m1 Apple M1 = the rest of us are living in the stone age!?

[WhitetailAni]

Just now, papajo said:

dude this entire topic is mainly about apple, with the person I was talking to and you quoted me I was discussing apple developer IDs and cost of distribution why would I talk about anything else than apple? 

Because Apple isn't the only company in the universe, and we've been discussing other companies in the context of Apple.

[Ankh Tech]

9 hours ago, LAwLz said:

Geekbench isn't biased towards ARM

Yeah, the only biased benchmark is userbenchmark

[LAwLz]

8 hours ago, papajo said:

because you say so? 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closed_platform

 

Look at the table in the middle of the article. 

 

Mind that the "Demand side" where macos and ios is labeled as "open" means that end users can buy this without the need of a special contract or license. 

 

Supply side means that a company can/want provide it's products services to an end user or 3rd party without the needing a pre-order or special contract. 

 

the other two categories are the ones we are talking about and it is labeled as closed. 

You have moved the goalpost.

First you said MacOS was closed, but now you are trying to argue that Macs are a closed platform. Two different things.

 

I would argue that MacOS is more open than Windows because of things such as more components being open source, as well as it being POSIX compliant.

The four different aspects of an "open" platform that students from Harvard put forth are just one of many ways of measuring "openness". To me as a user, I'd value the OS being open source more than "can a business legally make money from this OS".

 

 

8 hours ago, papajo said:

were people ask why macs are a closed ecosystem -NOT IF they are just WHY they are- like there is no rational person that would argue about that it is by definition so, closed IP closed hardware = closed ecosystem) 

There you go again, moving the goalpost.

Your original claim was that MacOS was locked down, which you said here: 

14 hours ago, papajo said:

Yes it is, it not only is but it is a prime example of one in other words when you think about closed OSs MacOS is the first thing that comes into mind lol. 

 

Now you're generalizing the entire Apple product stack and talking about ecosystems rather than the OS.

 

 

 

8 hours ago, papajo said:

Last attempt. 

 

If I want to make a program for windows the only thing I need is programming skills. 

 

If I want to make a program for mac (legally and with support) I need to get a license from apple (which is not just a piece of paper I have to pay and do what I want apple will have a say on my code and its execution) 

This is such a load of bollocks.

If you want to develop for Windows you need programming skills and you need a software license so that you can run your own programs (legally with support). If you also want to distribute your software through Microsoft's store you need a license for that, or you can provide downloads that people can install on their own for free.

 

If you want to develop for MacOS you need programming skills and you need a software license so that you can run your own programs (legally with support). If you also want to distribute your software through Apple's store you need a license for that, or you can provide downloads that people can install on their own for free.

 

There is only one difference between the two and that's that by default most Windows installs (but not all) allows (some types of) programs to be installed from outside their store and without being signed, but you can change those settings.

MacOS by default doesn't allow it but it can be changed in the security and privacy settings. It does not require booting into safemode or something like that.

 

 

  

8 hours ago, papajo said:

If I want to make a piece of hardware for a PC I just need the knowledge and money to produce it. 

 

If I want to make a piece of hardware for a mac I need to get a license from apple (and it doesnt mean because I have the money they will give it to me necessarily by that I mean that it is not a trivial procedure that only needs X amount of money) 

 

So this is the definition of a closed ecosystem. 

 

That is one of the reasons (the main one by far) that apple stuff works "out of the box" 

This is wrong. Since Windows 10, Microsoft requires all drivers to be signed by Microsoft. Same as with MacOS.

 

 

I don't know where you get your info from, but pretty much everything you say is wrong.

[Spindel]

Arguing MacOS is closed and bringing up Windows as a shining example of openness is a retarded argument. 

 

Windows is just as closed as MacOS (and as others have pointed out I would probably consider MacOS sliiiiiiightly more open than Windows). 

 

If you value openness you either run a Linux flavor (that is not Android) or FreeBSD.

[Obioban]

10 hours ago, papajo said:

Is it in the appstore? it is signed, apple gets cuts. 

 

Is it not in the appstore? It is unsigned apple gets no cuts users need to disable security features to run your program apple may go after you to get a cut eitherway unless you make crums then probably I assume they wouldnt bother.... 

meh thats just for appearances mostly what they really care is to get their cut that's the main reason the implement such restrictions. 

You just don't know what you're talking about. Some prominent examples of apps that are signed but are not in the App Store:

Adobe Photoshop

Adobe Illustrator 

Google Chrome 

Fortnight

FireFox 

VLC

Handbrake 

Transmission 

 

These are not small players or low usage apps. They are not breaking any rules (or laws). 

 

I mention Transmission because it was the sole example I know of of Apple remotely disabling an app. They got hacked and, without their knowledge, malware inserted in a version update that went out to users over their built in software update engine. Apple remotely disabled all infected versions (and then lifted that for future, infection free versions). Transmission is a torrenting app and is not on the App Store. It's kind of a perfect case study in why the signing system they having going on is great. 

[papajo]

6 hours ago, Spindel said:

Arguing MacOS is closed and bringing up Windows as a shining example of openness is a retarded argument. 

 

Windows is just as closed as MacOS (and as others have pointed out I would probably consider MacOS sliiiiiiightly more open than Windows). 

 

If you value openness you either run a Linux flavor (that is not Android) or FreeBSD.

m8 not discussion about that, i am sick and tired of arguing if the eart is flat. 

 

just use google or ask a computer science teacher 

 

Closeness Apple>> Microsoft>Google>GNU/linux

 

Take it or leave it like it or hated it is as such by nature and definition it's not opinion.

[Spindel]

Who ever at Microsoft that has managed to convince people on tech forums that Windows is an "open" platform deserves a pay raise. 

[papajo]

3 hours ago, Obioban said:

You just don't know what you're talking about. Some prominent examples of apps that are signed but are not in the App Store:

Adobe Photoshop

Adobe Illustrator 

Google Chrome 

Fortnight

FireFox 

VLC

Handbrake 

Transmission 

 

These are not small players or low usage apps. They are not breaking any rules (or laws). 

 

I mention Transmission because it was the sole example I know of of Apple remotely disabling an app. They got hacked and, without their knowledge, malware inserted in a version update that went out to users over their built in software update engine. Apple remotely disabled all infected versions (and then lifted that for future, infection free versions). Transmission is a torrenting app and is not on the App Store. It's kind of a perfect case study in why the signing system they having going on is great. 

VLC in on the appstore as well as firefox and everything else excluding fortninte,handbrake and Transmission.

 

Fortnight got kicked because they didnt want to give apple their 30% cut 

 

 

Handbrake and transmission are installed to your system not as programs/executables/applications (.app) but you get them as .dmg files which are disk image files in that way you dont trigger gatekeeper for example and apple doesnt bother because they are free open source and well known apps I presume. 

 

Now for adobe products in particular some are on some appstores (e.g photoshop is available for ipad only) etc.. Adobe is a more or less 100 billion dollar company and co existed with apple since decades ago... so I dot know what exact agreements they have they surely have "Special" ones 

 

[papajo]

1 hour ago, Spindel said:

Who ever at Microsoft that has managed to convince people on tech forums that Windows is an "open" platform deserves a pay raise. 

m8 it is not a matter of convincing it is a matter of basic knowledge. 

 

Do I need to convince you that 1+1=2 ? 

 

Then I do not need to convince you that Microsoft is more open than apple. 

 

For pete's sake Only apple makes apple computers for example... how many companies make microsoft computers? 

 

you need a license id to develop programs for Apple, you need a potato pc (doesnt even have to have windows)  to develop and distribute programs for microsoft. 

 

and so on and so forth. 

 

Also I did not say that windows are totally open, there are many things that are closed such as windows source code microsoft products such as office etc. 

 

What I said is that Microsoft is much more open than Apple.

[Spotty]

Thread cleaned and locked. It's obvious whatever constructive discussion that could be had here has long since passed and the last few pages have been nothing more than going around in circles and arguing just for the sake of arguing.