Rare punishes streamers who called them out for not stopping harassment from their partners

[spartaman64]

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Responding to a request for comment, a Rare spokesperson states, “We take all complaints seriously and we treat all our players fairly. All customer service complaints are treated with the same level of seriousness regardless of where they originate, or what the topic at hand is. We review every ticket thoroughly for evidence of behaviour that violates our community Code of Conduct and take action wherever evidence is found.” However, a significant number of streamers and players would disagree.

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On July 14, 2020, some prominent players spoke out against Rare’s management of the community. The couple behind the Twitch streaming personality Rocco—a glove-puppet cat who streams Sea of Thieves, with one half of the couple playing the game and the other puppeteering and staying in character as Rocco—issued a statement on Twitter, stating in part that they “experienced targeted harassment.” The couple had been very invested in the game and even have their own Easter Egg in it. In the statement, the Sea of Thieves partners detailed their problems with Rare’s handling of their experiences of harassment, claiming that Rare was dismissive of the issues they had begun to raise in May 2020 regarding toxicity within the community.

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The couple had been the target of misogynistic and ableist abuse for five months at the time of reporting these issues to Rare, after becoming entangled in a harassment campaign from fans of the popular Sea of Thieves streamer and partner Pace22. Pace22 built his audience on highlighting the game’s potential for PvP, broadcasting his daring heists and server takedowns to an audience of thousands. He’s commonly among the most-viewed streamers in the Sea of Thieves directory on Twitch, and has as a result become one of the figureheads of the game’s PvP community, along with Lazar.

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“I have screenshots of [people] saying everything from, ‘Give me your OnlyFans’, ‘Get Raped’, and, ‘Are you typing with your little stub’.” says Rocco’s puppeteer, who requested anonymity out of concerns about harassment. “You’ve then done the span of [threatening] sexual abuse all the way to making fun of disabilities. It’s interesting to see them do the mental gymnastics of being like, ‘No, this game was built on toxicity, this game was built on telling people to ‘Get raped’.’ It’s like no, it wasn’t, but Rare never told you otherwise.”

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To address this situation, Rocco’s creators initially tried to handle things privately, contacting both Rare and Pace22 over email to talk about these accounts. Dissatisfied with how their conversations with Rare were going, and frustrated by Pace22’s lack of response, the couple eventually broke character on stream, acknowledging the issues that they had been having publicly.

In response to this, Pace22 vehemently denied any responsibility for the abuse and demanded a public apology from Rocco’s creators in the Official Partner Discord for, “Dragging my community and myself though the mud on her stream.” In the logs we’ve seen from the Partner Discord, a Rare community manager stepped in on multiple occasions, but not with any intention of speaking to the two partners and trying to resolve their differences, instead telling them to take the argument to the DMs. This interaction has since drawn criticism.

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Lazar, who had stopped streaming Sea of Thieves regularly by this point, added fuel to this theory, negatively responding to the news of the bans on stream (which you can watch here). In this rant he called the couple “little bitches” for “trying to get people banned from video games,” before addressing Rocco’s creators directly with the following outburst: “Suck my fucking dick, I’ll say it to you, bitch. Suck my dick. If I see you at sea, I will fucking silently shit down your throat and not sink your ship, and there’s really nothing you can do about it as long as I don’t say anything.”

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The harassment increased over the weekend of July 18. The couple tells me they were doxxed, and their place of work and their work phone number was passed around a group of individuals who tried to intimidate them further. A number of threats were made to them and their boss over their work phone, with the harassers threatening to get that “Rocco bitch,” and stating their intent to “pay them back” for the bans. The couple eventually involved the police, informing them of what was going on. The couple also eventually lashed out at Rare for their inability to step in sooner. This took the form of messages to the executive producer Joe Neate and head of video and creator engagement Jon McFarlane, with whom the partners had previously been on good terms, where the couple referred to them as “monsters” and told them about threats they were facing. This is the action that has subsequently been used to justify their removal from the Partner Programme.

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“We spoke up about legitimate harassment and have been blacklisted, unfollowed, nobody will talk to us,” they allege. “We were literally having messages with people that were going back and forth, really friendly, to suddenly really cold, corporate copy and paste responses, and then dark.”

After Rocco’s creators came out with their statement, a number of other streamers left the Partner Programme in solidarity with the couple, including Jason Sulli, Carrillo, and Gullible Gambit. These were streamers who had built their community around streaming Sea of Thieves.

source: https://kotaku.com/sea-of-thieves-streamers-quit-the-game-in-protest-again-1845238513

 

Sorry for the ton of quotes its a long article and I've left most of it out so I recommend reading the article for the full story. I'm not a sea of thieves player but I see a lot of these themes echoed in a mmo that I play like the pvp vs pve. Though to my game's publisher's credit they do take harassment much more seriously than rare and a partnered streamer harassing people would not fly with them.

 

But in my game there is a lot of hostility from the pvp centric players towards the pve centric players. My gf is pve centric and I'm pvp centric so I make a lot of other pvp centric friends. And a lot of times when the topic of her comes up (and they don't know that she's my gf) their personality completely changes. They become petty and seething with rage and call her names and I'm just sitting there shocked at the fact the cool chill person I was talking to a moment before is completely gone. That's when I usually mention that shes my gf and that's usually enough for them to say well that's awkward and then I ask what made them respond that way. Then I try to dispel some of their misconception that they picked up from the other members of the pvp community. That is usually enough to make most of them realize that they shouldn't believe everything they hear and that pve players just want to play the game in the way they enjoy. But there is always some that my message doesn't reach and they now direct their anger at me also even though we were chill with each other a minute earlier. 

 

A lot of this anger seems to come from other pve players doing something to them and then they attribute that to all pve players. One time my gf was being griefed by someone I would consider an acquaintance at the time and I asked him why is he doing this and he said she got him banned from a discord. After talking to my gf it was apparently the 2 other people she was grinding with that got him banned and when I told him this he believed me but said it doesn't matter all of them are the same. I guess people will always find ways to discriminate against others.

[CarlBar]

I think i speak for the majority when i say there's absolutely no way this is acceptable.If any of the offending parties are from the UK they're also breaking the law. But from my PoV thats more of a happy hapstance than anything else. In general i'm a big be,liver that trying to treat the internet the same way as existing mediums is a terrible idea.But there does have to be points at which things cross a line where you have to say you can't ignore it either. And this kind of abuse is one such case.

 

The toxicity between PVE and PVP is ultimately rooted in two factors. The first is that people hate it when their way of playing is disrupted, and the second is that with a very few exceptions most games balance with PVE first and as a result PVP suffers in those games because of it, and that leads most PVE vs PVP arguments to devolve into heated arguments that are ultimately expressions of worry about the direction of the game and their ability to continue to play the game the way they enjoy. This longstanding cross game, cross platform reality is the perfect breeding ground for masses of hostility, and as the side that usually gets the worse end of the deal PVP'rs tend to be the most "angry", (I'd also suspect that PVP being a more aggressive combative system in most games also attracts the aggressively inclined).

 

Of course there are some genuine nasty characters and the inevitable younger generation which includes it's fair share of schoolyard bullies. But as someone who was extensively bullied throughout school and collage i don't hold that against them, there's a lot of reasons it happens but the bulk boil down to things people mature out of. People screwup a lot when they're growing up and for some people that screwup involves being an asshat. The ones that never grow out of it of course are a different matter, but those are rarer. Dosen't make it right of course, or mean that it dosen't hurt and we adults shouldn't do what we can about it.  Malice and idiocy may have the same end effects, but they're very different in many other important ways.

[SeriousDad69]

What is Rare exactly supposed to do in this situation? From my perspective if some people that watch my stream/youtube/whatever go harass you without me explicitly telling them to, it's not my fault. I'm not their master, they have free will and me trying to stop them will probably just make it worse.

Some people are just FAR too soft for the public internet. They are the people that are going to ruin it for the people that can handle it with privacy destroying measures like requiring your real name on accounts. Just block and move on and ignore and move on. Once trolls know they can get to you, you've already lost and should probably just close up shop because you're just a lolcow for them at that point.

[spartaman64]

1 minute ago, SeriousDad69 said:

What is Rare exactly supposed to do in this situation? From my perspective if some people that watch my stream/youtube/whatever go harass you without me explicitly telling them to, it's not my fault. I'm not their master, they have free will and me trying to stop them will probably just make it worse.

Some people are just FAR too soft for the public internet. They are the people that are going to ruin it for the people that can handle it with privacy destroying measures like requiring your real name on accounts. Just block and move on or ignore and move on. Once trolls know they can get to you, you've already lost and should probably just close up shop because you're just a lolcow for them at that point.

really if you are a big streamer and you pull up some other streamer's page and say i really hate these guys they fucked with me you dont think the people who watch you will go harass them?

[SeriousDad69]

1 minute ago, spartaman64 said:

really if you are a big streamer and you pull up some other streamer's page and say i really hate these guys they fucked with me you dont think the people who watch you will go harass them?

Unless there's some rule against hating someone or pulling their stream up on your stream, there's still nothing for Rare to do. Maybe they could have some extremely vague rule against harassment and just use it to ban whoever they want like on Reddit?

[Joduko]

Can someone give me a TLDR? I don't even know who Rare is.

[S w a t s o n]

31 minutes ago, Damprol said:

Can someone give me a TLDR? I don't even know who Rare is.

[Taf the Ghost]

26 minutes ago, Damprol said:

Can someone give me a TLDR? I don't even know who Rare is.

Makers of the Game. Basically, looks like some community vs community harassment. The couple that is getting harassed also comes off really poorly. They have a legal issue. Yes, it's horrible, but the Game Company isn't the proper authority to deal with the issue. There's also community strife over PvP vs PvE aspects.

 

From Kotaku's angle, this is clearly a backdoor way of getting Rare/MS to implement more policies to their liking. This really doesn't have anything to do with the parties listed.

[CarlBar]

3 hours ago, SeriousDad69 said:

Unless there's some rule against hating someone or pulling their stream up on your stream, there's still nothing for Rare to do. Maybe they could have some extremely vague rule against harassment and just use it to ban whoever they want like on Reddit?

 

The streamer who's giving the couple grief is an official partner of rare. Also the abuse is happening primarily through a medium, (the game), that rare control's.Rare absolutely has involvement here.

[suicidalfranco]

or you know... just grow a pair? Stop being so thin skinned? 

[spartaman64]

58 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

or you know... just grow a pair? Stop being so thin skinned? 

Yep why are they so upset at being doxxed so thin skinned

6 hours ago, SeriousDad69 said:

Unless there's some rule against hating someone or pulling their stream up on your stream, there's still nothing for Rare to do. Maybe they could have some extremely vague rule against harassment and just use it to ban whoever they want like on Reddit?

What game doesnt have rules against harassment or sending rape threat and doxxing? Not to mention the partner rules. At least in bdo there's rules against witch hunting other streamers when you are a partner. 3 streamers I think got dropped for breaking that rule

[PhireFase]

6 hours ago, SeriousDad69 said:

Unless there's some rule against hating someone or pulling their stream up on your stream, there's still nothing for Rare to do. Maybe they could have some extremely vague rule against harassment and just use it to ban whoever they want like on Reddit?

Rare could do plenty of things. They could at the very least condemn his actions, and more over stop partnering with him, or ban his account. They are a private entity and can do whatever they want with their online services. It peeves me to no end when people think that companies are bound by the rules that they create. They can change those rules any time they want. They have the ability, but don't have the courage (afraid of losing customers) to do anything. I could point to many Jim Sterling videos showing that video game studios protect people who sexually harass others. This whole situation is sad and angering, but not surprising.

[suicidalfranco]

19 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

Yep why are they so upset at being doxxed so thin skinned

cry me a river: random guy on the internet knows where i live, so scared, much worry, wow

[spartaman64]

1 minute ago, suicidalfranco said:

cry me a river: random guy on the internet knows where i live, so scared, much worry, wow

Ok then tell me your address

[suicidalfranco]

3 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

Ok then tell me your address

figure it out

[spartaman64]

7 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

figure it out

Just as I expected LUL it's always funny to see someone say they are so badass and then when asked to back it up they back out

[Nanners]

Watch summits youtube video where he reacts to this article.

 

I used to watch a lot of summit and pace playing sea of thieves and I can't recall a single moment of harassment or anything of the kind coming from them.

 

More so I remember them going out of their way to dumpster those that did harass or drop racist comments etc.

 

This article is full of nonsense in order to get views.

[suicidalfranco]

11 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

Just as I expected LUL it's always funny to see someone say they are so badass and then when asked to back it up they back out

no, i just don't make it easy. Wanna know where i live? figure it out

[spartaman64]

4 minutes ago, Nanners said:

Snip

yeah I dont really know where the summit part came from. Summit came to the mmo I played once and from what I've heard people had positive interactions with him.

2 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

no, i just don't make it easy. Wanna know where i live? figure it out

You hesitate to tell 1 person who has no desire to do anything to you your address. imagine whats its like for someone with a wife when they have thousands of people who threatened to kill and rape them know their address 

[suicidalfranco]

2 minutes ago, spartaman64 said:

You hesitate to tell 1 person who has no desire to do anything to you your address. imagine whats its like for someone with a wife when they have thousands of people who threatened to kill and rape them know their address 

If someone managed to found out is because they themselves were careless enough to put it all on the internet for everyone to see. I don't hesitate, i'm just not gonna make it easy for you, but you're free to try and find it out

[spartaman64]

3 minutes ago, suicidalfranco said:

If someone managed to found out is because they themselves were careless enough to put it all on the internet for everyone to see. I don't hesitate, i'm just not gonna make it easy for you, but you're free to try and find it out

Nice moving the goal posts 

[PhireFase]

Don't antagonize him, there's nothing to gain.

[CarlBar]

1 hour ago, PhireFase said:

Rare could do plenty of things. They could at the very least condemn his actions, and more over stop partnering with him, or ban his account. They are a private entity and can do whatever they want with their online services. It peeves me to no end when people think that companies are bound by the rules that they create. They can change those rules any time they want. They have the ability, but don't have the courage (afraid of losing customers) to do anything. I could point to many Jim Sterling videos showing that video game studios protect people who sexually harass others. This whole situation is sad and angering, but not surprising.

 

Depends on where they're based. i don't believe rare is based anywhere that has laws against online harassment, but if they where, (or if somthing similar was to happen with another company that is based in such a place), the company could actually be liable if they do nothing about it, (or worse encourage it).

[cj09beira]

doesn't the game have any way of blocking people's messages?, or simply disabling chat?

[spartaman64]

2 minutes ago, cj09beira said:

doesn't the game have any way of blocking people's messages?, or simply disabling chat?

except they are coming to their stream and probably social media also and they can make new accounts and they doxxed their address