Rare punishes streamers who called them out for not stopping harassment from their partners

[cj09beira]

2 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

except they are coming to their stream and probably social media also and they can make new accounts and they doxxed their address

on stream its quite easy to block any words you want, on social media there is always the option to report and block

[SpaceGhostC2C]

It is strange that harassment complaints lead to partnership termination, while things such as

Spoiler

Lazar, who had stopped streaming Sea of Thieves regularly by this point, added fuel to this theory, negatively responding to the news of the bans on stream (which you can watch here). In this rant he called the couple “little bitches” for “trying to get people banned from video games,” before addressing Rocco’s creators directly with the following outburst: “Suck my fucking dick, I’ll say it to you, bitch. Suck my dick. If I see you at sea, I will fucking silently shit down your throat and not sink your ship, and there’s really nothing you can do about it as long as I don’t say anything.”

do not. Makes you wonder what kind of partnership policy is this company following.

 

 

@suicidalfranco: I'm afraid your posts in this thread, while may seem clever in your head, have the maturity of an underage paramecium. "Grow some thicker skin" is not an answer to death and rape threats issued to your physical address, and "it should be harder to doxx you" is just mindless victim blaming (especially for people running a business). Crimes remain crimes regardless of how easy the circumstances made it to commit them, or to get away with them. It's not even necessary to explain these things. 

[Master Delta Chief]

3 hours ago, suicidalfranco said:

or you know... just grow a pair? Stop being so thin skinned? 

This is the same kind of crappy argument I've been seeing for ages and it's simply the worst. Yes, you could be the kind of person who could just ignore the toxicity from people, but is everyone like that? No, not at all. Combating this kind of behaviour in a effective and proper manner should be investigated rather than going always for the 'simple' and sometimes even 'dumb' proposals like the one you are giving. 

[Nanners]

A lot of what is in the article are bits and pieces taken out of context or that aren't even related.

 

A lot of comments here are based on the assumption that the article is the whole story and truthfull, but it isn't.

 

"If I see you at sea, I will fucking silently shit down your throat and not sink your ship, and there’s really nothing you can do about it as long as I don’t say anything.”

 

Is one of those things taken way out of context.

[spartaman64]

Just now, Nanners said:

A lot of what is in the article are bits and pieces taken out of context or that aren't even related.

 

A lot of comments here are based on the assumption that the article is the whole story and truthfull, but it isn't.

 

"If I see you at sea, I will fucking silently shit down your throat and not sink your ship, and there’s really nothing you can do about it as long as I don’t say anything.”

 

Is one of those things taken way out of context.

yeah the article is all over the place but I think the important part is the witch hunting by the partnered streamer which would be a big no no with the game that I have experience with. also the doxxing is really scary

[Nanners]

"The couple had been the target of misogynistic and ableist abuse for five months at the time of reporting these issues to Rare, after becoming entangled in a harassment campaign from fans of the popular Sea of Thieves streamer and partner Pace22."

 

Nowhere does it state that Pace himself participated or condoned a witch hunt or the doxxing in that bit or the rest of the article.

They keep referring to other people who did this and they're not saying Pace did.

 

I played plenty of SoT aswell and just like any other online game there are people who take things way to far.

 

Say some person harassed me and they are a fan of whatever streamer, doesn't mean that streamer is to blame for the actions of that person.

[Mark Kaine]

9 hours ago, Damprol said:

Can someone give me a TLDR? I don't even know who Rare is.

some online games have an extremely toxic fanbase, and that's somehow the fault of the game makers. Also yt was a mistake.

 

 

[spartaman64]

1 minute ago, Mark Kaine said:

some online games have an extremely toxic fanbase, and that's somehow the fault of the game makers. Also yt was a mistake.

 

 

 

9 hours ago, Damprol said:

Can someone give me a TLDR? I don't even know who Rare is.

thats not it at all a streamer that's PARTNERED with rare witch hunted another partnered streamer. and the other streamer asked rare to do something about it and rare did nothing and when the streamer went public with the info rare removed their partnership instead.

[Mark Kaine]

Also why are we talking about Rare as an independent entity, they're 100% owned by Microsoft corp.

[Master Disaster]

3 hours ago, suicidalfranco said:

cry me a river: random guy on the internet knows where i live, so scared, much worry, wow

You do realise that streamers have literally been shot and killed by police officers responding to fake calls made by people who wanted to hurt them, right?

 

Its no fucking joke that the internet knows your address. Bad shit can happen, will happen and has already happened.

[spartaman64]

2 minutes ago, Mark Kaine said:

Also why are we talking about Rare as an independent entity, they're 100% owned by Microsoft corp.

because its probably rare employees making the decisions here not microsoft employees

[Nanners]

It's more likely the streamer lost partnership due to other reasons then anything mentioned here.

 

The burden of proof lies with the accuser not with the accused.

So far there has been no proof of either Pace going on a witch hunt or be affiliated to the alleged with hunt.

 

Neither has there been proof that Rare discontinued the partnership in response to said streamer going public with this story.
 

The only "proof" given in this article were bits and pieces cut out of context and time to create a story.

A story to create traffic to their website.

Allegedly.

[spartaman64]

1 minute ago, Nanners said:

It's more likely the streamer lost partnership due to other reasons then anything mentioned here.

 

The burden of proof lies with the accuser not with the accused.

So far there has been no proof of either Pace going on a witch hunt or be affiliated to the alleged with hunt.

 

Neither has there been proof that Rare discontinued the partnership in response to said streamer going public with this story.
 

The only "proof" given in this article were bits and pieces cut out of context and time to create a story.

A story to create traffic to their website.

Allegedly.

him bringing them up on his stream isnt proof?

5 minutes ago, gabrielcarvfer said:

TL;DR: don't want to get exposed? Don't expose yourself.

 

I'm pretty sure MSFT and the streaming service would have already done something if it was that bad.

yeah im sure everyone that ever been doxxed it was all their fault 

[Master Disaster]

1 minute ago, Nanners said:

Allegedly.

One of the best words in the English language. It allows anybody to say almost anything and not have to worry about the consequences

[suicidalfranco]

33 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

You do realise that streamers have literally been shot and killed by police officers responding to fake calls made by people who wanted to hurt them, right?

 

Its no fucking joke that the internet knows your address. Bad shit can happen, will happen and has already happened.

I remember it being a third party getting shot and killed because the streamer gave another address out

[sof006]

5 hours ago, suicidalfranco said:

or you know... just grow a pair? Stop being so thin skinned? 

Thats what everyone always says "Oh just deal with it" but have you actually been in that situation before? Its not as simple as "Just ignore it".

[Spotty]

This is the statement from "Rocco" about the alleged abuse they have received (the PVE player complaining in the Kotaku article)

https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1srasv1

 

Something that stood out to me. Pace's team and "Rocco" apparently met at a convention/competition for the game. Apparently they were friendly towards each other. "Rocco" apparently got annoyed that when they met in person during the event Pace and his team referred to the streamer Rocco (who I believe is a female and identifies as a female??) with female pronouns (she/her). Apparently Rocco plays with a puppet on stream they use as a prop and the 'character' of the puppet prop is a male and the streamer behind the Rocco twitch channel claims she(?) was victimised because the other streamers referred to her (the streamer) directly instead of talking to her prop puppet.

 

I think it's pretty ridiculous that Rocco's example of Pace harassing them directly is that he referred to her as a she instead of referring to her as a puppet.

 

According to "Rocco" they received some abusive messages in their twitch chat and they assumed that it must be people who are also fans of Pace/Pace's crew (because some of those people apparently had access to the Pace twitch chat emotes or were followers of Pace's channel, though with Pace being one of the largest SoT streamers it's not hard to believe that anyone looking at other SoT streams could also be a sub to Pace). Other than the fact that some (an unknown number? one?) of the accounts who came in to Rocco's chat that said inappropriate things had access to his emotes there's nothing to suggest that Pace was involved or incited people to harass them. In this day and age where everything is online, and for a full time streamer, if they encouraged their audience to harass another streamer there would be a clip or recording of it somewhere.

 

From that point on Rocco went to Rare multiple times and kept trying to get Pace and his friends banned from the game. Pace and his crew are full time streamers who at the time streamed exclusively SoT, so Rocco was trying to essentially get them fired because Rocco was angry that Pace/crew referred to her as she/her instead of talking to her puppet and because she received messages from some ass who was possibly also a follower of his channel.

Rocco then went on a public rant demanding that Pace/crew be banned from the game and continued to make claims about Pace/crew. Pace denied any involvement in harassment and demanded an apology.

 

I don't doubt that they as a twitch streamer received harassment in their chat. I'm sure that's something many twitch streamers have dealt with at some point. I'm not saying that that's okay, but that doesn't mean that it's the fault of other streamers either.

I don't see anything that shows Pace/crew inciting harassment against Rocco or encouraging his twitch chat to harass them. Considering the rants Rocco has gone on about Pace/crew if that existed I'm sure they would have included it and have proof of it.

Reading Rocco's comments it honestly just seems like "Rocco" has a vendetta against Pace/crew.

[Master Disaster]

9 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

I remember it being a third party getting shot and killed because the streamer gave another address out

It doesn't really matter who it was, the fact is it happened.

[Nanners]

2 minutes ago, Spotty said:

This is the statement from "Rocco" about the alleged abuse they have received (the PVE player complaining in the Kotaku article)

https://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1srasv1

 

Something that stood out to me. Pace's team and "Rocco" apparently met at a convention/competition for the game. Apparently they were friendly towards each other. "Rocco" apparently got annoyed that when they met in person during the event Pace and his team referred to the streamer Rocco (who I believe is a female and identifies as a female??) with female pronouns (she/her). Apparently Rocco plays with a puppet on stream they use as a prop and the 'character' of the puppet prop is a male and the streamer behind the Rocco twitch channel claims she(?) was victimised because the other streamers referred to her (the streamer) directly instead of talking to her prop puppet.

 

I think it's pretty ridiculous that Rocco's example of Pace harassing them directly is that he referred to her as a she instead of referring to her as a puppet.

 

According to "Rocco" they received some abusive messages in their twitch chat and they assumed that it must be people who are also fans of Pace/Pace's crew (because some of those people apparently had access to the Pace twitch chat emotes or were followers of Pace's channel, though with Pace being one of the largest SoT streamers it's not hard to believe that anyone looking at other SoT streams could also be a sub to Pace). Other than the fact that some (an unknown number? one?) of the accounts who came in to Rocco's chat that said inappropriate things had access to his emotes there's nothing to suggest that Pace was involved or incited people to harass them. In this day and age where everything is online, and for a full time streamer, if they encouraged their audience to harass another streamer there would be a clip or recording of it somewhere.

 

From that point on Rocco went to Rare multiple times and kept trying to get Pace and his friends banned from the game. Pace and his crew are full time streamers who at the time streamed exclusively SoT, so Rocco was trying to essentially get them fired because Rocco was angry that Pace/crew referred to her as she/her instead of talking to her puppet and because she received messages from some ass who was possibly also a follower of his channel.

Rocco then went on a public rant demanding that Pace/crew be banned from the game and continued to make claims about Pace/crew. Pace denied any involvement in harassment and demanded an apology.

 

I don't doubt that they as a twitch streamer received harassment in their chat. I'm sure that's something many twitch streamers have dealt with at some point. I'm not saying that that's okay, but that doesn't mean that it's the fault of other streamers either.

I don't see anything that shows Pace/crew inciting harassment against Rocco or encouraging his twitch chat to harass them. Considering the rants Rocco has gone on about Pace/crew if that existed I'm sure they would have included it and have proof of it.

Reading Rocco's comments it honestly just seems like "Rocco" has a vendetta against Pace/crew.

 

So Rocco just screwed herself and lost her affiliation cause of her own actions and tries to cast the blame on Pace and Summit.

Allegedly.

 

[suicidalfranco]

4 minutes ago, Master Disaster said:

It doesn't really matter who it was, the fact is it happened.

It happened but it also happened in the US where law enforcement is a bit too trigger happy compared to the rest of the world. So won't even count it as the norm

[spartaman64]

9 minutes ago, Spotty said:

snip

ok its a bit more complicated than i expected. i wish there is a bit more explanation about pace's teammates because from my experience in my game there could be legitimate reasons why certain people should not be allowed to participate 

that guy wouldnt be allowed to participate in official game events in the game i play

[Mark Kaine]

1 hour ago, Spotty said:

I think it's pretty ridiculous that Rocco's example of Pace harassing them directly is that he referred to her as a she instead of referring to her as a puppet.

this is all this is this really all about.

 

Being offended for being offended sake... (usually referred to as"attention whoring") it's pretty unsurprising a MS subsidiary wouldn't want to play ball here... 

 

 

I also question how this is "tech news" more like"gossip" in my humble opinion...

 

[Derangel]

2 hours ago, gabrielcarvfer said:

TL;DR: don't want to get exposed? Don't expose yourself.

 

I'm pretty sure MSFT and the streaming service would have already done something if it was that bad.

 

Don't get exposed? Do you know how easy to is to find people's information these days? Especially if that person is even remotely known. You don't even have to do anything wrong yourself for your information to be out there.

 

MS wouldn't handle this themselves. It would be up to Rare's community team. As for the "streaming service". HA! No chance. Twitch will prioritize making their big partners happy over anything else. They only care about ad revenue and refuse to punish big streamers for anything, unless it becomes unprofitable to continue ignoring it.

[Nanners]

"Twitch will prioritize making their big partners happy over anything else. They only care about ad revenue and refuse to punish big streamers for anything, unless it becomes unprofitable to continue ignoring it."

 

Did anyone say Dr. Disrespect?

 

Also Rare handled it quite well, dropping affiliation with someone who falsely accuses another affiliate.

[Spotty]

1 hour ago, spartaman64 said:

that guy wouldnt be allowed to participate in official game events in the game i play

What's that comment from? Is that comment from someone associated with Pace directed at other SoT players/streamers?

I've received plenty of similar comments from other people in games before, including SoT. Often it's the annoying shouty 12 year old kids on xbox (SoT is crossplay PC & xbox). I just mute and report them. Kids being stupid isn't anything new. I really doubt that a full time streamer or "partner" will be making comments like that, but if they are then that should be addressed.

 

 

1 hour ago, spartaman64 said:

i wish there is a bit more explanation about pace's teammates because from my experience in my game there could be legitimate reasons why certain people should not be allowed to participate 

Beerslol (someone who has played with pace) was banned from the game after Rocco's complaints. Don't know exactly what those complaints were about... In that post from Rocco, Rocco accuses Beerslol of sharing a SoT community discord server with one/some of the people who harassed Rocco on Discord or Twitch. They don't provide any proof to support their claim, but they're basically just like "Huh, isn't it weird that one of Pace's teammates was also in the same server as some of the people who acted like a dick in my chat. Weird, huh?" implying that implicates Pace/his crew in the harassment.

 

Quote

My partner and myself had a meeting with Jon MacFarlane about various issues, including Pace22 and his Sea of Champions teammates, ChoptheBone and more specifically, Beerslol. We thought it was really inappropriate that Pace22 was allowed to invite him into an official Sea of Thieves event, when Beerslol (FKA DippingSauce) is a known problem in the community. Chances are a lot of you reading this either have your own story involving him, or a friend that does. Beerslol frequents different discords with a lot of the players that have written “get rAAAAAAA*ed Pace22” to Rocco, as well as some of the people who have caused issues in our twitch chat. Weird.

 

I've been in a few SoT Discord servers, probably still am in a few that I've forgotten about. I'm sure at some point I've shared a discord server with someone who has said something inappropriate to a SoT twitch streamer in their twitch chat. Doesn't mean that I'm involved in it or that I would encourage it.

 

Rare has banned Beerslol from partner events, so there must have been more going on that hasn't been covered. The Kotaku article only focuses on Summit1G and Pace22 though, and Rocco's post really only focuses on Pace with brief mention of Beerslol only in association with Pace.

 

 

Rocco "snapped" and made a public rant on their twitch channel complaining about Pace/crew and accusing Pace of harassment and abuse. Caused quite a bit of drama and stirred up shit. It's not impossible that rants like that from one streamer about another could have caused some fans of Rocco's chat to go in to Pace's channel and harass him - Something that Rocco is complaining about happening to them. Keep in mind that Rocco "snapped" and publicly ranted about Pace on their twitch channel and caused drama because that's going to matter later...

 

In response to Rocco's public rant accusing Pace of harassment and vilifying him, Pace went in to the SoT partner discord channel and demanded an apology from Rocco and said that he and his viewers had nothing to do with any harassment and he didn't want Rocco saying bad things about him and his viewers on Rocco's stream. Pace wanted Rocco to publicly retract their statement. Then apparently an argument broke out in the public area of the chat between them (conveniently Rocco claims they lost their screenshots/logs of the conversation), at which point Rare mods stepped in and told them to take the matter private to discuss and not public. Rocco, who just publicly ranted about Pace on their stream, was then "livid" that Rare didn't show them any empathy and didn't apparently do more to attempt to discourage Pace from discussing it publicly.

Quote

There was a lot of back and forth between Pace22 and us. We were furious this was the route he chose after I’d tried to get through to him in so many ways. He refused to claim any responsibility or even acknowledge that the treatment I’d been receiving was inappropriate. He considered this nothing but “troll bait.” At the bare minimum all he had to say was “I am disgusted you would think I’d associate with people like that. That is horrible.” Apparently it’s on me that I reacted at all. “Troll bait” is “locker room talk” is all a big fat cop out.

While all of this is unraveling, community manager Chayification interrupted the argument to say something to the effect of “Hey guys, take it to the DMs”. No offer of mediation, no attempts to discourage any fighting in the discord, no empathy towards the situation as a whole. I was livid.

 

So Rocco is feeling victimised that Pace responded to Rocco's public rant on twitch about him by posting in a public section of the SoT partners discord channel and that Rare didn't do more to stop Pace from defending himself against Rocco's accusations made in their twitch rant.

 

Quote

June 29 2020- We had a meeting with Jon McFarlane and Joe Neate. We were under the impression we would be discussing the incident of the past weekend, and thought it was a discussion to help them figure out a solution. We were almost immediately told that they were “not interested in talking badly about Pace22”. We still tried to express a lot of what you’ve read above. I expressed how upset I was that nobody from Rare reached out to see if I was even okay after everything that went down. I keep thinking I’m letting that bother me too much, but at the end of the day I gotta say it’s really disheartening nobody even said, even off record in a discord call “hey, its really messed up someone is writing sick things and tagging another streamer. That’s weird.” Cause. It's. WEIRD. Can we all just agree that it’s weird? IT’S WEIRD!!! There’s no need for weird toxic misogyny in gaming. Or anywhere. It’s WEIRD.

Rocco is complaining that Rare didn't check that Rocco was okay after they were the victim after being called out by another streamer... Even though Rocco was the one who started it by publicly calling out Pace and ranting about him and accusing Pace of harassment on Rocco's public twitch stream.

 

There's quite a bit of hypocrisy. 

 

And this is how Rocco ends their twitter post rant about Pace/crew.

Quote

Harassment, abuse, and intimidation of all forms need to be rooted out as quickly and efficiently as possible whenever and wherever it’s found. We all deserve a space that is free of needless toxic behavior and words that can adversely affect anyone that comes to this amazing world of adventure. We should be able to enjoy a safe, positive gaming world.

 

Yeah, free from toxicity. Like ranting about other streamers on stream, accusing them of harassment, vilifying them, trying to get them removed from the partner program, writing twitter posts ranting about them, harassing them, and even going to press to publish an article slamming other streamers and making unproven, unfounded accusations against them for harassment.

Remind me... Who is the toxic one again?

 

 

I'd also like to point out that the twitter post from Rocco ranting about Pace is from July, and the stuff about Summit1G Kotaku mentions is from 2018 and maybe 2019. Yet for some reason Kotaku is writing an article about it in October...? Why?