheap CPU is great too

 

Not to mention Xeon still the best on market, not by performance, but by overall platform, AMD may have performance leadership, but they still far behind in software side and ecosystem, 

[Lord Szechenyi]

12 hours ago, Descargo81 said:

Hammered by AMD on the x86 front and abandoned by Apple for M1, is this the beginning of the end for Intel? Can they come back? 

i wonder if this a top tier troll or genuinely an ignorant. 

[whm1974]

7 minutes ago, Lord Szechenyi said:

i wonder if this a top tier troll or genuienely an ignorant. 

This is why I think that this Topic is a bit silly. Intel isn't going anywhere. The only Reason Apple went with an ARM SoC of their own design is so they have more of their Walled Garden. 

[heickelrrx]

1 minute ago, whm1974 said:

This is why I think that this Topic is a bit silly. Intel isn't going anywhere. The only Reason Apple went with an ARM SoC of their own design is so they have more of their Walled Garden. 

The goal about M1 is less about performance, it's more about less user upgradeable, less repairable, and making Mac Ecocsystem much more like iOS

in future apple will make all program on Mac Only available on their Store, and will impose 30% cut or 15% depend on the future policy on all software on mac ecosystem.

[whm1974]

Just now, heickelrrx said:

The goal about M1 is less about performance, it's more about less user upgradeable, less repairable, and making Mac Ecocsystem much more like iOS

in future apple will make all program on Mac Only available on their Store, and will impose 30% cut or 15% depend on the future policy on all software on mac ecosystem.

And a good reason why I'll never buy an Apple product. Now the Apple II Series were great.

[Nuclear_Fermion]

I might need to adjust my tin foil hat but I think intel might be using the AMD and apple smokescreen to cook up a killer lineup of CPUs. I know they use the tick tock model but I think within maybe the next 18mo. - 2 years we might see team blue refine a new lithography and architecture and pull out a lead over team red.

[CommanderAlex]

8 hours ago, Mark Kaine said:

looks like the graph is going down to me... 

They made some profits in the consumer level as people were forced to work from home and had to buy computers where the majority of the market still has Intel processors in them. At the half way point in 2020, Intel dropped 10% of their value after they announced that 7nm will be delayed until 2022. 

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-53525710

 

53 minutes ago, whm1974 said:

This is why I think that this Topic is a bit silly. Intel isn't going anywhere. The only Reason Apple went with an ARM SoC of their own design is so they have more of their Walled Garden. 

Its been rumored years ago and it has finally come to fix the holes in their Walled Garden...another reason I'll never buy Apple going into the future. 

19 minutes ago, Nuclear_Fermion said:

I might need to adjust my tin foil hat but I think intel might be using the AMD and apple smokescreen to cook up a killer lineup of CPUs. I know they use the tick tock model but I think within maybe the next 18mo. - 2 years we might see team blue refine a new lithography and architecture and pull out a lead over team red.

Intel abandoned the Tick(Process)-Tock(Architecture) model back in 2016 going with Process-Architecture-Optimization, a three year model instead of two year model like Tick-Tock. Intel has been really stuck on trying to change their wafer size from 300mm to 450mm to reduce $/mm per wafer that is currently rising on 300mm wafers.  

[Nuclear_Fermion]

5 minutes ago, CommanderAlex said:

They made some profits in the consumer level as people were forced to work from home and had to buy computers where the majority of the market still has Intel processors in them. At the half way point in 2020, Intel dropped 10% of their value after they announced that 7nm will be delayed until 2022. 

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-53525710

 

Its been rumored years ago and it has finally come to fix the holes in their Walled Garden...another reason I'll never buy Apple going into the future. 

Intel abandoned the Tick(Process)-Tock(Architecture) model back in 2016 going with Process-Architecture-Optimization, a three year model instead of two year model like Tick-Tock. Intel has been really stuck on trying to change their wafer size from 300mm to 450mm to reduce $/mm per wafer that is currently rising on 300mm wafers.  

yeah, I know lithography isn't the be all and end all but Apple and AMD now have a smaller process, I think that might be a big killer though I'm not sure if 7 vs 14 nm makes all that difference 

[Mark Kaine]

8 minutes ago, CommanderAlex said:

They made some profits in the consumer level

 

8 minutes ago, CommanderAlex said:

Intel dropped 10% of their value after they announced

man, it was a joke - but I did see on a glance it didn't look so great, also not so bad, but just posting that graph and basically saying "things are looking good" was what even made me comment on it. 

 

And idk if you posted this or someone else, just saying I wasn't entirely serious and I found it ironic because it really doesn't look so great for Intel either way, they've seen better times for sure. 

[aDoomGuy]

Intel doesn't even care about us gamers. What is important to them is the server market and in that they're doing well.

[CommanderAlex]

13 minutes ago, Nuclear_Fermion said:

yeah, I know lithography isn't the be all and end all but Apple and AMD now have a smaller process, I think that might be a big killer though I'm not sure if 7 vs 14 nm makes all that difference 

You can never ever ever compare manufacturing nodes across difference semiconductor fabrication companies. AMD(TSMC) 7nm =/= Intel 7nm... Its more like AMD(TSMC) 7nm == Intel 10nm with Intel's transistor density. Semiconductor fabrication companies have different ways of measuring the length of the gate of a transistor. They are just marketing terms nowadays. 

 

12 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

 

man, it was a joke - but I did see on a glance it didn't look so great, also not so bad, but just posting that graph and basically saying "things are looking good" was what even made me comment on it. 

 

And idk if you posted this or someone else, just saying I wasn't entirely serious and I found it ironic because it really doesn't look so great for Intel either way, they've seen better times for sure. 

Yeah I do believe Intel slipped up, and lost stock as a result, also lost government contracts as the government (US IIRC) stopped as a result of the pandemic and focused on that. I personally believe that Intel will make a come back but I don't see when they will, just like how AMD did with their Ryzen lineup. Also, I think its time for Intel to fix upper management which I believe contributed to their current state in the CPU market( Like AMD did with Dr. Lisa Su). A video I watched about this I'll provide down below. 

 

[Helpful Tech Witch]

13 hours ago, DrMacintosh said:

Also Intel still obliterates AMD in the laptop market which is the majority of PC sales anyway, so...

Do you mean by sales? Because im pretty sure ryzen 4000 for laptops was a better product then core 10th gen.

[DrMacintosh]

42 minutes ago, HelpfulTechWizard said:

Do you mean by sales?

yes, I was only talking about sales there. 

[WkdPaul]

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