m1 Apple M1 = the rest of us are living in the stone age!?

[Lord Vile]

31 minutes ago, GDRRiley said:

given how bad the relationship is at this point and apples relativity low volume I'd doubt they are making supply agreements long term.

Obviously not now but for example if they signed a 10 year deal in say 2010

[GDRRiley]

3 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

Obviously not now but for example if they signed a 10 year deal in say 2010

even then they wouldn't have. no one signs a 10 year agreement in tech

[Lord Vile]

8 minutes ago, GDRRiley said:

even then they wouldn't have. no one signs a 10 year agreement in tech

 “We think Intel’s technology will help us create the best personal computers for the next 10 years,” Jobs said."

[whm1974]

Given the Title of this Topic, I have to ask just how Apple new custom ARM SoC mean that the rest of us are living in the Stone Age?

 

I mean really?

[Riccardo Cagnasso]

On 11/26/2020 at 3:07 PM, gal-m said:

Can Apple Silicon wipe everything else out?

No. Because someone else in the market will react.

But "Apple M1 = the rest of us are living in the stone age!? "

Yes.

Thermal and power efficiency is the name of the game since multi core performance are the real deal. If your core is more thermal efficient (an also smaller, since ARM is RISC), you can cram more of them cheaply.

This is only the first launch of the new Apple M1, where they sort of prove the concept. But I fully expect them to start release really poweful cpus with a ton of cores. I won't be surprised to see a 256 core mac pro in the near future.

[A51UK]

3 minutes ago, Riccardo Cagnasso said:

No. Because someone else in the market will react.

But "Apple M1 = the rest of us are living in the stone age!? "

Yes.

Thermal and power efficiency is the name of the game since multi core performance are the real deal. If your core is more thermal efficient (an also smaller, since ARM is RISC), you can cram more of them cheaply.

This is only the first launch of the new Apple M1, where they sort of prove the concept. But I fully expect them to start release really poweful cpus with a ton of cores. I won't be surprised to see a 256 core mac pro in the near future.

 

"Apple M1 = the rest of us are living in the stone age!? "

 

No! It good CPU but not that great. 

 

It only a ARM CPU nothing really new, I can see some really problem in getting to scale up without remove the RAM and GPU from the CPU. Also the AMD Ryzen™ 5000 Series is still better them the M1. 

 

Also have you hear the news on RISC-V  CPU with thermal and power efficiency? If true RISC-V would be in the better place to over take ARM.  

 

 

In the end it a OK CPU with some limited on RAM and GPU for now. I think there going have to remove the RAM from the CPU in the end or tier system  with RAM with some on CPU and other on the motherboard. . 

 

 

[whm1974]

35 minutes ago, A51UK said:

 

"Apple M1 = the rest of us are living in the stone age!? "

 

No! It good CPU but not that great. 

 

It only a ARM CPU nothing really new, I can see some really problem in getting to scale up without remove the RAM and GPU from the CPU. Also the AMD Ryzen™ 5000 Series is still better them the M1. 

 

Also have you hear the news on RISC-V  CPU with thermal and power efficiency? If true RISC-V would be in the better place to over take ARM.  

 

 

In the end it a OK CPU with some limited on RAM and GPU for now. I think there going have to remove the RAM from the CPU in the end or tier system  with RAM with some on CPU and other on the motherboard. . 

 

 

This is why the new M1 SoC from will not take over everything. And only being available on Apple Macs will prevent this.

 

Will future Mn SoC Macs allow for memory and dGPU upgrades? Is Apple Planning on a new Mac Pro using one of their custom ARM SoCs later?

[Riccardo Cagnasso]

2 hours ago, A51UK said:

Also have you hear the news on RISC-V  CPU with thermal and power efficiency? If true RISC-V would be in the better place to over take ARM. 

That's exactly what I meant with "the market will react"

[GDRRiley]

4 hours ago, Lord Vile said:

 “We think Intel’s technology will help us create the best personal computers for the next 10 years,” Jobs said."

that doesn't mean they signed a 10 year deal. only that they really didn't want to change platforms after just moving from PowerPC to X86. intels road maps back in 2006 looked decent. thing is by 2016 they had mostly stagnated and been delayed.

[Lord Vile]

49 minutes ago, GDRRiley said:

that doesn't mean they signed a 10 year deal. only that they really didn't want to change platforms after just moving from PowerPC to X86. intels road maps back in 2006 looked decent. thing is by 2016 they had mostly stagnated and been delayed.

Hence Apple silicon. Ryzen wasn't a thing then either so why bother swapping when you're already balls deep into developing for ARM.

[GDRRiley]

6 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

Hence Apple silicon. Ryzen wasn't a thing then either so why bother swapping when you're already balls deep into developing for ARM.

ryzen was a thing in 2016, it was on the drawing board . apple could have easily bought into zen and gotten a better that intel chip sooner.

Quote

AMD officially announced a new series of processors, named "Ryzen", during its New Horizon summit on December 13, 2016 and introduced Ryzen 1000 series processors in February 2017, featuring up to 8 cores and 16 threads, which launched on March 2, 2017.

apple could easily have asked. they already did custom GPUs for them.

[Lord Vile]

3 minutes ago, GDRRiley said:

ryzen was a thing in 2016, it was on the drawing board . apple could have easily bought into zen and gotten a better that intel chip sooner.

apple could easily have asked. they already did custom GPUs for them.

Zen wasn't launched until 2017, AMD likely didn't have any good samples and they were still a way off Intel. 

[GDRRiley]

7 minutes ago, Lord Vile said:

Zen wasn't launched until 2017, AMD likely didn't have any good samples and they were still a way off Intel. 

really? it launched like first 2 months of 2017. amd had samples back to mid to early 2016.

they really weren't bad.

[DrMacintosh]

On 11/26/2020 at 7:13 AM, Ankh Tech said:

no matter what, arm will not, never, replace x86.

I think there has been a historical trend with statements like that. They are usually wrong. 

[Lord Vile]

5 minutes ago, GDRRiley said:

really? it launched like first 2 months of 2017. amd had samples back to mid to early 2016.

they really weren't bad.

Very early engineering samples at best nothing close to a finished product where they could make a convincing argument to someone like apple who'd be ordering tens of millions of units. 

[GDRRiley]

1 minute ago, Lord Vile said:

Very early engineering samples at best nothing close to a finished product where they could make a convincing argument to someone like apple who'd be ordering tens of millions of units. 

your understanding of engineering samples is so dam broken. its for 3 things, show how this chip is doing, program bios and other low level code, making sure your hardware design works.

wtf do you think apple gets when they chose to stick in a 1067G6 or whatever. they get samples of those chips 3-6 months beforehand.

[whm1974]

The impression that I am getting from this Topic by the OP and Others, is that almost the entire Market for PCs will Jump Enmass over to the ARM SoC based Macs... Nevermind that this will not happen at all.

[GDRRiley]

20 minutes ago, whm1974 said:

The impression that I am getting from this Topic by the OP and Others, is that almost the entire Market for PCs will Jump Enmass over to the ARM SoC based Macs... Nevermind that this will not happen at all.

they won't swtich and even among some mac users the switch would be hard. For my work with a mac I need x86 and so do most of my co workers in my department. We are deploying to X86 hardware.

[whm1974]

7 minutes ago, GDRRiley said:

they won't swtich and even among some mac users the switch would be hard. For my work with a mac I need x86 and so do most of my co workers in my department. We are deploying to X86 hardware.

So Apple will be selling Intel based Macs for quite awhile yet?

[Jeppes]

On 12/6/2020 at 11:25 PM, whm1974 said:

What do you Mean Desktop Applications? I like to see someone try to do Photoshop or GIMP on a Cell Phone. Maybe CAD or 3D Rendering.

 

What price Smartphones are speaking of here? If I was a Betting Man, I would bet you that most people own an Android phone and not a pricey Apple iPhone.

If it works with arm mac, it works with the phone. Phones are computers and can easily support external displays if you want them to do so. But I understand why they wont do it as they want to sell AppleTV:s and phone-paced desktops too.

[whm1974]

6 minutes ago, Jeppes said:

If it works with arm mac, it works with the phone. Phones are computers and can easily support external displays if you want them to do so. But I understand why they wont do it as they want to sell AppleTV:s and phone-paced desktops too.

And what is Performance of this Phone Turned Desktop? I'm sure that a Real Desktop will still out perform a Phone.

[Jeppes]

5 minutes ago, whm1974 said:

And what is Performance of this Phone Turned Desktop? I'm sure that a Real Desktop will still out perform a Phone.

Of course it will but most people dont need a fast pc. Apple A13 gets 1300 in Geekbench 5 single core while a14 gets about 1600. Its not a huge gap. I guess this is just another thing like mouse support on ipad where dinosaurs hold things back and act against common sense for a few years.

 

And to add m1 macbook pro was 1600 and mac mini 1750 in Geekbench 5 single core.

[whm1974]

2 hours ago, Jeppes said:

Of course it will but most people dont need a fast pc. Apple A13 gets 1300 in Geekbench 5 single core while a14 gets about 1600. Its not a huge gap. I guess this is just another thing like mouse support on ipad where dinosaurs hold things back and act against common sense for a few years.

 

And to add m1 macbook pro was 1600 and mac mini 1750 in Geekbench 5 single core.

What do you mean by "dinosaurs"?

[Video Beagle]

On 12/6/2020 at 9:46 AM, Amias said:

 Apple has made it clear it does not like free software.

WTF are you on about?

 

What "free software" does Apple not "like"?

On my not M1 Macs, I have free software made for macs, made for windows, and made for unix all installed nice and fine.

Reports show that if I were to get an M1, all the software I currently use would be running just fine, if not better, than it does on my present systems.

 

I use programs written in Python and PERL (written by a friend for me) that work on his windows where he makes them and my macs where I run them.

I can run software from the biggest companies on the planet, to ones written by a single hobbiest programmer.

 

What "free software" are you talking about?

[Riccardo Cagnasso]

 

 

ditto